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Chrysler Introduces America’s Most Fuel-Efficient Minivan – Just Don’t Call The Pacifica A Plug in Hybrid

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5K views 56 replies 33 participants last post by  kdawg  
#2 · (Edited by Moderator)


The company that invented the minivan over 30 years ago knows its customers, so when it overhauled its outgoing Town & Country and renamed it, Chrysler called its fuel-sipping plug-in variant simply the 2017 Pacifica Hybrid.

The “Hybrid” name that's meant not to confuse mainstream buyers may on the other hand be slightly confusing to those who follow electrified vehicles because the 30-mile electric range, 80 mile-per-gallon equivalent (MPGe) “Hybrid” is indeed a plug-in hybrid.

Whatever they call it, it breaks important ground in the large family hauler segment that until now got 20-some mpg, and though Fiat-Chrysler (FCA) ceded what on another day might be bragging rights, it has beaten all competitors to a very important market.


What it Is


The Pacifica is a reimagining and repositioning of Chrysler's brand image for the venerable genre of vehicle that's become a staple for those with lots of people and things to carry.

Its name was borrowed from a groundbreaking crossover from recent Chrysler history, said spokesperson Rick Deneau, and the much-anticipated Pacifica Hybrid minivan is to be released fourth quarter this year.




For those of you new to this, the Hybrid's advertised “80 MPGe” in the city is a virtual number to approximate efficiency of electrified powertrains. Its efficiency is about the same on electric usage as a vehicle would be if it got a true 80 mpg on gas.

This “MPGe” figure is in effect while the 16-kilowatt-hour battery stowed under the second row seats is charged. Afterwards the Hybrid seamlessly resorts to regular hybrid operation and has 530 miles estimated total range.

What this also means is the Pacifica Hybrid can run gas-free for 30 miles as would a pure electric vehicle to seriously augment its average gas usage. Its 30-miles range stands to make it America’s second-highest range plug-in hybrid next to the Chevy Volt – or third highest if you count the upscale Volt-based Cadillac ELR.

Hyundai is just releasing a 27-mile midsized 2016 Sonata Plug-in Hybrid sedan which out-does the 19-mile e-range Ford Fusion Energi. These vehicles have batteries sized 9.8 kwh and 7.6 kwh respectively, and the bigger 16-kwh battery in the Chrysler matches that of the 2011-2012 Chevy Volt. It also qualifies for the full $7,500 federal tax credit which is based on battery size – something the Ford and Hyundai cannot claim.

EPA fuel efficiency numbers are not in yet, but Deneau said the numbers Chrysler has provided are expected to be attained, and another number is highway mpg in hybrid mode estimated at a range-topping 28.



Charge time for the battery is a couple hours using 240-volt current, though really, the vehicle can work regardless if one charges it or not. That said, obviously the goal is to recharge and rely on the battery as often as possible. If this is done, its 30 miles all electric travel means this vehicle need never use gas for many ordinary daily driving scenarios.

Government studies have shown three quarters of all drivers travel less than 40 miles daily and Chrysler says the large minivan riding on new global architecture was an ideal vehicle to make into a plug-in hybrid.


Why it’s Important


Until now larger vehicles capable of running all electrically as full or part-time EVs have been exceedingly rare. A few high-end SUVs that plug in are out there, but nothing is available that's mainstream-demographic-family focused.

And among the slim plug-in pickins, none are minivans; in fact no available minivans in America are even regular hybrids.

Although Toyota has for years sold fuel-sipping regular hybrids abroad, and other automakers including Ford, GM, Honda and more could just as well have introduced them also, they have let those opportunities go un-met. Instead they've focused more intently on making smaller cars that were already relatively efficient even more efficient.





This is true although it’s well known big, relatively thirsty vehicles stand to save much more fuel for every mile per gallon improvement, and the Pacifica Hybrid’s capabilities mean it could save lots of fuel under ordinary uses.

The vehicle also now raises the bar in fuel efficiency in a new vehicle segment, and Chrysler has come from behind with no hybrids now for sale, and only the California-market Fiat 500e EV to now challenge everyone else to follow it.

Its press launch expressed the intent to be “disruptive,” and given electrification advocates have decried for years a big gaping hole left unfilled by other major automakers, the term may indeed be fitting.


What’s With the Name?


Deneau said demographic studies indicated the kinds of people who buy minivans may be put off by verbiage like “plug-in" pasted on.

