[Loiter]

Well whatever you drive - I hope we can all agree that gas engines blow (CO2) and need to go the way of the animals fueling them (extinct).

 

[DonC]

To quote a famous swordsman "you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means". Per wikipedia definition of a Veblen good: The high price makes the goods desirable as status symbols, by way of conspicuous consumption and conspicuous leisure; conversely, a decrease of the prices of Veblen goods would decrease demand for the products

I'm thinking that only one of us has read Theory of the Leisure Class. Wikipedia is great but perhaps in this case not for those uninitiated in "economise". The problem here is the term "demand". Decreased demand doesn't mean, as you're assuming, decreased unit demand. Other than for a few special cases, it's axiomatic that, at every point on a demand curve, more units are demanded as the price is lowered. So of course you will move more units as you lower the price. (This is in fact what a demand curve is, a map of units demanded at a given price). That's true for just about everything. But for a Veblen good, lowering the price lowers the entire demand curve -- it's shifted downward as the product loses its cache. Consequently, for a given price, you will move fewer units. From a marketing perspective, this means that while cutting price may mean you move more units, there is less profit per unit and potentially less profit overall. For an example of how this works, just look at Cadillac.

Hope this helps.

 

[NYRob]

...I hope we can all agree that gas engines blow (CO2) and need to go the way of the animals fueling them (extinct).

That's a foregone conclusion... unfortunately some will cling to their ICE till the last drop of gasoline is consumed.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see..."

 

[Bacardi]

There are a few Tesla owners here who own Chevrolet products as well... so be careful there....
I'm friends with a very fine older gentleman (local attorney) who plans on trading in his i3 for a Model 3 when it's available because he's unhappy with the harsh i3 ride characteristics. He's neither "smug" or a "DBag" just a nice, regular guy like most of us. Who knows... maybe I'll get him interested in the Bolt rather than the M3.

For the current Tesla owners who own Chevy products most do not Spark EVs, Volts, Bolt EVs, most are ICE vehicles which is either a Vette or a SUV...They own a Tesla for the status it brings them and they get to say they're "greener" than the average person...This is

I've said this many times before, Bolt EV buyers buy a Bolt EV because they want an EV, Tesla buyers buy a Tesla because they want a Tesla...

 

[KenC]

I think you just described demographics. However, if the Tesla Model3 does indeed come in at a reasonable price, then I think the demographic difference will lessen. Having said that, I'm a bit skeptical that the M3 will actually compete with the Bolt. I think it'll be more like Audi competing with Volkswagen.[/QUO

I agree that the Model 3 and the Bolt EV may target slightly different groups, but each can choose either with a slight uptick in cost for the Model 3 purchase, when options are added. The Model 3 is more likley to target people who may be the the BMW 3 series class. I personally love the exterior look of the Model 3 over the Bolt EV. Not to say I do not like the BOLT EV. If I had to pick right now, I would choose the Model 3 over the BOLT EV for up to maybe $10K more, if I could get a Model 3 70D. I would want the dual motor for winters in New Jersey. And yes the availability of charging networks does weigh in on the purchase with access to the Tesla super chargers for quicker charging times on the longer distance travels over standard level2 or DCFC.

I think you'd be lucky to get a M3 70D for "up to maybe $10K more".

 

[Bluesideup]

Yes the majority of Tesla owners are a very special combination of smug and DBAg at least the ones who post in forums anyway.

Prius owners go on about how Chevy offerings are invalid, unreliable and have insufficient interior space for strollers 2 cars seats and grandma

Nissan buyers complain that no volt owner cares about the environment and that the bolt isn't comfortable for a 6'4 280lb man

As someone who owns both a Tesla and Volt you are coming off as more of a Dbag than any Tesla owner I have met.

You quote about the Tesla owners in this forum being smug and DBAg but look at what they have to deal with. I love both my Chevy Volt and my Tesla but I am a Dbag and smug for owning it? Maybe just maybe it is your attitude and those that seem to have a deep resentment towards Tesla that have rubbed off in your dealings with people who own a Tesla?

