I work at a government owned facility, and have asked about charging at work. It's most likely not going to happen. I was essentially told that policy does not allow them to let me charge for free (I can understand that), and that they are not willing to pay for the equipment or labor to install a system that could charge me for the electricity (or even have a method to accept payment from me). I was told this may be revisited when the number of EVs on site becomes larger than 1.

 

I sure hope this isn't the case with the building where I work. I didn't yet inquire whether they'll let me charge at work (I figured I'll wait until I get my Volt first ), but I hope they'll let me charge there. The building only has about a half of dozen 120V outdoor sockets which I'm guessing they're for block heaters in the winter (and they're enabled too, I checked). I figured that if they allow free block heater use there's no reason they wouldn't allow charging as well, as it uses about the same amount of power anyway - the difference being, rarely does anyone use the sockets for the block heater, and obviously in the winter only.

When I get my Volt I'll ask for permission from the landlord to use the sockets of course, but if they object, I'm prepared with counter-arguments like, the lights on a single floor use more electricity in one hour than it would take to fully charge my car. I'll offer to turn the lights off on our floor sooner than usual at night, or even pay them for the use of one socket, 24/7. If they still object I may get more hostile and promise to keep the lights on for an hour longer each night so that letting me charge the car won't make any difference to their electricity costs. I'm not doing this to be cheap, just mainly to prove a point that so much energy is wasted in these office buildings that having a policy against EV charging is almost completely illogical. Also because for me it's more difficult to charge at home since I live in a condo high-rise.

 

This is going to be a most interesting and complex issue. Being able to charge at work can fundamentally alter how useful EVs are and how many EV miles you can put on an EREV. However, because charging, even at 120V, takes a lot of power, it's not like simply putting in a few 120V outlets. The employer may need to upgrade the power supply, especially if they expect more than one or two EV drivers. But obviously it can be done. Higher wattage block heaters pull about the same amount of power as charging at 120V would and many places in colder climates have provision for block heaters. The point would be that installing a sufficient number of charging stations is not going to be as simple or as easy as some might think. Important but not easy.

The other problem will be social. A place where I am has a lot of EV drivers. There are 240V stations but the number of cars is greater than the number of stations, and this has caused no end of wasted productivity as highly paid employees squabble over who hasn't moved their car after they've finished charging. The productivity they're losing versus the benefit provided has to be in a ratio of 1000:1. Seriously. Likewise over in the Nissan forum I've seen people venting that a Volt is taking up a charging spot which should be be reserved for "true" EVs like the Leaf. As an employer this type of juvenile sniping would be enough to convince me to close the whole thing down.

Consequently I think that, given you can never provide too much of a free good, and given that as time goes on there will be more and more EVs, you need to have people pay for charging. It doesn't have to be fancy, maybe a flat monthly fee though slick 240V chargers with RFID cards would be great, but it has to work so that the number of chargers equals the number of cars.

 

It doesn't have to be fancy, maybe a flat monthly fee though slick 240V chargers with RFID cards would be great, but it has to work so that the number of chargers equals the number of cars.

From the options that I am discovering, it looks as if a Coulomb Techologies ChargePoint station is the best charging station, and it offers options for both RFID and Credit Card use.

 

I think it would be great for a company to include car charging as an employee benefit, and as a side effect, it helps the environment. It's similar to a 401k...it is voluntary, no one is forced to accept it, and while the employer contributes the "charge" the employee contributes to a "cleaner environment", it's a win-win situation. The business should use the free media to publicly announce the " car charging benefit " thereby getting free advertising and public admiration....always helpful for increasing sales and name recognition.

Steve in Boca Raton #313

 

My employer (a government contractor) had installed an outlet and parking spot for another employee's converted pickup truck. When he moved locations, the spot was left empty until I bought my Volt. The other employee just replaced his conversion with a Nissan Leaf and now there are two outlets at work!

The cost of keeping track of the power usage is more than the money to be collected. But I would gladly pay a flat fee to provide this "amenity" to those with EVs.

 

the costs to run 220 to the parking garages in a commercial area must be huge considering the prices we have seen to install a home charger.

and if they do it, they can't just expect it to be "1 charge space and done," if it's an office building with say 500 to a 1000 people.