While he did not say so, vehicles like the Chevy Volt have suffered because of misconceptions persisting about its powertrain, and the Volt has endured life under a veritable invisibility cloak to the broader public.

Vehicles badged with “plug” might also be confused with all-electric vehicles, Deneau said, and in turn might induce “range anxiety.”


Squeamish would-be buyers who would otherwise benefit are the last thing Chrysler’s marketers want, so the expedient thing to do was to call its new plug-in hybrid the “Pacifica Hybrid.”

Whether that’s an indictment also on marketing efforts to date or a tacit commentary on the mentality of the American general public, you decide, but these are the facts.

It was easier to just call it a hybrid because hybrids do not have range anxiety, and that type of vehicle has had longer on the market to sink in as unintimidating and green.


Tech Cred


Low-key name notwithstanding, the Pacifica Hybrid uses a a proprietary new electrically variable transmission (EVT) utilizing two electric motors which can both drive the front wheels.

It makes use of a one-way clutch allowing the motor that’s normally only used as a generator to send torque to the front wheels, depending on driving conditions.

Chrysler says the result is increased efficiency, refinement and improved component packaging.


Concerns have existed over quality control issues for certain FCA products, and comments have gone forth raising
questions about future vehicles. Unknowns do exist, the Pacifica Hybrid may do well and this will remain to be seen
as is true of any car, but that it opens a new vehicle segment that may provoke competitors to follow is more certain.
MPG should be improved in any case as the Atkinson cycle engine gets features like “handed” pistons enabling increased 12.5:1 compression ratio for improved thermodynamic efficiency.

By eliminating the alternator and power steering pump, the engine’s front cover and accessory drive system were able to be re-worked.

Chrysler promises also reduced internal friction along with ignition and fuel injection improvements as also found on the upgraded Pentastar V6 while 2-step valve lift and cooled EGR have been removed with the addition of Atkinson cycle combustion system.


Better Minivan


The company also promises a host of upgrades with a sturdy yet lightened chassis architecture meant to substantially reduce noise inside the vehicle.

Interior space is class leading and it’s of course loaded with all sorts of amenities to make time away from the family living room as tolerable as possible.

The plug-in hybrid’s battery is hidden where the “Stow 'n Go” seats would normally be in the second row so that feature is not available for the Hybrid. The seats are removable, Deneau said, and true to one of Chrysler’s design parameters, the Hybrid can fit a 4 X 8 sheet of plywood.



Early rumors also were that the new plug-in would be all-wheel drive but that was chosen against for this newly launched vehicle, Deneau said. The company has however said this could one day be implemented, but for now it is front-wheel only.

Its release later this year will follow the launch in the second quarter this year of the regular Pacifica variants.

Pricing has not been announced. A premium Town and Country could be in the upper 40s, and the Pacifica Hybrid is to be nicely equipped, but a definitive price won’t be revealed until much closer to launch.


This article appears also at HybridCars.com .
 

Attachments

#2 · (Edited by Moderator)


The company that invented the minivan over 30 years ago knows its customers, so when it overhauled its outgoing Town & Country and renamed it, Chrysler called its fuel-sipping plug-in variant simply the 2017 Pacifica Hybrid.

The “Hybrid” name that's meant not to confuse mainstream buyers may on the other hand be slightly confusing to those who follow electrified vehicles because the 30-mile electric range, 80 mile-per-gallon equivalent (MPGe) “Hybrid” is indeed a plug-in hybrid.

Whatever they call it, it breaks important ground in the large family hauler segment that until now got 20-some mpg, and though Fiat-Chrysler (FCA) ceded what on another day might be bragging rights, it has beaten all competitors to a very important market.


What it Is


The Pacifica is a reimagining and repositioning of Chrysler's brand image for the venerable genre of vehicle that's become a staple for those with lots of people and things to carry.

Its name was borrowed from a groundbreaking crossover from recent Chrysler history, said spokesperson Rick Deneau, and the much-anticipated Pacifica Hybrid minivan is to be released fourth quarter this year.




For those of you new to this, the Hybrid's advertised “80 MPGe” in the city is a virtual number to approximate efficiency of electrified powertrains. Its efficiency is about the same on electric usage as a vehicle would be if it got a true 80 mpg on gas.

This “MPGe” figure is in effect while the 16-kilowatt-hour battery stowed under the second row seats is charged. Afterwards the Hybrid seamlessly resorts to regular hybrid operation and has 530 miles estimated total range.

