[Raymondjram]

joe :
Since the GM bankruptcy, GM does not divulge any info on big projects until near completion. I bet GM will come out with a plug-in truck before Ford. In regards to Ford’s aluminum truck, GM does not have to go that expensive route that Ford took. Ford had to change their tooling and GM does not. GM has an a patent on the existing tooling that can weld aluminum to metal w/o having to use rivets and whatever Ford has to use and are quietly using that method as we speak.


http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2012/Sep/0924_welding.html
Yes, the new 2016 Cadillac CT6 (both gas only and plug-in hybrid) uses a mixture of steel and aluminim in the chassis and body construction. And it is true that they are doing it now.

Raymond

 

[Raymondjram]

Nelson : A peak at the VIA specs tells us their “23 kWh Li-ion battery pack delivers up to 40-mile, zero-emission battery range.”
Source:
http://www.viamotors.com/vehicles/electric-truck/


A 40 kWh pack should deliver at least Volt 2 like AER or more in a Silverado EV.


NPNS! SBF!
Volt#671
That is almost 2 miles per kWh, which is poor for a car but good for a heavy truck. Most trucks travel short distances anyway, so 23 kWh is a good size for the first hybrid truck.

Raymond

 

[Raymondjram]

Kdawg ,

I have seen hundreds of trucks that are all beaten up due to their working life. These "concepts" are too pretty and will cost plenty to replace damaged body parts. Trucks need to be strong, rugged, and easy to repair, so aerodynamic and "prettiness" have no place in this market.

Raymond

 

[Schmeltz]

Nelson : A peak at the VIA specs tells us their “23 kWh Li-ion battery pack delivers up to 40-mile, zero-emission battery range.”

Thanks for that Nelson. Sounds good to me. The more range the better. I guess I didn't think they could do that much range on that size of battery, with the weight and poor aerodynamics of a truck.

 

[kdawg]

Raymondjram ,

I don't think aerodynamic & "rugged" have to be mutually exclusive. In fact, most of the trucks out there now are shiny/pretty.

 

[kdawg]

OT: (but also somewhat on topic) I just got the latest Kettering magazine.

Full magazine -> http://online.flipbuilder.com/KetteringUniversity/hnms/

There's an article on page 22 titled "The Future of Automobiles". It talks about how trucks & work vehicles will be electrified (similar to today's topic).
http://online.flipbuilder.com/KetteringUniversity/hnms/#p=22
"In his final year at GM, Stenson started investigating the hybridization and electrification of vehicles in an effort to make HUMMER a stand-alone product line."


Other articles of interest, Kettering & MIT working on smart chargers; an article on autonomous vehicles, and a Kettering grad who helped launch the Toyota Mirai (doh!).

 

[Raymondjram]

Kdawg :
Raymondjram ,


I don’t think aerodynamic & “rugged” have to be mutually exclusive.In fact, most of the trucks out there now are shiny/pretty.
Not here! They really USE them, and only a few buy "pretty" trucks just for the fun of owning one, especially the new F-150 Raptors. If they buy trucks to keep them pretty, then they don't need one.

Raymond

 

[Loboc]

Kdawg : They’ll have to figure out a way to “roll coal” in a BEV pickup. >

Yeah, but once ya let the smoke out of an electric motor or a battery they tend to not work anymore.

 

[Loboc]

Raymondjram : Not here! They really USE them, and only a few buy “pretty” trucks just for the fun of owning one, especially the new F-150 Raptors. If they buy trucks to keep them pretty, then they don’t need one.


Raymond
I keep all my vehicles nice. Truck or not. Now the bed gets pretty beat up. Even with a liner. That's what lids are for. Cover up the ugly.

 

[Raymondjram]

Loboc : Yeah, but once ya let the smoke out of an electric motor or a battery they tend to not work anymore.
Scary!!

Raymond

 

[DaveG]

Jackson : Actually, I always thought that GM’s PHEV truck plan would be “buy VIA.”



Dave G : Doubtful.
VIA builds great trucks, but that’s not why you buy a car company. You buy for:
1) their customer base and / or
2) their manufacturing capability.


Nelson : What about,
3) product design.
Not proprietary enough?

A car's design is largely driven by how it's manufactured. If you're doing a lot of stuff by hand, you design it differently than if you mass produce it like chicklets.

I don't have the quote, but I remember Elon Musk saying something like: It's not the machine, but the machine that makes the machine. That's the thing.

