[Tagamet]

Todd, it's my understanding that the Prius is being opened up to go faster in the all-electric mode.
I agree thought that that range is meager and not much of a selling point.
Be well,
Tagamet

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY and thanks to all the people who gave so much to protect our Freedom. No Vets, No Freedom

 

[Van1]

20,000 to 30,000 Plug-in Priuses in 2012, whereas our expectation is 60,000 Volts in 2012. Since the prototype test vehicles, using two NiMH batteries had a range of 7-8 miles, it looks like the Prius will indeed sport a lithium battery with an initial capacity of 6 or so kWh, and a SOC use window of about 4 kWh.

I could make no sense of the cost numbers, since the $47,000 number was (1) before government incentives and (2) only "comparable." Since we could compare apples to oranges, that leaves us pretty close to nowhere on expected price. If the cost of the battery is $1000 per kWh, then the price premium would be at least $5000 over the $22,000 non plug in 2010 Prius. Still, with a USA government incentive of $3000, it looks pretty good for those whose daily commute runs 10 to 20 miles.

 

[nasaman]

Sorry, RB, after it could no longer be edited I re-read my comment above & realized it could be misleading. The key phrase was, "hopefully be based on ..... the 2010 Chevy Equinox". IOW, because the new Equinox is essentially identical to the 2009 Saturn Vue, which went thru extensive testing as a PLUG-IN 2-mode hybrid, I'm hopeful the new Equinox will offer that same drive train (because the resulting crossover CUV should be able to tow 3,500 lbs, haul a family of 5 & lots of stuff while still achieving about 75 mpg)

 

[Larry_McFall]

Competition is the name of the game however, this should not be the issue with GM for they should be keeping their goal(s) in sight and keep progressing with their VOTEC concept. Others are going to smell profit and want a piece of the action. I still see the VOLT as being the best looking with best EV Techology and of course, I am just partial for success for an auto company that represented the best in this country to me for so many years. Hopefully GM can rise to that level again and not be so concerned about the Toyotas of the world.

Toyota is in deed an important company in our "World Auto Industry" with global infusion of products as much as GM is in Asia but, I would like to see GM be the US Flag Auto Industry and the VOLT being the US Flag EV.

 

[Ziv]

Are you serious?! 18 miles AER and it costs more than a Volt? I thought the plug in Prius would cost $30,000 or less.
On the EREV development, I think Nasaman is right on the money, build a Compact SUV next, GM could sell 10,000 the first month. It might require an 18-19 kWh battery pack to hit the sweetspot, i.e. nearly 40 miles AER, but CUV's are expensive and the EREV price premium would be less noticeable than the comparison of Toyota's existing eco-friendly champion and the Volt.
Ford has a real winner in the Ford Fusion Hybrid, but it is around $4000 more than a Prius, so it is not getting the attention it deserves. I would love to see Ford build the 2011 FFH with a larger LiIon battery and expand its all electric capability, which could in turn increase its combined EPA mileage. People want to save money by using less gasoline, so having to spend an extra $4000 to do so makes the decision that much more difficult. Which is why GM really needs to work on reducing the price of the Volt...

 

[old_man]

I do not know but do wonder just how well the Japanese do at exporting their cars to China and Korea. I would not be surprised if those countries get a bit upset at the multi tiered import system that Japan has that makes imports so very expensive.

If anybody knows I would appreciate a reply.

 

[RRRB]

nasaman --- thanks for the clarification. I share you hope.

 

[cdavis1]

______________________________________________________
I’m glad to see Toyota abandoning their long standing anti plug-in position.

Toyota adding a plug to the Prius will create an opportunity for the consumer to contrast the benefits of a Parallel Plug-In (Toyota Prius) vs. a Series Plug-In (Chevy Volt). That represents a BIG problem for Toyota because a Series Plug-In will inherently (at several levels) outperform a Parallel Plug-In. The guys at Toyota are not dumb therefore I find it hard to believe that Toyota will allow itself to get exposed like that. I’m guessing that they are working on some kind of plan to get into the plug-in business by 2012 other than just adding more battery and a plug to the Prius. If Toyota is capable of reversing its legacy stance of being anti plug-in perhaps they plan to also reverse their stance of being anti Series Hybrid.

How Toyota decides to navigates these next 3 years of the Electric Car Revolution will determine if Toyota will maintain the reputation of being the front runner in electric hybrids.
---

Happy 4th Everyone!....
On this day of celebrating America’s declaration of independence, I like to think that our forth-fathers would be proud of the many individuals here on GM-Volt.com fighting to declare American Energy Independence.
_____________________________________________________

 

[Geo3]

Ford just got a $5.9 billion loan to build EV's and fuel efficient cars. I think they'll be just fine.

