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Where can you but 1/4 megawatt of power in our country for 10-14 cents a Kwh in ADDITION to your normal hotel load? Its not possible. Volts cost the same to operate as regular cars.

Hmmmm.... San Antonio, Texas - the 9th largest city of the United States.

August 2012 - My highest bill this year. Great Real Estate market here if you're looking to move!!

 

Arizona here, with off-peak rate of approx. $.06/kwh, (including tax) so your 255 kwh comes to $15.30. There is a price to be paid for living in "paradise".

VIN # B0985

 

Where can you but 1/4 megawatt of power in our country for 10-14 cents a Kwh in ADDITION to your normal hotel load? Its not possible. Volts cost the same to operate as regular cars.

In Colorado I'm paying .05 off peak (with taxes and the cars share of the meter etc I pay about .07/ kWh) under a buck for 40-50miles of charge. I can buy however much I want at that price off peak, (.09 midpead .16 on peak). My employer pays .07/kwH blended rate and is using about >1mW per hour during the day. No crazy cali tiers here.

National average is .12/kWh.. someone has to make up for our lower rates here in CO.. guess that is you.


Your rates are draconian because its Cali and they can get you to pay them. I know multiple transplants from Cali and I have family in riverside county. The fact that your local region is gouging does not mean the rest of the US is in the same situation.

You might want to invest in solar at those rates.. the payback should be quick.

 

Wow. We have a rare bird here. A Volt owner that is misinformed.

First of all, California has the most screwed up electric system of any place.

Second, the nationwide average electric rate, which includes a lot of major cities, is 12 cents per kWh. This amounts to about 4 cents per mile. WELL below the nationwide average of about 12 cents per mile.

Finally, I live in Raleigh NC. Consistantly ranked as the top city to live in the country. My power rates using TOU-D average out to 6 cents per kilowatt hour. That means I only pay 2 cents per mile to drive my car.

If you use the car 5 days a week for the entire charge - as we do - there is NO way using the most common electric rates in big cities that you are going to save any money charging it instead of using gasoline.

So in the future, please refrain from making statements that are simply not true. We deal with this enough with non Volt owners. We don't need it from people that should know better.

 

Here in Southern California, Edison charges me 13¢ per kWh (Tier 1). It takes about 12 -13 kWh to charge each night. That's about $1.60 per day. At an average of 30.44 days per month, that's only about $52 per month.

There is no way my Lexus would even come close to that monthly expenditure. Lexus = 19mpg x 40 miles per day x 5 days x 4.5 weeks (your avg weeks in month) = $213 (and that's if I don't drive other than to/from work (on the weekends, errands, etc)

 

But you will never stay in Tier 1 with a Volt. Really people - you will be in Tier 2 or 3 if you have any kind of life - computers TV etc etc etc.

Pretending that you can charge a Volt in Tier 1 is funny math of the worst kind.

Yes- Edison has a TOU plan - its 14 cents KwH from 6p - 11a the next day and 58 cents per Kwh for power from 11a to 6p. We have a pool, a mother in law at home using power all day, AC - I asked Edison to tell us what the best plan is - we have a smart meter and they could very easily download the power consumption and tell us which plan would work best for us. . .. they'll get back to us in 3-4 months after our request gets to the head of their line. . .

Did you not see my comment?

Look folks, I've lived in NJ, South Carolina, Connecticut and now SoCal - and I have NEVER seen power under 14 cents per Kwh at any of those locations since 1994.

My Mother in law used to live in Bettendorf IA - they had a 9 cent Kwh rate - and they lived in a 1500 ft2 house with 1 computer - 1 television, and 2 elderly people who are miserly with power and THEY made it into the 25 cent per Kwh Tier 3 every single month.

