Considering that the cost is so cheap, and that you are cleaning everyone's air by driving a Volt, I would call it a wash.

 

How far does this go Jason?

Taking a farmers fruit off the tree because its going to fall anyway?

Taking water from a reservoir sold by tthe city because its going to evaporate anyway?

How can you take something that is not yours? Shows an utter lack of character.

Theft is determined by the value of what you take?

 

"I'm going to plug in for a bit if you don't mind " should do it .

 

I would justify it like this: If the garage didn't want you using their power, they would have locked down the outlet or put a sign over it saying "Do not use power outlet".

 

My 2 cents, is that it is probably OK since the authorities have given their approval to public charging, even though areas have not been set up yet for the purpose, also since you were not interfering with anybodys parking privliges, and out of the way.

P

 

I see nothing wrong with it along the lines of other comments. If another "parker" challenges you, just say, "That's what the outlet is there for." If someone in charge challenges you, say, "I thought that's why the outlet is there." Then you may have to go up the ladder until someone says OK. If it goes to a financial official, offer to pay $1.50 a day for the juice. It would be easier for them not to take your money and let you charge. But...it would be easiest for them to say, "NO!" Be careful.

 

Tell them a partial truth: "My car battery is weak and I need to charge it so I can get home." Since every car has a small 12V DC battery, they will assume that this is the battery you are charging to start the gas engine to get home. The only missing part is the gas engine! But if you need to do this on more than one occasion, just tell them the whole truth, including how much it will really cost them, and offer to reinburse the cost. Most places will not accept the small payment (paperwork) and allow you to keep using the outlet free for a few more days.

Raymond

 

Generally if a person thinks something they are doing is wrong, it probably is. This case is no exception IMO, albeit of a less than petty proportion.

What if right after you unplug and leave the next person plugs in, and so on? Pretty soon the plug owner gets a big bill. And hey, why not siphon some gas from the car next to you, the filler cap's not posted.

I'd ask first, and offer to pay for the juice.

 

What if right after you unplug and leave the next person plugs in, and so on? Pretty soon the plug owner gets a big bill.

While plugged in to a standard 110V outlet it costs them about 10 cents an hour (@ residential rates, commercial is cheaper), so I don't think a "big bill" is possible.

 

Sorry folks but I can't see how this is any different than someone parking in front of my house and plugging into one of my outlets. Yeah it doesn't cost me much but it is stealing.

 

I'm not so sure on the "stealing" charge



Is it stealing when you charge your phone or your computer at the airport? Or better yet, is it stealing when you charge your computer or cell phone at a university that you attend? The situation seems to be a close enough analogy to draw some conclusions.

I personally don't think it's stealing and I would be fine with paying. OTOH, what I'm not fine with is paying $.50 just to access the charger.

I don't know if it's been discussed here but the "free" charger that comes under the Coloumb/DOE program requires the user (or the company that receives the "free" charger) to pay $.50 each time a user charges up. If the company then charges for the electricity they must pay 7.9 percent of what they charge to the installer.

Once my company read the fine print, we decided to not get the "free" charger and we are just paying to install 110V outlets on some of our light poles in the parking lot. Employees will be able to use without paying our employer. Cool, cheap solution.

 

As long as the place that you are plugging in is a commercial establishment, then it should be fine. Examples: grocery/retail store, strip mall, parking garage, etc. However, if you are plugging in to a residential outlet (ex. friends house, etc), you may want to ask them first. I have thought about this issue before, but I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

However, if you are plugging in to a residential outlet (ex. friends house, etc), you may want to ask them first.

Absolutely, I think a residential environment is completely different. I'm referring to public/commercial areas only.

 

My brother lives in Fairbanks Alaska....everywhere you go up there is public outlets to plug in ......they are used for block or oil heaters, but they are there for anyone to use at no charge.......a couple EREVS in a parking garage down here doesn't make much a dent in the bill....I think it is included with the parking spot.

 

Unless the space is marked with an Electric Vehicle Charging Station sign, of course it's stealing unless you ask. The beauty is, with the Volt you don't need to charge.

The one reason to ask at the University is if the outlets are designed for the load. it's just a matter of time before the parking police will catch on and start citing those who are plugging in. Universities need the money, especially Cal State University at Fullerton. Since I see one of the former deans on occasion, I will have to ask him what is opinion is.

 

The one reason to ask at the University is if the outlets are designed for the load. it's just a matter of time before the parking police will catch on and start citing those who are plugging in. Universities need the money, especially Cal State University at Fullerton. Since I see one of the former deans on occasion, I will have to ask him what is opinion is.