 

[Van1]

The Series Hybrid will "inherently outperform (at several levels) the parallel Plug-in." That viewpoint may be valid. Lets see if we can list these performance benefits.

(1)In Charging depleting mode (or EV mode with the ICE using no gas) the Series design since it has a larger motor, will accelerate faster.

(2) The parallel design used in the Prius limits top speed in EV mode to below 62 MPH. However, hackers have reached greater than 62 MPH with the ICE rotating but with the gas shutoff.

(3) The Series design has a larger battery and therefore a greater AER.

(4) The series design is simpler, and therefore should have lower maintenance costs.

 

[system24]

Your not seeing the whole picture here Boycott..

Ford got lucky, they were not doing very well and they started a restructure and got bank loans to consolidate loans just before the crash.

Then the bottom fell out of the economy further hurting all of the 3, but GM and Chrysler were unable to get any bank loans to do what Ford did just months before. If ford would have waited just a little while longer they would be in the same boat as GM and Chrysler and not able to get any bank loans thus putting them in the same position.

 

[omnimoeish]

Congrats Toyota,

Here's what I'm curious about. By 2012, they'll probably be about to release the 4th gen Prius! That will be another 4 years of engineering the power train for efficiency and power. It's pretty exciting what they've done going from 1st gen to 2nd gen, then from 2nd to 3rd. I would guess at least 25% of the population drive less than 1m miles per day, but even after that, the car is surely optimized to get 50+ mpg so even if you commuted 10 miles each way, for a total of a 20 mile commute. You would only drive in gas mode for 2 miles, which means you would only be burning about 2 gallons of gas a month, whereas before the average driver would be burning about 1 gallon a day (considering city traffic would probably drop you down to 20 in an average car).

If the plug in Prius's price tag stays under $25,000 base, which I imagine it will, that will change everything. The US needs a $25,000 plug in hybrid with ~15 miles AER.

 

[omnimoeish]

There are some ways in which the parrallel outperforms the series hyrbids too though, like the fact that the gas engine's power has inneficiencies as its converted to electricity. Overall, the Volt will be a superior car I'm sure, like you say, especially since the Volt's engine runs at an optimized RPM, but I can guarantee Toyota will be making these plug ins $10,000 cheaper than the Volt ($37,500? for the Volt, vs $27,500? for the plugin Pirus). That's a significant margin.

 

[Jason_M._Hendler2]

Toyota's words and their actions are always two different things. I suspect that the very moment GM introduced the Volt concept design specifics, Toyota filled their shorts and started working on how to add a plug to the Prius. My evidence is how severely Watanabe criticized the Volt. It is an Asian (Sun Tsu) tactic to impede your enemy's progress until you can catch up.

Unfortunately, the Prius configuration is a poor baseline design from which to make a plug-in hybrid. The series configuration is the best choice for a plug-on hybrid.

 

[Jackson]

The Volt is a small car, and it is unlikely in the extreme that towing will be a capability it supports. As such, it's just fine for me; but wouldn't be a good fit for larger families who tow a boat a few times a year. This is why it is so important to have more than one make / type of electrified vehicle to choose from. I hope nasaman gets his minivan, even though it doesn't really interest me. He'll have a lot of company at the dealership, I expect.

 

[Trump]

WHo in their right mind would pay $47000 for a prius with a 15 mile AER. Good luck with that Sale.

 

[Mike_D]

So toyota wants to sell a 12.4 to 18.8 mile AER prius in two and a half years for about ~$5000 more than a Volt, which will be out in a year and four months? And match the price of a 100 mile AER mitsu? Hmmm 100 miles or...about 15?

Hahaha....

 

[Ziv]

Reuters says Toyota is hinting that they will want $47,800 for the plug-in version of the Prius! Ouch! That can't be right.

http://www.reuters.com/article/reuterscomService5/idUSTRE5630DY20090704

 

[Jackson]

If anyone is expecting to be able to tow with a Voltec-derived CUV, it likely won't happen until:

1) A123 / MIT energy-channel lithium batteries (or an equivalent) are available to augment the other types in a pack

2) Voltec supports a larger (or more than one) drive motor.

This is unlikely to appear even by Gen II

Not that this won't be awesome in the extreme when it does ...

 

[Jackson]

The Plug-In Prius will be largely limited by the capability of a current Prius (with normal, evolutionary enhancements over the next three years) but with a charger and larger battery.

Volt is a whole new approach.

While Toyota is limited to annotating the past, GM is writing a whole new chapter.