You folks are going to have to show me a power bill to prove to me that you are charging your Volt at 6 cents -

Shark - you NEED to go see the requirements that Edison has for the installation of a second meter. They want a box installed to tap into the main power line which would then distribute power to the two meters - they refuse to let an electrician simply put a tap onto the line - draw power off in a legal manner using appropriate connectors - and then take it into another meter. I have 200 amp service into a box with room to install a second meter. I have an electrical vault on my property - it would be a 40 foot pull of conduit to bring me a second line completely into a brand new box and meter - they refuse to do that as well. They have one way of doing it and it would cost $3k -you are not using SoCal Edison -

I"m happy for someone else who has installed a second meter using SoCal Edison to tell me I"m wrong - but the rest of you have no clue. So stop guessing.

 

Doesn't Edison have a TOU plan, where you pay less for nighttime use than daytime?

Then your charging should only run 5-10 cents per kwh.

In Fresno, from PG&E, I use a separate meter and charging costs 4.6 cents (at night), and doesn't add on to my house tier rate.

If you shop around, you should be able to get the separate meter installed for a lot less than $3000, even with all permits and fees. Mine cost $1350 not counting the $495 for the SPX Voltec charger.

So It costs me only 60 cents per complete charge for 40 miles.

 

I live in Edison Territory and I was previously in Tier 4 BEFORE my Volt.

I switched my whole house to Home & EV Time of Use Rate, and now my bill is essentially the same as it was. If you have minimal power use during the peak hours (10 AM -6 PM Mon-Fri., excluding weekends and holidays), then this is a absolutely GREAT rate.

Otherwise I'd would really suggest either solar or 2nd meter.

Talk to an SCE EV advisor here to see if they can help you!
https://www.sce.com/info/electric-car/residential/residential.htm?audience=residential
1-800-4EV-INFO (438-4636)

 

SCE has a time of use rate (tou-t-tev) for electric vehicles. Rates are .11 cents at super off peak (midnight to 6 am) for tier one and .17 for tier two. Switching costs you nothing. If you can offload some of your electric usage to eve or night you will come out far ahead.

http://www.sce.com/info/electric-car/residential/rate-plans.htm

I plan to go solar soon, which will be a great way to save on SCE's plan as I'll be selling solar to SCE at the exorbitant rates when the sun is strongest and buying when the rates during low at off peak times.

 

SCE has a time of use rate (tou-t-tev) for electric vehicles. Rates are .11 cents at super off peak (midnight to 6 am) for tier one and .17 for tier two. Switching costs you nothing. If you can offload some of your electric usage to eve or night you will come out far ahead.

http://www.sce.com/info/electric-car/residential/rate-plans.htm

That's what I did and it works great. I'm charging the Volt every night and it's costing me about $35/month.

SCE changed the meter for free.

 

I think I have some good news for you. You can get a lower rate without having to install a second meter. Here's the info from the SCE web site:

Home & Electric Vehicle Plan (TOU-D-TEV)

The Home & Electric Vehicle Plan uses a single meter to measure energy used by your entire home, including your electric car. It offers lower rates from midnight to 6 a.m. and higher rates on weekdays between 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. This rate plan is often selected by people who are able to shift both their household electricity consumption and their electric car charging to off-peak evening and overnight hours.

The Home & Electric Vehicle rate plan uses a tiered structure similar in some ways to the standard Residential rate plan. This rate plan has only 2 tiers, while the standard residential rate has 5 tiers. With any tiered rate plan, the cost per kilowatt hour rises as more electricity is used within a billing period. With this rate plan, rates change seasonally too, rising in summer and dropping in winter.

The Super Off-Peak (midnight to 6 AM) is only $.11/kwh. Take a look at:

http://www.sce.com/info/electric-car/residential/rate-plans.htm

 

The only person I have ever seen who went to tier 5, went to solar immediately. There is a reason for that.

Oh, there was another guy. Never met him, but the Sheriff sold his house, after he went to prison for having a bit of an indoor farm in suburbia. I think he may have been on tier 5 also.

If you are concerned about this, and want to get more than a carpool lane ride out of it, you may want to look into ways of saving electricity. There are quite a few ways to do it. For people that want to do that kind of stuff.