Citing for what? Is there a vehicle code violation that covers this. Cal State's needing the money...I pay $220 to park there 18 times, one night a week for 18 weeks. So at $12.22 each "charge opportunity" I think they're coming out ahead.

 

If someone were to drive up to my house and plug in, it would be stealing. Of course if someone were in a volt, I would gladly let them use my slice of the grid! However, in a public place, unless there was a lock on the outlet or a sign denoting something like 'not for public use', I would be inclined to 'use' it!
Glad I am in one of the 3rd quarter roll-out states...can't wait to get my volt!

 

Charging a Volt versus a laptop computer or cell phones is unrealistic, that's apples and oranges.

Up in our orchard country, most if not all farmers would welcome the sight of a passerby pulling over and plucking an apple or two for personal consumption, not so much the guy who backs up the pickup truck and starts filling up.

 

Now, before everyone chimes in with "you should ask"...remember this is a public university

It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is for permission!

 

I really can't stand polls that are poorly worded, including this one. I see them on the online car mags all the time, where I don't agree with any of the answers. So here, my answer is that in general I would plug in if I get permission. Otherwise I don't think I would, but there are probably some caveats. Like let's say I'm in a very expensive self-park in NYC and I see an outlet. Since they seem to feel free to rip me off on the parking, and I am paying to park there, I might be less morally averse to plugging my car in for a few hours if I spot an outlet.

 

I really can't stand polls that are poorly worded, including this one

I feel the same way about people who respond without reading the full post

From the original post.

Now, before everyone chimes in with "you should ask"...remember this is a public university with a lot of bureaucracy, there really isn't anyone there who would feel authorized to say "yes, that's okay". There's facilities, there's power plant management, there's parking, there's security, there's finance, there's budgetary..etc.. etc...

Also...

Like let's say I'm in a very expensive self-park in NYC and I see an outlet. Since they seem to feel free to rip me off on the parking, and I am paying to park there, I might be less morally averse to plugging my car in for a few hours if I spot an outlet.

I pay what equates to $12 a day to park in the spot in question, so based on your logic I guess you should tick the YES box.

 

A university will get a big bill from a single 120 Volt plug? Must be a really really really tiny university. If someone really feels that bad about it send a $10 donation to the scholarship or building funds. Really give it some thought. To bring in a bunch of highly paid decision-makers, it'll probably cost the school hundreds of dollars in lost productive time to get to the right people just to ask the question. And thousands in person hours for a policy to be created and a formal answer to your question.

Really, if someone says you shouldn't do it then say sorry it won't happen again, unplug, and send in the donation to the scholarship or building funds. If you're not happy they wouldn't let you charge, make the donation for only $5 with a letter of explanation.

Sheesh, I guaranty no one will go to prison on this one and it falls completely off the screen without any hint of unethical behavior. With all the incessant, rampant and horrific crime taking place who cares about a bucks worth of 'lectricity at publicly accessible outlet, where the only effect will likely be a few students breathe a little cleaner air, and OPEC will be short about 50 cents.

And it's not like plugging in, in front of my house, it's a whole lot more like plugging your laptop in while you conduct legitimate business at the university. And yeah, if I was plugging in at your house I would ask you. That would be like having a pleasant conversation rather that wasting the paid time of university officials on a trivial question. Have you ever seen the power bill of a major institution, this really is a trivial question, considering the obvious means to make amends, without throwing their decision making process into an expensive diversion of resources.

ocryan, you fulfilled your requirements when you paid your $220 for parking. This money for operating maintaining and planning campus parking will be used to get parking staff involved in answering just these questions with the University, whether to let it go unregulated, to post signs that EV's must get additional permits or to lock out the plugs to non staff users, enjoy it for now knowing that your fees and others will be used to decide the question at some point.

 

When dealing with a bureaucracy, the cardinal rule is...

It is always better to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

You're paying to attend, you're paying to park, the outlet isn't posted against use or locked. If they tell you not to charge there, don't do it.

 

If it is a parking place where I have business, then I would plug in a regular outlet. If I paid for the parking place, I would plug into the outlet. While plugging in a laptop at the airport would use just a fraction of the power, I still would think that you are paying to use the juice in some way. If I were at someones house and I wasn't being paid to be there, then of course I would ask (likely just wouldn't charge then anyway). I don't see this really being a big deal/issue for most. Unless you are looking at a job/location you are going to often and will be there many hours each time, no one who will notice will likely care. I would not think most would even bother to plug in for an hour or two if it is just a regular outlet. No question though, for sure I would plug in if I was paying for parking for more than a couple of hours unless a sign or person of authority told me no (assuming I believed I would not have enough charge to make it home if I didn't which would be really rare).