What this also means is the Pacifica Hybrid can run gas-free for 30 miles as would a pure electric vehicle to seriously augment its average gas usage. Its 30-miles range stands to make it America’s second-highest range plug-in hybrid next to the Chevy Volt – or third highest if you count the upscale Volt-based Cadillac ELR.

Hyundai is just releasing a 27-mile midsized 2016 Sonata Plug-in Hybrid sedan which out-does the 19-mile e-range Ford Fusion Energi. These vehicles have batteries sized 9.8 kwh and 7.6 kwh respectively, and the bigger 16-kwh battery in the Chrysler matches that of the 2011-2012 Chevy Volt. It also qualifies for the full $7,500 federal tax credit which is based on battery size – something the Ford and Hyundai cannot claim.

EPA fuel efficiency numbers are not in yet, but Deneau said the numbers Chrysler has provided are expected to be attained, and another number is highway mpg in hybrid mode estimated at a range-topping 28.



Charge time for the battery is a couple hours using 240-volt current, though really, the vehicle can work regardless if one charges it or not. That said, obviously the goal is to recharge and rely on the battery as often as possible. If this is done, its 30 miles all electric travel means this vehicle need never use gas for many ordinary daily driving scenarios.

Government studies have shown three quarters of all drivers travel less than 40 miles daily and Chrysler says the large minivan riding on new global architecture was an ideal vehicle to make into a plug-in hybrid.


Why it’s Important


Until now larger vehicles capable of running all electrically as full or part-time EVs have been exceedingly rare. A few high-end SUVs that plug in are out there, but nothing is available that's mainstream-demographic-family focused.

And among the slim plug-in pickins, none are minivans; in fact no available minivans in America are even regular hybrids.

Although Toyota has for years sold fuel-sipping regular hybrids abroad, and other automakers including Ford, GM, Honda and more could just as well have introduced them also, they have let those opportunities go un-met. Instead they've focused more intently on making smaller cars that were already relatively efficient even more efficient.





This is true although it’s well known big, relatively thirsty vehicles stand to save much more fuel for every mile per gallon improvement, and the Pacifica Hybrid’s capabilities mean it could save lots of fuel under ordinary uses.

The vehicle also now raises the bar in fuel efficiency in a new vehicle segment, and Chrysler has come from behind with no hybrids now for sale, and only the California-market Fiat 500e EV to now challenge everyone else to follow it.

Its press launch expressed the intent to be “disruptive,” and given electrification advocates have decried for years a big gaping hole left unfilled by other major automakers, the term may indeed be fitting.


What’s With the Name?


Deneau said demographic studies indicated the kinds of people who buy minivans may be put off by verbiage like “plug-in" pasted on.

While he did not say so, vehicles like the Chevy Volt have suffered because of misconceptions persisting about its powertrain, and the Volt has endured life under a veritable invisibility cloak to the broader public.

Vehicles badged with “plug” might also be confused with all-electric vehicles, Deneau said, and in turn might induce “range anxiety.”


Squeamish would-be buyers who would otherwise benefit are the last thing Chrysler’s marketers want, so the expedient thing to do was to call its new plug-in hybrid the “Pacifica Hybrid.”

Whether that’s an indictment also on marketing efforts to date or a tacit commentary on the mentality of the American general public, you decide, but these are the facts.

It was easier to just call it a hybrid because hybrids do not have range anxiety, and that type of vehicle has had longer on the market to sink in as unintimidating and green.


Tech Cred


Low-key name notwithstanding, the Pacifica Hybrid uses a a proprietary new electrically variable transmission (EVT) utilizing two electric motors which can both drive the front wheels.

It makes use of a one-way clutch allowing the motor that’s normally only used as a generator to send torque to the front wheels, depending on driving conditions.

Chrysler says the result is increased efficiency, refinement and improved component packaging.


Concerns have existed over quality control issues for certain FCA products, and comments have gone forth raising
questions about future vehicles. Unknowns do exist, the Pacifica Hybrid may do well and this will remain to be seen
as is true of any car, but that it opens a new vehicle segment that may provoke competitors to follow is more certain.
MPG should be improved in any case as the Atkinson cycle engine gets features like “handed” pistons enabling increased 12.5:1 compression ratio for improved thermodynamic efficiency.

By eliminating the alternator and power steering pump, the engine’s front cover and accessory drive system were able to be re-worked.