 

And the ON PEAK rate is FIFTY EIGHT cents per Kwh - you need to download your power usage off your meter and run that against the rates to see if you would lose money.

How can you TELL its going to save me money? You have no idea about my power use and where its coming from. Or what is driving it at what time of day . . .

 

Where can you but 1/4 megawatt of power in our country for 10-14 cents a Kwh in ADDITION to your normal hotel load? Its not possible. Volts cost the same to operate as regular cars.

I'm in Chicagoland on an hourly rate ComEd pgm (RRTP) and pay about $0.07 during the night. Switched from their fixed rate plan. Avg overall rate dropped from 0.115 to 0.085. My bill is $50 per month including charging the Volt. Chicagoland is a big area (Chicago and burbs).

My spreadsheet covers 19 months on the RRTP hourly rate plan and 26 on the fixed rate. I think the averages are right.

 

We already have solar. It gives us a max of 3Kwh - in summer I'll see 2.6Kwh but in winter its sometimes less than 1.0. Sun angle you know.

We have three refrigerators. Thats the power drain. I need to get down to 2.

 

It gives us a max of 3Kwh - in summer I'll see 2.6Kwh

That seems extremely low output. That's almost 8x less than what I produce in a day, and I have a relatively small system (4.8kw DC). That would be the output of less than 3 panels...

 

This topic has been discussed on other occasions, and in my opinion, it always comes down to lifestyle choices. You say that you wouldn't have much of a life if you weren't already in Tier 2 or 3 (or especially after getting the Volt). Well, that's a matter of personal opinion. Have you considered high-efficiency appliances? Low wattage light bulbs? LED instead of plasma-screen TV. Not leaving things on or hooked up when you aren't using them? The list goes on and on, and many people have attested to the fact that have been able to conserve massive amount of power off of their typical usage just by being conscientious.

Also, have you made a hierarchy of your power needs? Transportation, especially for work, typically comes first. No matter why lifestyle you are accustomed to, your essential needs including the charging of your Volt should fall under Tier 1. Anything after that should be considered a luxury, and that is what you are paying the extra money for.

Regardless, in California, the best part about the Volt is the environmental impact. With one of the cleanest power grids in the United States, using electricity instead of gasoline is far better for the environment, regardless of cost. I won't go so far as to call those people who bought the Volt only for economic purposes stupid (because it typically will save people money), but if that was the case, there are better economic choices (with sacrifices, of course). It takes nearly 10 years for a Volt to make up the difference between it and a base-model Prius (if gas stays at roughly $4.00 a gallon, which it won't), and it would take even longer to make up the difference in cost between it and a used, second-generation Prius.

 

LCD - no plasma.
mostly CFLs - some LED.
All 3 fridges are energy star - I"m not stupid.
I've done everything I can made the economic analysis between paying for power and replacing appliances that have not reached the end of their economic life.

Cooling a 3500 square foot house with 16 foot ceilings costs alot more money than a 350 square foot house with 8 foot ceilings - you are cooling volume. When its 95-100F outside for 2 months and does not cool off at night - it gets warm with the house set to 78F. That and a pool pump simply SUCKS power for 150 minutes a day. Many of my neighbors without electric cars have $300 - $400 power bills in the summer - and solar keeps ours at $200 - $280 now with the car. . . .

 

My separate meter is wired on a separate breaker panel off the main line, just as you mentioned, same design, and we had to run about 50 feet of conduit to the garage also, all new stuff, that is what cost $1350, including city permit, and $75 PG&E installation fee for the extra meter.

I paid for the whole thing, including Voltec charger, in less than the first year of gas savings, it was costing me nearly $250 a month for gas, now it costs about $20 per month for electricity. That is over $2500 per year difference.

Even if my old car got the same mileage as the Volt on gas, I would have saved at least half that much each year.