 

[Fourdoor]

I think you'd be lucky to get a M3 70D for "up to maybe $10K more".

I hear that, a M3 70 (or 75) D will probably only come as a P model, so I expect it to be 55K+ and if you add air suspension, full autopilot, all the options including ludicrous and you are talking 80K+

Being a performance car enthusiast, if I have the money I would probably get a loaded M3... if I couldn't afford that I would probably go with the Bolt premier rather than stepping down to a "non-ludicrous" M3.

Keith

PS: ICE drivers and coal powered EV's are holding off the next ice age, you should thank us

 

[Bluesideup]

For the current Tesla owners who own Chevy products most do not Spark EVs, Volts, Bolt EVs, most are ICE vehicles which is either a Vette or a SUV...They own a Tesla for the status it brings them and they get to say they're "greener" than the average person...This is

I've said this many times before, Bolt EV buyers buy a Bolt EV because they want an EV, Tesla buyers buy a Tesla because they want a Tesla...

It seems a little smug to say that ONLY Bolt owners want to buy Bolts because they want an EV and Tesla owners are in it only for the badge.

I would have to disagree as I own both a Tesla and Volt. I got into the Volts in 2012 because it was the best electric vehicle out there for under $45,000. The fact that the Tesla was the only true Electric vehicle capable of replacing an ICE was the reason a lot of people went with a Tesla.

There are those that did buy it for the green factor but most greenies get the ugliest car they can find so it stands out ie Leaf. There are probably more Tesla owners that bought the car for the EV capabilities than people who buy Bolts.

The fact that the Tesla can cross so many lines for those that want an EV to be green is great or those that want a cool car is great or those that want the fastest production car on the planet is great or those that want an autopilot for traffic is great or for those that want to get 300 plus miles of range is great or for those that want to put a family in an electric car is great or for those that want to get us off fossil fuels is great.

Any electric car that can further any or all of those goals is great and the fact that it can resonate with so many is why we can even have a true discussion on electrifying the country and coming out of the less than 1% of all cars sold number.

 

[Elemental]

My friend got an used 911 at nearly the same time, he offered a quick ride up and back to P.V. and a half dozen girls took him up on the offer and of course snapchats videos and social media selfies followed...The bottom line was the 911 was all smiles with the girls while my Volt resulting in some of the same girls to be concerned with my judgment...

My friend had a 911, and we would both agree my 1982 Fiat X19 parked next to him got more attention. 911s are everywhere, and while they are a wonderful to drive car, they aren't the chick magnet they are by you.


NOW - This ELR. Its turning into a rare thing if I don't get approached about it.

 

[theo1000]

From my personal point of view I got the Volt and my BMW because they are backed by 100+ years type companies, despite wobbles.

TESLA is still a question mark long term.... ..just my personal decision.

 

[16513]

Way back when Detroit was King it was Ford vs. Chevy, etc. Things are no different today. I say "buy what you like".

 

[Loboc]

NOW - This ELR. Its turning into a rare thing if I don't get approached about it.

Mine gets more attention, thumbs-up, and conversation than all my other cars put together. That's ~ 50 different cars including 'Vette, Volt, El Dorado rag-top and a '68 Mustang!

 

[Chris TX]

Considering there aren't that many Bolt owners yet, why even start comparing this? I imagine Bolt EV owners will be similar to Leaf owners, but with a streak of GM loyalty and "America First!" They could also be like the BMW i3 buyers, too. Most of those guys really wanted a Tesla but the i3 is in their budget, and it's a luxury brand. Most of them will say something along the lines of, "Well, I looked at the Tesla but it was too big."

From what I've seen, Bolt owners already have a long range vehicle and want an around-town BEV that has better range than a Leaf. Plus, it's not a Leaf so their work buddies can't make fun of them for driving one, right?

And pinning one type of personality to describe Tesla owners is going to be impossible. Tens of thousands of owners from all walks of life. Plenty of people have an easy time affording them, but there's a decent amount that are stretching the hell out of their budget to own one because of what it means for the environment.

