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I have been mulling over the new Mercedes Metris.

I've written in here before about drooling over a Sprinter Van I can convert from passenger to hauling and using it as a Swiss Army Knife RV , kid hauler and work van....

Now the Metris comes in at $13,000 cheaper and believable size as a daily driver. Vans are so cool when you think of us men who buy pickup trucks to haul things, then we realize we can't in the rain so we get sucked into buying a bed cap for thousands, only to then realize we cannot haul tall things or stand up in back anymore - thus killing our aching backs by stooping...

One day, you wake up and discover THE VAN! Haul stuff, put a rubber floor back there, keep stuff secure and dry - with instant access by walking back from the driver's seat! The van is a wonder amongst rolling stock - for their utility. Now if we can have one that doesn't break the bank at the gas pump?!!! VERY ENTICING!
 
Thanks for the perspective...

Renault created the Espace in 1984 and called it a Multi Purpose Vehicle (MPV). It looked like a minivan and drove like one. The 2015 Espace is now branded as a Crossover and has taken on Crossover attributes.

Take a look. Look familiar? Looks like someone is imitating someone. A lot of corporations in Europe us these as corporate limos for senior executives to be chauffeured around town and to / from the airport.

2015 Renault Espace

A MPV / Crossover So Cool Kevin Space Shills for It (I like the marketing approach: upmarket and classy)
http://espace.renault.fr/fr_FR#prehome

James : Thus my inspiration. Either call them MPVs like in other parts of the world – Or coin a new name, like “TRANSPORTERS”. The new Pacifica is the most exciting family mover I’ve seen in decades. It’s not the first hybrid minivan. Toyota has sold a hybrid MPV with dual sliding doors named Estima for 3 iterations. It’s a stalwart badge in Asia. The Estima Hybrid uses Toyota’s HSD ( Hybrid Synergy Drive ) and is known for it’s swoopy, aerodynamic shape and reclining Laz-E-Boy style seats in the middle row. For years, I asked Toyota officials why they wouldn’t bring the Estima to N. America. They would never give me a straight answer, but industry insiders told me that Estima is smaller – shorter wheelbase than their N. American Sienna van – and they were afraid Estima would cut into that N. America-exclusive model. The Japanese assessed Americans would only buy a “minivan” if it was not “mini” at all. So why call them minivans?!!!
 
These are the kind of vehicles we need in the future as they should be improved on as I wouldn't mind seeing EREV Vans having range more like 45 - 60 AER and when batteries become cheaper for larger vehicles maybe we could have full electric range vans such as this one on PlugInAmerica.org

I know this is a Chinese vehicle but look at the range on this baby!

http://www.pluginamerica.org/vehicles/byd-auto-e6

That's right 186 AER!

Now if in the next five to fifteen years if we can make mini vans like this but in the $20,000.00 - $30,000.00 range or possibly with higher range then we won't need PHEV and EREV vehicles in the future when batteries get cheaper and more affordable so more people can afford them.

Anyways an EREV mini van would be the next right step before we go into full EV mode.

The Future Is Wireless, Solar, Wind, And Electric!
 
Sean ,

No mention of companies with poor reliability/quality is complete without mentioning BYD. Take a look at the comments to see a common thread of dissatisfaction and distrust.

... And, where do you go to buy one? Will they have dedicated dealerships? Will they be captive imports for somebody? Are they going to follow the Tesla dealer-less model (not a good idea for them given the shoddy reputation).

Consideration of any Chinese-make must be tempered by the Holy Grail of the car industry there; opening the US market. We'll hear of plans to import and reasonable pricing until they finally do it.
 
MotoEV :
I was surprised GM has not hinted at a PHEV crossover. for either brandThey have the resources to do this YESTERDAY.
MotoEV,

I agree that GM should have at least with the launch of Gen II Volt, offered a wagon, CUV, minivan variant that was appropriately larger than the Volt, even if it could only achieve Gen I Volt range. As you say they have the knowledge and you'd expect the resources to do it. The MPV5 was shown us.

However, I can tell you that there is a wagon/C or SUV in the works as I was privy to a sort of hippy dippy focus group regarding such a concept. I am not allowed to describe any of the various designs they proffered that night but something is in the works. But no inkling of a time line was discussed so I don't even have a secret to keep.