And trust me, after you drive electric for a little while, you will never go back to gas, as long as there is a Voltec model that fits your lifestyle, which means that charger and meter will continue to save you money for a lot longer than the first three years. (so will the Volt on maintenance, I bet)

 

I don't know if you have your facts wrong or you're trolling, but the rate right now is .11/.17 for super off peak and the highest rate is .27 for off peak daytime use. The .60 is for summertime peak times. Again, if you can change some habits you will come out ahead. I changed my pool to filter off-peak, run the dishwasher and laundry in the eve or weekends. I also had SCE run a evaluation to see which rate is the best. They said it would take 10 business days, not months, and it was mailed in 5 days. Also, I could have a second meter installed free by SCE if I provide a separate meter box. My electrician quoted $400 to install a new box that taps into the line drops from SCE. You may want to check SCE website for accurate info or call them.

 

Is that regulated electricty...sounds like gouging. I am at $1.30 a charge. Get closer to 50 miles a charge than 40. No HOV lane here, just be careful with goats, mules, trolls, etc. in your lane.

 

Obviously at top tier, summer rates your cost is going to be high but I suspect most of us aren't in the top tier or even near it. I'm in NorCal and have no pool (thankfully), never need A/C, and heat with natural gas the few days we need it so our Volt is still a bargain compared to gasoline.

 

I am afraid I am in a similar situation in NorCal. My electricity usage every month is over 300% of baseline, which comes to around $0.33561 per Kwh factoring in my new Volt. Already did complete remodeling to the house, double insulation, changed everything to FL and energy saving appliances. Just that we have security system running, servers running all day. Both my wife and I work from home most of the time, electric bill is never below $250 even though we seldom turn on heater/ac. I either need to take the plunge and install the level 2 charger on a separate meter or install solar to drive my PG&E bill down. The challenge here in SF is that half of the time, it's foggy. So it will take twice as long to recoup the cost of solar installation. :-(

 

Now here is someone who gets it - yes - I can turn my pool pump to run 7a-930a a day to beat the clock, I can force my MIL to stop doing laundry in the middle of the day - and fight the battle with my wife over that because we all know that she should be able to do what she wants . . . .

At the end of the day I need to run the numbers and see what bill would have been in May [before AC] and in August [during the middle the heat] to see what the cost would be using the TOU that has two time slots.

And for the FIFTH time people - we HAVE Solar - we have ALL the solar we can put on our roof - 20 150watt panels - so please stop telling us to use solar. OK. they did not build the house in 1976 with the idea that they needed to maximize a southern roof exposure. Geesh - we're not stupid.

As for my carbon footprint - I honestly don't give a rats azz about it. Saving money will save my footprint. There is not a snowballs chance in he!! that charging a Volt from fossil fuel power plant is saving CO2.

 

Here in a suburb of Chicago.....I am paying $0.046 per Kwh of use.......my Volt charges every night at ~10Kw of charge.....placing my total charge cost roughly at 46-50 cents per night (lets just use 50 for ease of calculation....that translates to 15 bucks a month!!!!).....I drive my Volt mainly for commute 42 miles a day.......that gives me a cost of just over a penny per mile.......There is NO WAY on gods green earth that ANY ICE will compare to this for my commute........heck even during the recent cold weather where the range has suffered a bit I still manage to drive 80 % of my trip on electric and use gas for the remainder (about 8-10 miles)......that is still better than I could have ever imagined.....

On another note.....most of us here did NOT only buy our Volts for just saving gas.......aside from being one of the best cars I have owned to date.....I also care about my carbon footprint and do what I can to keep that down......so if for no other reason than this......you should "bother" charging the Volt when you can and running on electricity as much as you can.....in addition keeping the car plugged in when not in use gives some tender loving care to the TMS

 

Awfully high electricity rates, did you know this before you purchased your Volt? BTW here in southern Illinois AMERENIP charges me .057 per kwh so a full charge of say 13 kWh costs me about 70 cents and I average 45 miles per charge.

Maybe you need to move.