 

[Slotracer577]

As someone who is considering a Bolt, I have a couple of criteria that rule out a TM3. I have to buy it this year, I have another tdi that is going back and need a car. I want to be able to get the federal tax credit. Without it these cars are too expensive. If I could buy a TM3 today for $40k I would. I am not a GM fan at all, but they are the only company building the car I want.

I live in a rural area and my daily drive is 45 to 100 miles depending on how much running around I do. I also drive in the cold, snow and deal with a 1500 ft elevation change every day. Even a 30kw pack in the leaf is a no go. Too much range anxiety. I know the miles/kWh I get with the volt and the leaf doesn't go far enough when new and would certainly not once it looses some capacity. I have a volt and a e350 for long drives and hauling stuff so the new car will only be a commuter car. I figure the minimum pack size required is 40kwh to account for range loss, cold weather performance and the hills.

 

[rmay635703]

As someone who owns both a Tesla and Volt you are coming off as more of a Dbag than any Tesla owner I have met.

You quote about the Tesla owners in this forum being smug and DBAg but look at what they have to deal with. I love both my Chevy Volt and my Tesla but I am a Dbag and smug for owning it? Maybe just maybe it is your attitude and those that seem to have a deep resentment towards Tesla that have rubbed off in your dealings with people who own a Tesla?

Hmm but you don't disagree with my Nissan or Prius statement?(those comments denote smugness and DBAGishness)

I have never met a TSLA owner that is as I describe in person but I certainly have met people who want to own a Tesla that certainly are.
Likewise the constant internet chatter on Tesla in such places as vintage PC forums is at a minimum troll like.
A as yet non-existent Tesla product coming up as a solution to an immediate need in regards to something unrelated to Tesla is another winner.

The no Volt owners care about (insert one) environment, pollution, emissions, fossil fuels.
Statements have many times came from a current or past Tesla owner (one had a leaf wanted a Tesla and was lambasting a volt driver about how he should have a Tesla with supercharger technology because he obviously doesn't know how to think critically and doesn't care about the environment )
I can't count the number of times that statement comes in regards to the volt, yet the PIP and prime were immune to the same scrutiny.

Needless to say I group many of the off topic Tesla comments on other forums into the same category as Nissan epower shills and Hummer is greener guy statements

So needlessly to say if you don't fall into the average online Tesla forum poster category, I am sorry I offended you.
You are a true hero to break with the fold and own opposing products each with their own advantages.
I guarantee you are likely not apart of the vocal minority on the Tesla forum, if you were to poll how many Tesla owners also own a Volt or leaf or really any other EV you would find a strong divide, likewise if you were to poll Tesla wannabes on the subject of would they own something other than a Tesla you would also get a strong divide.

 

[Mister Dave]

Considering there aren't that many Bolt owners yet, why even start comparing this?

A compulsion to divide an classify.

Seriously...... gun ownership has anything to do with car buying preferences?

One of the less classy bits appearing on this forum.

 

[Ladogaboy]

A compulsion to divide an classify.

Seriously...... gun ownership has anything to do with car buying preferences?

One of the less classy bits appearing on this forum.

You should spend some more time out here in California. It is definitely a cultural/demographic dividing point. Every bit as much as blue collar/white collar, and maybe more these days.

 

[Bacardi]

It seems a little smug to say that ONLY Bolt owners want to buy Bolts because they want an EV and Tesla owners are in it only for the badge.

I would have to disagree as I own both a Tesla and Volt. I got into the Volts in 2012 because it was the best electric vehicle out there for under $45,000. The fact that the Tesla was the only true Electric vehicle capable of replacing an ICE was the reason a lot of people went with a Tesla.

There are those that did buy it for the green factor but most greenies get the ugliest car they can find so it stands out ie Leaf. There are probably more Tesla owners that bought the car for the EV capabilities than people who buy Bolts.

