[James]

Even with the higher fuel prices in Europe, a $35,000-$45,000 urban commuter is priced too high for broad acceptance.

Reminding us how expensive those large battery packs are. And most likely tipping off a major reason GM is planning a slow rollout for Volt, and talking alot lately about "smaller packs" in 2 mode hybrids.

I'm only praying that GM sticks to a price for the Volt that is achievable for a middle-class type buyer - Like me!

RECHARGE! James

IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME

 

[jeffhre]

drivin98 : £33,699 = $50,690 which includes the 17.5% VAT (tax on everything) and doesn’t include the £5,000 ($7,518) the gvmnt will knock off.Real price = $43,172 in the UKFixed.   (Quote)

What's fixed? What about congestion charges, or lack of them?

 

[jeffhre]

Dan Petit : It sure looks like they are going for the money, not as much for looks (from the American style preferences are concerned). Practically-minded Europeans vote with their Euros for practicality firstly anyways.But, as someone above mentioned that gasoline is above $6 a gallon on the other side of the pond, the economics of 80 miles ER compared to a 27 mpg auto might save a Euro buyer something like 18 bucks a day if they needed to drive the entire range, and, for a five day work week (plus weekend mileages), that savings alone might go very far to make the payment due to gas savings for those who need to drive very high daily miles there. You can always reduce your BEV price, but it is difficult to increase it once listed. Having 150 deposits already does not surprise me at all, since the cost of petrol over there is the main drive toward electrification.Good for them. This sends just the right message, that there is a “pot of gold” in electrification for those that do it right, and back their products as well as GM does.Great topic today.   (Quote)

Lets cut the driving range down so they save $10.00 a day. Then compare it to that 27 mpg ICE. In ten years minus oil changes oxygen sensors, brake pads and rotors, minus congestion charges and add the gummnt credit and it's, it's...dang it's free!!!

 

[Tagamet]

N Riley : Once again, a vehicle manufacturer other than GM makes the Volt look even better. Keep up the good work, GM. Good PR getting all these other companies to price their electrics so much higher than the Volt. Must have taken a lot of work on Bob Lutz’s part. All kidding aside, this does look good for the Volt....

Seems like GM shouldn't release the Volt for at least a year or two. By then, it'll seem like they are *giving* it away! (lol). (If you're listening, GM, I really AM kidding!)

Be well and believe,
Tagamet

Let's Just Get The VOLTS ' Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS

 

[James]

I noticed more than one article today - So I have to make a comment regarding one of our daily posters remarks earlier that he is seriously contemplating buying a new Dodge Magnum R/T as his next car.

ARE YOU KIDDING?!!! Your choices are a Dodge Magnum V8 vs. a Volt?!!!! Huh?!!

The Magnum flies in the face of everything we all are hoping for in the Volt. It's a huge, heavy behemoth of decades long past. Even though it has a Hemi inside, I don't think the Magnum, much less the R/T version is a wise choice as a collector car investment. The Magnum and 300C ( Challenger too ) are 3 generations past Mercedes E class chassis underneath with the aerodynamics of a brick. To me, a great example of how American car companies lagged behind, and to this day try to capitalize on nostalgia over substance by selling outdated, dirty, expensive, innefficient retro-themed cars to middle-aged Americans muddled by memories of yore.

So hmmmm....Volt? Magnum?...Magnum? Volt? This might typify how literaly confused the domestic auto buying public is as of 2010.

TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!

RECHARGE! James

 

[Some_Dude]

I just realized the Leaf looks a lot like Jar-jar Binks.

 

[Tagamet]

James : ...So hmmmm….Volt? Magnum?…Magnum? Volt? This might typify how literaly confused the domestic auto buying public is as of 2010.

TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!

RECHARGE! James

Uh, maybe he needs a truck.

Be well and believe,
Tagamet

Let's Just Get The VOLTS ' Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS

 

[MuddyRoverRob]

Tagamet : Uh, maybe he needs a truck.Be well and believe,TagametLet’s Just Get The VOLTS ‘ Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS   (Quote)


They stopped making the Magnum a few years ago... If he found one on a dealers lot there is likely one heck of a deal to be had... can buy a lot of nice safe Canadian gas for the savings...

 

[GXT3]

statik : Other ‘MSRP’ UK prices:Cruze £12,795 – £16,045 — which ‘would be’ $19–24KFord Focus £17,870 – £27,575 — which ‘would be’ $26-40KToyota Prius £19,504 – £22,610 — which ‘would be’ $29-34KCorvette £48,000 — which ‘would be’ $72K/just saying<BR (Quote)
Thank you Statik.

Lyle did the same thing to the Leaf the other day.

Plus I notice that when the Volt price is quoted it tends to include the rebate while the Leaf and the iMiEV don't.

Let's just keep it consistent, ok? With all the double-standards a casual observer might easily think that many around here don't believe the Volt compares favourably to the competition on its own merit.

 

[MuddyRoverRob]

James : I noticed more than one article today – So I have to make a comment regarding one of our daily posters remarks earlier that he is seriously contemplating buying a new Dodge Magnum R/T as his next car.ARE YOU KIDDING?!!! Your choices are a Dodge Magnum V8 vs. a Volt?!!!! Huh?!!The Magnum flies in the face of everything we all are hoping for in the Volt. It’s a huge, heavy behemoth of decades long past. Even though it has a Hemi inside, I don’t think the Magnum, much less the R/T version is a wise choice as a collector car investment. The Magnum and 300C ( Challenger too ) are 3 generations past Mercedes E class chassis underneath with the aerodynamics of a brick. To me, a great example of how American car companies lagged behind, and to this day try to capitalize on nostalgia over substance by selling outdated, dirty, expensive, innefficient retro-themed cars to middle-aged Americans muddled by memories of yore.So hmmmm….Volt? Magnum?…Magnum? Volt? This might typify how literaly confused the domestic auto buying public is as of 2010.TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!RECHARGE! James   (Quote)

If one backs off on the ideals just a little and then adds in a bit of penny pinching there are some really incredible deals to be had on the Chryco lots.