Chrysler promises also reduced internal friction along with ignition and fuel injection improvements as also found on the upgraded Pentastar V6 while 2-step valve lift and cooled EGR have been removed with the addition of Atkinson cycle combustion system.


Better Minivan


The company also promises a host of upgrades with a sturdy yet lightened chassis architecture meant to substantially reduce noise inside the vehicle.

Interior space is class leading and it’s of course loaded with all sorts of amenities to make time away from the family living room as tolerable as possible.

The plug-in hybrid’s battery is hidden where the “Stow 'n Go” seats would normally be in the second row so that feature is not available for the Hybrid. The seats are removable, Deneau said, and true to one of Chrysler’s design parameters, the Hybrid can fit a 4 X 8 sheet of plywood.



Early rumors also were that the new plug-in would be all-wheel drive but that was chosen against for this newly launched vehicle, Deneau said. The company has however said this could one day be implemented, but for now it is front-wheel only.

Its release later this year will follow the launch in the second quarter this year of the regular Pacifica variants.

Pricing has not been announced. A premium Town and Country could be in the upper 40s, and the Pacifica Hybrid is to be nicely equipped, but a definitive price won’t be revealed until much closer to launch.


This article appears also at HybridCars.com .
 

Attachments

#3 ·
This is good news. I'd never buy one personally, but now we are getting other types of vehicles and most importantly larger people/cargo haulers that have decent amounts of all electric range. Lets hope this sells well and we will start seeing more of these types of vehicles. The EREV SUV/CUV people want won't be far away now, question is, who's going to make it first?
 
#4 ·
This also makes sense as a fleet/light delivery or electrician/plumber/HVAC/geek-squad tech vehicle. Also be interesting to hear the towing capacity. Ability to do job site electricity supply would be a popular option.

Taxi/Uber space would be good as well especially if there was a high-rate-charge capability.

/Maven is the word of the day.
 
#5 ·
Wow... It's interesting that their market research concluded when emphasis is placed on Plug-In, many consumers assume it must be plugged in to obtain a decent range or think it is a BEV (if I am reading this correctly).

Well, I guess it possibly illustrates we have a ways to go before the technology is understood by Mr. and Mrs. Joan and John Q. Public. Given PHEVs may be the most likely stepping stone to greater BEV acceptance, I wonder what it will take to help buyers see the value in PHEVs.

With fuel prices sitting at historical lows, I'm not sure what will move the bar forward short of a global destabilization of the fuel industry.
 
#7 ·
Chrysler got ahead of GM here. Ford had the Hybrid Escape since 2009 but now has the C-Max Hybrid and Energi, which is smaller than the Escape, now a gas only model. GM and Ford must both produce CUVs, SUVs, vans, and trucks in hybrid and plug-in EV versions, too.

I am still waiting for the EREV Equinox.

Raymond
 
#8 ·
Wonder if the Pacifica could be used as a RV touring van with a folding sofa / bed and access to the 16w battery for lights, TV, etc? With four seats in place, the space in the rear looks massive.

A commercialized version of this vehicle could possibly undercut the VIA van by price and features on a modern platform and branded as a RAM product.
 
#12 ·
The 2017 Pacifica Hybrid will surly dampen 2016 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV sales.
I wonder how many would be 2016 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV buyers have decided to go for the 2017 Pacifica Hybrid instead. This is what Mitsubishi gets for waiting to introduce the Outlander PHEV in the U.S., COMPETITION! Wakeup call for GM, rise and shine!

NPNS! SBF!
Volt#671
 
#13 ·
I'm probably being too negative but given all the issues with the 500ev I wouldn't jump on this one until I had a feel for how reliable it was going to be. I realize Tesla gets a pass on this score but I'm thinking that buyers in this segment are going to demand something that is at least of average reliability. AFAIK Chrysler doesn't have much of any experience in alternative drive trains, which isn't wholly surprising given the CEO of FCA.

Nelson : The 2017 Pacifica Hybrid will surly dampen 2016 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV salesI don't know about this. SUV buyers are likely not looking for a mini-van, and vice versa.
 
#16 ·
"the Pacifica Hybrid can run gas-free for 30 miles"
------

I'll wait for the EPA ratings before I believe 30 miles on a 16kWh battery for something this large. Also, will they allow full acceleration and top speed in EV mode, or will it be like some other plug-ins where the ICE kicks on before the battery is fully depleted?
 
#17 ·
Chrysler is really good at bringing out products quickly when they want to. Good solid engineering backing up the products, that might be another story.