It is frustrating because GM has really proven themselves worthy of their bail out. And for the most part the new styling and the quality of their products is excellent, from the new Stinger to the new Bolt, including GMs other marques, no station wagon being offered, notwithstanding. The new Malibu would have been a great platform to offer such.

I think this CFA Pacifica it a terrific design if yet an untested EREV, and I really hope both the quality is there and that it will sell very well. I see this design as even more useful than an Equinox. And though the present day Ford Flex may be a bit boxy in its present iteration I could see Ford lightening it up, areodynamicizing its shape and EREVing it's motovator and making a fantastic car CUV with optional all wheel drive.

I expect that battery cost, though much reduced, is still the limiting factor in getting such vehicles on the street cost competitively now, but hopefully, and I think likely, by the time I'm ready to buy again, I'll have some nice choices, even if I won't get the equivalent of a 72 Vista Cruiser in EREV as I might desire.

Keep them EREV offerings coming!
 
Not really an American sized mini-van, but if Nissan put the battery for the Gen2 Leaf into an e-NV200 Van, that may interest a lot of people. Basically a small BEV mini-van that can go 150+ miles. They need to bring the standard version to the US first.

http://www.env200.com/

Image
 
Jackson : No one is going to name a new EV the “Phlegm Bucket,”
....and now that I have sprayed my monitor screen with a mouthful of coffee, I find that coffee is a good screen cleaner. Thanks for that, Jackson 8^D
 
James ,

man that is a lot of comments with some really great stuff. My wife and I got married right out of college and had very little money. We drove two Saturn SL-2s. When we had our first and second child we just put the car seats in the Saturns. It seemed that everyone we knew (and everyone we didn't but saw around us) went out and got the biggest, tallest, boxiest SUV they could as soon as they had their first child. When we became pregnant with our third child we knew the sedans would no longer cut it. We consciously made the choice to go with a minivan over an SUV for pretty much the reasons you mentioned. It has baffled us for years why people are so obsessed with SUVs. Don't get me wrong, I know that there are legitimate uses for SUVs, it just seems that most people don't use them for that. It never ceases to amaze me how much of our decision making as human beings is irrationally based on things like what something is called.
 
MotoEV :
Raymondjram ,


Will the Cadillac XT5 share the same platform of the next generation Chevy Equinox?I was surprised GM has not hinted at a PHEV crossover. for either brandThey have the resources to do this YESTERDAY.
I wish that was true!

Raymond
 
James : I’d try calling both the ICE Pacifica a “Transporter” first…And then tag the New Energy onto all electrified versions of cars they build later.

The name "Transporter" might not be that good an idea:

Image



:p
 
Breezy ,

With today's gas prices, it makes sense to let the gas motor help out when you floor it. Volt missed a good chance to let people have fun and also drive electric if they want to. vis a vis turbo four, performance mode, etc.
 
I see a lot of talk about SUV/CUV verses a car or minivan. The truth of the matter is this. SUV's became popular because of government meddling and micro-managing the automobile industry, both in the US and Europe (but I'll stick to the US here).

My first 2 cars were full size Chryslers (69 and 73) they were old/warn out and ate gas but they got me back and forth to college and I could fix them in my drive way. They had enough room to be comfortable, they were EASY to get in and out of and their main draw back, fuel economy, was addressed with the next generation of cars. In 1977, GM introduced a downsized line up of full size cars. The change was so dramatic that the mid size cars that year were larger than the full size cars. (A chevy Impala was smaller than a Malibu for example. ) In 1978, the mid size cars got the downsize treatment. Fuel economy went up dramatically despite fuel injection and over drive transmissions still being several years away. The government mandated these changes via fuel economy standards. They worked well enough for most people but not everybody. If you had a boat or camper or even a utility trailer for work, you could haul it with a full size car from the late 60's or early 70's. The new generation of down sized cars simply weren't capable. This forced many people into Ford Broncos, Chevy Suburbans, Jeep Wagoners. Manufacturers soon started upgrading the interiors of those vehicles to make them less truck like and the sales started to sky rocket. The government essentially started the SUV craze, at least in the U.S. It now dominates all corners of the automotive market in all size segments. I think they are ugly BUT I understand why people buy them.