As an example, go back 100 years. Everyone thought the Ford Model T was the thing. But really it was the assembly line. That was the thing. All aspects of the Model T were designed for mass production.

Fast forward to today. Everyone thinks the Model 3 is the thing, but really its the Gigafactory. Without that, the Model 3 wouldn't exist.

Yes, design engineers are important, but in the end, it's the manufacturing engineers that count, the people who design the machines that build the machines.

And I'm not just talking about final assembly. The machines that build the parts cheaply and reliably.

Or even the raw materials. The people who build the machines that mine specific types of ores more efficiently, or the people who build the machines that purify the ore into finished raw materials. This has a huge impact on the cost of the raw material. Henry Ford knew this well. He invested a lot of money into streamlining the production and transportation of raw materials.

All of these machines that we rarely see, that's the thing. That's what will make EVs a reality...

 

[volt111]

According to this WSJ article from January:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/gm-expands-truck-brand-sales-with-few-models-1452596537

...GMC has no plans at all to introduce electrification.

This is a little bit at odds with the announcement that GM will sell 500 each of Sierra and Silverado pickups in CA this year with eAssist
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/25/chevy-silverado-gmc-sierra-eassist-official/

...so who knows WTF GM is planning. Sometimes I have to wonder if they even know from one week to the next.

 

[George S. Bower]

Loboc : I’d be more aggressive:
-60kWh battery
-400hp (300kW) 6 cylinder engine (3.0TT ala CT6)
-200kW total electric motive power (500kW combined or ~670hp).
-120/240V 30/100A bi-directional charge/supply. AC outlet bank.
-Improved aerodynamics
-Ride height and ride quality electronic chassis dampening
-5000lb min towing capacity (Available 7,000lb)
-Towing tracking control.
-Available 4 wheel drive.
Nice!!
I want an engine that has both turbo charging AND supercharging like Volvo's T8 twin engine.

 

[DaveG]

Nelson : A 40 kWh pack should deliver at least Volt 2 like AER or more in a Silverado EV.
My guess: 40kWh would yield 60-65 miles AER in a full size pickup. That may actually be a bit much. If 30-35 kWh does the job and costs less, that may be preferable.

Here's another concept. From what I've seen, mini-vans are starting to become popular as work vehicles. You can haul 4x8 sheets of drywall or plywood, large ladders, long sections of pipe, etc., etc. Much more cargo space than a full size pickup truck, and it's all shielded from the elements. The Pacifica Hybrid gets 30 miles AER with 16kWh. A work version of that with a little more range would be really interesting...

 

[Loboc]

George S. Bower : Nice!!
I want an engine that has both turbo charging AND supercharging like Volvo’s T8 twin engine.
That'd be cool. Especially using electric drives for Turbos and SCs. Spin up faster and independently from ICE rpms.

 

[Loboc]

Dave G : Elon Musk saying something like: It’s not the machine, but the machine that makes the machine.

And if they go into a virtuous feedback loop, ya get SkyNet.

 

[nuclearboy2]

Truck guys love low end torque. The Electric motors could provide this. Once a truck manufacturer figures out how to build this efficiently and then market it properly (based on torque, with some gas savings on the side), then these could take off.

The EREV design makes the most sense. A V6 engine in the truck with EV motors with the power of a V8 and higher torque.

 

[bboaze]

Maybe Ford licensed or bought Konigsegg Direct drive... for all the torque and twice the horsepower. Not to mention, they can ditch the gearbox, plus I imagine a few hundred thousand lines of computer code. Not hard to envision a hybrid pickup that weighs the same as a non hybrid, when combined with Ford's aluminum stuff.

 

[Jackson]

Kdawg ,

Those aerodynamic truck concepts are pretty cool; but try selling that first one to the cowboy-booted, 10 gallon hat wearing office worker who only commutes back and forth 90% of the time. The pickup culture is just that; an image that's part of a lifestyle (practical or not).*

That last one looks pretty rad, maybe they'd go for that one (I like it, except for a small detail on the grille).

*A real cowboy of the 19th century would find a 21st century pickup truck an impossible fantasy.

 

[Jackson]

volt11 ,

That's what happens when you get too many heads trying to run a massive car company by committee. Elon Musk gives Tesla a tremendous advantage if only by defining a narrow flow chart with himself at the top; which does tend to limit ambiguity (other unique advantages include no legacy dealership structure, and no real competition until recently). And this is quite aside from his ability to advertise basically for free.

Then again, the murkiness in Renaissance Center can act as an unintentional smoke screen; making things very hard for competitors also (not just you).