28 mpg highway (if that is what I read) is really disappointing. You don't need a hybrid for that.

Now if it is also 28 mpg in the city, that would help.

IMO, this would be a risky purchase decision and I would bet that it will be plagued by technical issues.
 
#18 ·
DonC :
I’m probably being too negative but given all the issues with the 500ev I wouldn’t jump on this one until I had a feel for how reliable it was going to be. I realize Tesla gets a pass on this score but I’m thinking that buyers in this segment are going to demand something that is at least of average reliability. AFAIK Chrysler doesn’t have much of any experience in alternative drive trains, which isn’t wholly surprising given the CEO of FCA.

Reliability is my concern, too, especially given the raft of issues they've had with their 9-speed automatic. Otherwise, it's a revolutionary product and kudos to Chrysler; I hope it does very well.

That said about reliability, my 2014 Volt won't charge and has a check engine light, so it's going into the shop today. At least it still drives.
 
#19 ·
George S. Bower :
Is it an EREV?
What size electric motors does it have in EV mode.?

It's not an EREV, but the motors are powerful enough for it to reach 120 mph on battery power.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101960_2017-chrysler-pacifica-hybrid-more-details-on-30-mile-plug-in
 
#20 ·
DonC :
I’m probably being too negative but given all the issues with the 500ev I wouldn’t jump on this one until I had a feel for how reliable it was going to be. I realize Tesla gets a pass on this score but I’m thinking that buyers in this segment are going to demand something that is at least of average reliability. AFAIK Chrysler doesn’t have much of any experience in alternative drive trains, which isn’t wholly surprising given the CEO of FCA.

This is the first vehicle that will make me consider trading in my Toyota Sienna. I've got 4 kids so my wife and I decided that the minivan is the best option for us. We searched hard and delayed purchasing our minivan for a while hoping for a hybrid variant (at that time we weren't even looking for plug-in, just Prius type hybrid). I am totally satisfied with my Sienna and wouldn't trade it in on anything... except a plug-in. After driving a Volt for 3 years I am totally ready to duplicate that experience in my non-work-commute driving life. That being said, I totally agree with DonC. I will definitely not be rushing out the door to snap up one of the first of these. If it were GM doing this I would feel very comfortable in the drive train implementation. Maybe it is irrational, but I also don't have a great feeling about Chrysler minivans. When my wife and I were looking we quickly shuffled the Town and Country off into the "not considered" pile. I really hope that this is a great car and gives me the justification I am looking for to get one.
 
#21 ·
MotoEV : Wow… It’s interesting that their market research concluded when emphasis is placed on Plug-In, many consumers assume it must be plugged in to obtain a decent range or think it is a BEV (if I am reading this correctly).

I think the Volt has demonstrated that people don't understand plug-in hybrids. The idea that it only goes 35-53 miles, and then stops, is a surprisingly common misconception. This is smart marketing on FCA's part.
 
#23 ·
#24 ·
Gary :
Calling it just a “hybrid” instead of what it REALLY is?

Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

(I’m referring to the ignorant car-buying public–not Chrysler’s decision to cater to the intelligence of the dumbest common denominator)
To call the general buying public "dumb" is too much of a generalization. You and I are part of that buying public. I don't educate myself about everything I buy, there isn't time for that. Some people do that with cars too, they buy something that fits their needs/wants and buy it like they are buying an appliance.

It really is a hybrid, that is not an incorrect statement, so is the Volt. The people who care about this distinction are probably not buying a minivan.

For whatever reason image is very important to buyers and many won't look past certain aspects so you have to market very carefully.

Plug-in implies you have to plug it in or you can't drive. This would be a very bad marketing aspect for someone who is always on the go. It is better to market it as a normal hybrid which you can plug in at the end of the day (or at starbucks after getting rid of the kids) to get more range and "save the environment".
 
#26 ·
"Early rumors also were that the new plug-in would be all-wheel drive but that was chosen against for this newly launched vehicle, Deneau said. The company has however said this could one day be implemented, but for now it is front-wheel only."

The Tesla S P85/90 D shows how easily electric architecture can be modified to all-wheel drive. In the "hybrid," I imagine that the extra motor at the rear might chip in only when necessary for ride and stability, saving power. EREV has the advantage of using the engine as a generator, so an add-on rear-wheel motor could be operated continuously. A rear-motor boost on the Chrysler would probably be limited to re-gen keeping the battery topped in gas mode. Or am I missing something?