Fewer and fewer people these days are true 'car guys (or gals)'. A vehicle is simply a tool to get from point a to b. Frankly, an SUV or even a minivan does it better than the cars offered today.

My current car(s) are a 2001 Chrysler minivan and a 2014 Lincoln MKS. I love the MKS, it's smooth, quiet, quick, and full of technology. I drive the Chrysler minivan most of the time however. Why? It FITS better. I'm not a big guy (5'10) but getting into the van is a lot easier than the MKS. The headroom in cars today is abysmal. Visibility is abysmal, entry exit is abysmal. The roof-lines are too low because the windshield rakes back so dramatically you have to duck to get in and out. My hair rubs the headliner unless I recline the seat. I have to duck to see around the rear view mirror. These problems are not unique to the MKS. I sat in a MB E class, BMW 5 series, 6 series and 7 series, and Hyundai Genesis before buying the MKS. They all exhibited these same problems. Even my wife who is 4'8'' hits her head on the sloped roof of the MKS if she is not careful. SUV's and minivans simply fit people better and they sell better because of it. I don't have kids, I don't haul passengers or cargo in my minivan, I just fit better in it and that's why I drive it. Fuel economy standards are set to double in the next 10 years. I don't think it can be done without dramatically downsizing cars, engines, performance and driving the costs to the point where they are no longer affordable.

I really think this is why automakers are seriously looking at alternative ownership models. Renting by the hour, drop off and pick up services for rental vehicles, alternative lease options, etc. They understand people won't spend $80,000 on a super small aluminum people pod with a battery that costs as much as a small house and may not last the length of the 10 year loan. I also expect companies like Kenworth, Freightliner, Peterbuilt to get into the passenger vehicle business. This is the next logical step for people who need the capacity that cars used to provide and that SUV"s will no longer be able to provide once these fuel economy standards hit full force.

It's also possible the next administration in the U.S, (and possible the E.U). will re-consider these unrealistic standards and roll them back. The E.U. exports very expensive cars to the rest of the world. Senior Mercedes Benz (and other) executives are telling their respective governments they are being legislated to the brink of extinction. I don't really think the E.U. wants to lose billions in revenue and their technological advantages to China and other emerging markets. It all remains to be seen, however. Frankly 95% of the U.S. population has no idea what is about to happen in the auto industry because it's not a headline on Yahoo or Google.
 
Eco_Turbo :
Breezy ,


With today’s gas prices, it makes sense to let the gas motor help out when you floor it. Volt missed a good chance to let people have fun and also drive electric if they want to. vis a vis turbo four, performance mode, etc.
My Ford Fusion Energi does that... it's one of the things I hate the most about it. Once I got used to the EV drive experience of the Volt, having that ICE kick in and drone is annoying.
 
As a '12 Acadia owner, one of the key benefits my wife and I like about CUVs (or SUVs) over minivans is the higher driving position. To us, this Pacifica is very interesting simply in the hope that it spurs someone into make something like our Acadia with an EREV drivetrain.
 
As for the naming conversation, Ford is doing that (to an extent) with the Energi platform but I don't see a ton of people breaking down dealer doors to buy them though as I could probably count the number of other Energi's I've seen on DFW roads on one hand. (CMaxs and FFEs)
 
solo : If you had a boat or camper or even a utility trailer for work, you could haul it with a full size car from the late 60’s or early 70’s. The new generation of down sized cars simply weren’t capable. This forced many people into Ford Broncos, Chevy Suburbans, Jeep Wagoners.

I think you overstate the amount of people that haul things. People mainly like SUVs because they are bigger, sit higher, and you can haul more ppl/stuff. Most of my friends & family that have SUVs have never towed anything in their life. However I do have a friend who hauls a trailer behind his sedan.


solo : The headroom in cars today is abysmal. Visibility is abysmal, entry exit is abysmal.

Remember, you are 50 years older than you were in 1965. It may not be the cars that have changed :D


solo : It’s also possible the next administration in the U.S, (and possible the E.U). will re-consider these unrealistic standards and roll them back

I don't see them as unrealistic. We know today we can get a car that sits high, easy to get in out of, and costs $30k after tax credits. It's called the Bolt, and it doesn't use any gasoline. So surely we can create other cars that use very little gas and are still big enough for most. Maybe a Malibu hybrid at 47mpg is a good example.
 
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