 

the Power rate for Progress Energy which covers about half of NC and SC is 10.5 cents for the 3 summer months and 9.5 cents for the other 9 months. The rate for Duke Energy, which covers the other half is even lower. The TOU-D rate is 6 cents. The rate schedules are available on-line for you to look at. My full charge costs $1.20. If you have lived in SC and never seen a rate lower than 14 cents, then you must have been on some local cooperative. I've lived here for 30 years and I've never seen rates as high as 14 cents. So you can argue about 6 cents vs 9 cents, but your statement that no one can drive a volt on electricity cheaper than gas in a big city is simply wrong.

I'm sorry that you chose to live in an area with such outrageous electric rates, and then chose to buy a Volt and complain about it.

 

The standard rate in Raleigh is ~10 cents per kilowatt hour flat. It doesn't matter how much you use. If you don't believe me, google progress energy res tariffs. I use progress tou-d which charges me 5.5 off peak and 6.5 on peak. There is additional charge added to the bill called a demand factor that is complicated to explain, but this is much cheaper for me than 10 cents per kwh, and since I was already established on tou-d before the Volt, adding the Volt only added energy at an average rate of 6 cents per kwh. I would be happy to post a bill of you really want, but the national average rate of 12 cents per kilowatt hour is a fact not up for debate. You've lived on places that have not managed energy well.

If I were paying over 20 cents per kwh, I'd already have solar. It would be a no brainer.

 

comanchepilot,

You are mis-informed.

I would agree that IF the electric rate were 34 cents per kWh... It might cost over $4 to charge a Volt.

However the average cost of electricity in the USA is less than the HALF of the 34 cents you cite. In California the average price for a kWh is about 14.8 cents. The Highest price in the USA for a kWh is about 17.5 cents.

See: http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=9037

In my specific case... LADWP is charging 12.5 cents per kWh. (Plus an adjustment fee.) Currently I have a dedicated TOU meter which qualifies me for a standard lowered rate of 10.3 cents per kWh after 8:00pm including the adjustment fees. LADWP has a discount program for EV owners with a TOU meter and the rate is DISCOUNTED 2.5 cents per kWh after 8:00pm. (.05 cents per kWh.)

See:

With the discounted rate I am able to charge my Volt for about a dollar. (Plus the adjustment fees from LADWP).

With all of the meter fees and taxes included my Volt costs me about $1.28 per Full charge.

1 gallon of premium Gasoline in Los Angeles is costing an average price closer to $5.

See: http://www.losangelesgasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=C

So I need to ask you a question comanchepilot. Which is cheaper:

1. $5 for a gallon of gas to push my Volt for 40 miles?

2. $1.28 for 12.5 kWh to push my Volt 40 miles?

For my situation... driving on LADWP's power is almost 5 times cheaper than a gallon of gas for my Volt. (And about 80% of my driving is electric.)

Here is another way I can prove it: Since my EVSE is on a completely separate meter I get a separate BILL for it. The BILL is never more than $20. My Previous Toyota Camry Hybrid was costing me over $150 per month on fuel. (And that was when gas was cheaper too.) You can easily see that the $20 I spend on electricity is about 7 times cheaper than the amount I was spending on gasoline for the Toyota. (Which also got about 37 mpg.) No matter how I look at it... My Volt is costing me 1/5th the amount I was spending on gas to run it.

Furthermore... The TOU meter and EVSE were installed for FREE by SPX. I paid NOTHING out of pocket to get the 240 volt system installed.

 

I live in Birmingham, AL which is down the list of US metro areas at #51 but still a decent sized city.

The purchase of my Volt enabled be to switch to a TOU plan at zero cost which applied to the whole house. My peak rate is $0.11 / kWh from 5 AM until 9 PM and off peak is $0.09 / kWh from 9 PM until 5 AM. My Volt's energy cost is a bit over $0.03 per mile for all my city driving.

There are no tiers on my plan so I can charge one Volt or twenty each day for the same rate.

I agree with CarZin that a solar installation is a no-brainer if you are paying crazy rates.