Paul (Cari's husband)

 

This is an early adopter ethics question. Right now nobody expects an electric car to plug in so they are not prepared for it. When they see it plugged in, they will do a double take. Some will think cool but a lot are going to think "There goes somebody trying to get something for nothing!" A lot of people are very sensitive to money issues and may look at electric car owners with some disdain because of envy and perceiving the e-car owner as rather snobby thinking he can just plug in at will while someone else pays. "He was rich enough to buy that car, he should have enough money to pay for his own electricity!" I am trying to get permission to plug in at my work place, have been since October. I plugged in 3 times with a kWh measuring device because I thought we could settle it later based on my conversations with our facilities guy. However, people got upset and told me not to plug in until formal approval. They are worried about a lawsuit if something bad should happen to the car during the charging operation.

So, right now, when people don't yet understand "how much it costs" and "is it safe" there are going to be issues and you should seek permission or wait for the designated charging spots. In the future, can we say 2-3 years hopefully, these cars will be more accepted and people won't worry so much about this stuff.

 

Good point, perhaps Volt drivers should carry a brightly colored folding sign that says; Look inexpensive, quiet and non polluting, for about 45 cents per hour plugged in - electric transport! Just set up the sign place it by the outlet and - presto, cheerfully spreading the word.

 

If I am parking in a "municipal garage or one similar" ie: campus, office building, mall, etc, and whether I have paid for entry or not, I expect a few things. I expect the garage to be covered, I expect it to be reasonably secure, I expect a stairwell or an elevator and I expect proper lighting, and, if I am parking my Volt and there is a 110 outlet available I will plug in and charge the car as is expected of an EREV. I might mention it on the way out if I pass a security guard or ticket booth, that way they can pass by and have a look for curiosity sake, but it won't be in the form of a question, I will mention it as "a matter of fact" after all , plugging in when you park a car like this is just as normal as locking your doors and slipping the ticket into the sun-visor .
This does not apply to non public parking, and I would also ask permission from any homeowner...friends or relatives.
If it feels wrong to plug in somewhere it probably is wrong to do so.

Steve in Boca Raton. VIN# 313

 

Thank you Steve, that is a very valid perspective. However some of the other people on here have successfully 'gone to the top' which shows that this can be done. I think that's best -- to get the top dogs on board -- because we need people to start thinking about seeing EV charging as a perk to bring in consumers. (and that's the way I'd ALWAYS present it: "you don't want our business, then don't offer this perk.")

 

no

I think you're going to find some shop keepers and business owners very sensitive about people randomly juicing up their cars with their outlets. This needs to be built into the business plan for whatever establishment it is that you're stealing energy from. As a random driver passing through you don't just have the right to go and make that decision for the business owner that they owe you free energy. Regardless of whether you're buying a coffee from them or not, it's THEIR energy and THEIR decision, not yours.

 

Wrong. If the grocery store had wanted you to not eat grapes as you strolled through the store, they would've locked them into tamper proof packaging instead of left them all out in the open like that. Unless otherwise advised, you pay for parking, not energy. PERIOD.

 

Real-life test:

Tonight I will be staying at a Sheraton Hotel that has a parking garage. The garage has a fee. I called ahead to the hotel to see if they had facilities for charging electric cars, the concierge didn't think so, but he recommended parking next to the ticket booth where I might find an outlet available. Of course I don't intend to stretch extension cords, or leave my charge chord in a place where it would be tripped over or driven over, but I do hope to find a suitable outlet somewhere in there and try a "public garage" charge for the first time. I will raise some awareness with the management about electric car parking, maybe they would like to install a couple easy access 110 outlets, it would certainly give the hotel some bragging rights by giving an illusion they are " green friendly".
Tomorrow I will post the results of all this.

Fingers crossed I find an outlet.
New bumper sticker ? " Will trade chocolate chip cookie for electric charge " LOL

Steve in Boca Raton VIN #313

 

Real-life test:
Tonight I will be staying at a Sheraton Hotel that has a parking garage. The garage has a fee. <snip> it would certainly give the hotel some bragging rights by giving an illusion they are " green friendly".

Like your bumper sticker idea. Too funny.

Marriot is 'green friendly'. See this thread:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread...d.php?6024-Bill-Marriott-Enjoying-a-Smooth-Quiet-Ride-in-the-New-Chevrolet-Volt

 

I think this whole question is absurd. If someone lets you do a free charge while fully knowing that the electricity is not free to them, then it is OK. Any other "taking" of electricity is stealing pure and simple. I don't understand how anybody could think that activity is OK. This reminds me of the employees that spend hours on the internet when they are at work. YOU ARE STEALING.

 

I think the question is a good one.... to find what some people think IS or IS NOT stealing when dealing with charging their car in a public place.