The fact that the Tesla can cross so many lines for those that want an EV to be green is great or those that want a cool car is great or those that want the fastest production car on the planet is great or those that want an autopilot for traffic is great or for those that want to get 300 plus miles of range is great or for those that want to put a family in an electric car is great or for those that want to get us off fossil fuels is great.

Any electric car that can further any or all of those goals is great and the fact that it can resonate with so many is why we can even have a true discussion on electrifying the country and coming out of the less than 1% of all cars sold number.

I never said ONLY, I usually use "overwhelming majority" or "extremely high odds" but prefer to keep that statement short and sweet...We'll simply never know how many people own a Volt and a Tesla (TM3 reservations holders are not Tesla owners <yet>) yet it's not common, my best guess is under 500 and I'd guess well under that...But they're two fundamentally different types of vehicles usually attracting two different types of owners...I have my gripes with GMs products which are mainly the segment and missing features but am overall a fan of Voltec and the Bolt's powertrain, but believe more people will always aspire to own a Tesla over any other EV...

My friend had a 911, and we would both agree my 1982 Fiat X19 parked next to him got more attention. 911s are everywhere, and while they are a wonderful to drive car, they aren't the chick magnet they are by you.


NOW - This ELR. Its turning into a rare thing if I don't get approached about it.

In my friends case, he's already friends or at least played beach VBall and/or hung out with them afterwards...I should add the age range is between early 20-mid 30s...They were comfortable enough to go for a ride and didn't go home with him after (you could be at a stoplight in a $1M exotic and it isn't like you can point to a girl on the sidewalk and say "hey you, hop in, we're going to my place" )...But again the point was, the idea of a 911 elevated the girls mood while hearing I bought a Volt concerned them...And yes, the ELR is a great looking car...

 

[Bluesideup]

Hmm but you don't disagree with my Nissan or Prius statement?(those comments denote smugness and DBAGishness)

I have never met a TSLA owner that is as I describe in person but I certainly have met people who want to own a Tesla that certainly are.
Likewise the constant internet chatter on Tesla in such places as vintage PC forums is at a minimum troll like.
A as yet non-existent Tesla product coming up as a solution to an immediate need in regards to something unrelated to Tesla is another winner.

The no Volt owners care about (insert one) environment, pollution, emissions, fossil fuels.
Statements have many times came from a current or past Tesla owner (one had a leaf wanted a Tesla and was lambasting a volt driver about how he should have a Tesla with supercharger technology because he obviously doesn't know how to think critically and doesn't care about the environment )
I can't count the number of times that statement comes in regards to the volt, yet the PIP and prime were immune to the same scrutiny.

Needless to say I group many of the off topic Tesla comments on other forums into the same category as Nissan epower shills and Hummer is greener guy statements

So needlessly to say if you don't fall into the average online Tesla forum poster category, I am sorry I offended you.
You are a true hero to break with the fold and own opposing products each with their own advantages.
I guarantee you are likely not apart of the vocal minority on the Tesla forum, if you were to poll how many Tesla owners also own a Volt or leaf or really any other EV you would find a strong divide, likewise if you were to poll Tesla wannabes on the subject of would they own something other than a Tesla you would also get a strong divide.

I don't own a Nissan or Prius so I don't make general assumptions to the point I can or would disagree with your statement.

I also don't see how owning both a Volt and a Tesla is a requirement to not be a Dbag when I have met a ton of people that own one or the other and even leafs and we all get along just fine without denigrating the other's choice based on a bunch of internet commandos. Maybe you should step away from the keyboard and actually go meet these people at EV get together. Just try not start the conversation with "you are a smug Dbag for owning a Tesla" and you might find Tesla people to be very enthusiastic about all things EV.

 

[Mister Dave]

You should spend some more time out here in California. It is definitely a cultural/demographic dividing point. Every bit as much as blue collar/white collar, and maybe more these days.

Lived there 5 years I did.

People don't change that much in my experience. Many folks there don't fit any category. More so as you get further away from the ocean. Methinks some of you too close to the coast need to spread out. Living on top of each other might be affecting your mental health in undesirable ways.