The Neighbor got a Journey R/T and it its a really nice fully loaded little AWD CUV for just a hair over $30k cdn.
The Brother in law bought a Charger and really likes the car, it's quiet and powerful. I don't have finance details.

Both are decent on fuel.

Of course we would ideally all like to have a Volt, the hard reality is that for at least 2 years there will not be enough Volts just for the people on the list!

There is little point in criticizing another, they are making their own decisions with their own circumstances.

 

[statik7]

jeffhre : What’s fixed? What about congestion charges, or lack of them?   (Quote)

Good point.

It is certainly a consideration if you happen to travel the CCZ zone a lot...which is pretty much like saying anywhere in central-west London. If you are inside the city during business hours throughout the week your going to pay $12-$13 bucks a day if I remember correctly. (That is all pretty much moot if you live inside the zone however.)

It is very regional though. I don't believe anywhere else in the UK has adopted this? I could be wrong. Maybe someone else more familar could fill that info in.

You could easy rack up $10,000+ over the life of a car. That being said if you are comparing EV-X to EV-Y...both would have this advantage.

 

[Redeye]

If they could get the price down a little it could replace the spare tire in my pickup.

 

[James]

iMiev, Toyota IQ, Smart EV, THINKcity, Fiat 500EV all make sense for narrow roads of European cities and villages. I hope the price comes way down so we can see large numbers of these clean, cute little machines silently traversing the cobblestone streets, traffic circles and crowded urban settings of Europe's population centers clearing the air. Blue tec Diesel-electric EREVs make more sense there also.

As for us, horror to think of the aftermath of a 2 car collision - Suburban, Expedition, Sequoia or even a minivan vs. one of these itty bitty appliances.

RECHARGE! James

IF YOU BUILD THEM THEY WILL COME.

 

[nasaman]

As Lyle said, "Suddenly under $40,000 for a Volt sounds like a very good deal indeed."

As I've argued on more than one prior post here, a 40-mile AER EREV like the Volt is inherently less costly to manufacture than a 100-mile AER BEV. And I continue to strongly suspect that the several automakers introducing BEVs are secretly hard at work developing EREVs that they can sell at much more competitive MSRPs. The delay is not only the added complexity ---its also very much due to the perilous task of avoiding horrendous law suits from GM's intellectual rights attorneys! But you can be sure the world's car makers haven't failed to realize both the inherent huge practical advantages AND the large cost savings the Voltec design has over the BEV architecture ---for many years to come!

 

[hermperez]

DonC : This may be academic because the iMiev is not likely bound for NA. The battery pack is just too small at 16 kWh. It might be large enough to work in other places but not in NA. Just not enough juice for the distances, drive cycles, and driving conditions.  

Since the Volt gets 66 miles range (EPA city cycle) using 8kwh of battery the iMiev should get 106 miles of range using 12.8kwh (80% DoD of the 16kwh battery). The EPA derates those mileages by around 22-30% to account for more aggressive and faster modern driving.. this brings the Volt down to 46 miles range and the iMiev down to 74 miles "real life" range.

74 miles "real life" range should be good for a large proportion of US drivers.

 

[Paul20]

CaptJackSparrow :
Regardless of the price anyone sayz, it’s what is signed on the purchase contract on that day. when you roll off of that lot you have PAID FULL price.
But, don’t forget California has a $5,000.00 rebate for a BEV to double dip: http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/cvrp-eligible-vehicles Of course the Jelly Bean car is not listed yet but it will when it get’s closer to US rollout, same with Tesla Model’S’.  
Throw this into your calculator... the price includes 17.5% VAT... if you buy the car with a VAT registered business you claim that 17.5% back which effectively means a 17.5% discount for business purchasers.

Either way, production volume is so small there will be more demand than supply for the next few years... so all the price whingers will never get a look in.

 

[Matthew_B]

RogerE333 : So am I the only one who dreams of buying a white Mitsubishi and then putting the pre-1945 “rising sun” as large as possible on each side (maybe the front and back also)?I think it would look sweet, although somewhat politically incorrect.This urge probably comes from my general interest in WW2 aircraft.  


If my grandpa saw you, he might start shooting on instinct before he realized why he was shooting :0

 

[hermperez]

nasaman : But you can be sure the world’s car makers haven’t failed to realize both the inherent practical advantages AND the large cost savings the Voltec design has over the BEV architecture for many years to come!  

The ICE and suporting subsystems in the Volt cost probably around $2k.. no idea on the cost of the 50kw generator and controller.. all this is added to the cost of making an EREV.

Development of such a beast is probably more expensive since the EPA gets involved when you use a pollution spewing engine, more testing is required, more software expenses etc.

So the EREV premium is probably around $4k, that would buy you about an extra 6kwh of battery capacity at current costs.. thus a Volt BEV with a 22kwh pack should cost about the same as an Volt EREV. As the cost of batteries drop in the future then that $4k will buy you an extra 20kwh worth of batteries. Its unlikely the cost of the genset will drop since that is a mature tech.

 

[Arch]

I love the games being played.

Take Care
Arch

 

[Tagamet]

Arch : I love the games being played.Take Care
Arch  
Hey Arch! Long time, no see. Good to have you back.

Be well and believe,
Tagamet

Let's Just Get The VOLTS ' Wheels On The Road!!****NPNS