 

the costs to run 220 to the parking garages in a commercial area must be huge considering the prices we have seen to install a home charger.

and if they do it, they can't just expect it to be 1 charge space and done if it's an office building with say 500 to a 1000 people.

Yes and the last point about the number of charging stations is the rub. Assuming you wanted to put in 10 charging stations at 240 Volts for an office with 1000 workers, you'd need 20 circuits and 400 amps. No doubt that would require both a box and a service upgrade. Upgrading the box wouldn't be that big of a deal, but upgrading your power supply in a commercial setting is ungodly expensive.

This is why I think it would be better to just go with 120V 20amp charging. You'd get charging while the car is sitting, so the goal would be met, and you'd only be loading 50% of the standard 200 amp service, which the building should be able to accommodate.

 

I work at an airport where the airport authority owns the buildings and the parking lots. I have sent out a few letters and emails to them asking when, and requesting that chargers or electrical outlets be provided. They have been fairly responsive, short of actually doing something. I was thinking though the expense of a 240v charger isn't really needed for the Volt. If the battery can get a full charge in 8 hours and you are working an 8hr shift you should be fine in just plugging into a normal outlet. With my commute one way I should just use about 5/8's of a charge so a normal plug would be just fine for me.

I also think if you show that it doesn't have to be expensive they will be more accepting of putting in some plugs. A 120v plug is cheap to put in. Also I'm sure the monitor on one of the systems computers at my work use up more electricity in a day than that which my Volt needs for a charge. I'm sure the perception is that it costs much more to charge the car. When they realize how little the expense is they might not be so hesitant.

 

"The price of electricity to a company, at least his company, is about 1/5 th what I pay"

As I have repeatedly stated, it typically costs MORE for electricity in business, especially when the demand charge is considered. I am as green as you can get, but I worked very hard to reduce my electrical demand to a point where I have removed that charge from my bill. Unless FL changes its policies, our employees will not be offered charging at the office. Even with solar on the roof, one cloudy day and three cars charging (even level 1) and POOF, my bill will go up HUNDREDS of dollars and stay there for a YEAR. NO THANKS!!!

 

This is definitely not my experience. I pulled up some statistics from the DOE on electricity rates and typically rates for transportation was lowest followed by industrial customers followed by commercial and then, finally, residential users. Of course, that doesn't mean that FL has the same structure but it was pretty consistent across all states the best I could recollect. For me I pay a little under 11 cents per kwh at home and I'm guessing my company pays less than 7 cents per kwh. The answer to the second question I will confirm next week.

 

Oh I forgot to answer the original question... it would definitely be a privilege.

 

Depends on the state and locality. Some places like PECO here in PA offer something around 3/4 the cost per kWh for business than residential even with summer peak usage. California is much different and has a huge peak-demand rate. Here in PA, I would think that the EV owners who intend to charge at work should be charged based on # of times they plug in per month times about $.15 per kWh used during the charge. If they have a Volt, the most they could use in a day is about 13 kWh (let's leave out driving off for lunch and re-charging for now). In that situation, that is about $2.00 per day. To do the accounting, install credit-card charging stations and all that seems expensive to setup for the # of stations needed. How many stations will they need? 5? 50?

Since a business can somewhat easily setup 120V wall-plugs on 20A circuits, consider having them offer that with a window sticker and simple accounting of a payroll deduction of 20 units (a unit could be $2.00 or something like that). If a driver does not plug in every day, it can be negotiated. It's like the coffee pool (small money) in that the amount paid per day is so small, it's impossible to determine the value of installing expensive charging stations and accounting methods versus keeping it simple to begin with.

220V charing is faster but will employees move their cars after 3-4 hours of charing or "hog" the station all day? Will they have to have a staff member "police" the spots? Will Volts be offered "only" 120V stations while higher-capacity Teslas and Leafs who "require" charging get 220V+ ?

DonC's post is great and shows what a site looks like "after" EVs start over-using the spots. This is why EREVs are so important. Getting a re-charge at work for a BEV may be harder to do than you think. EREVs adapt - BEVs squabble.

I have a business model idea that someone could run with. BEV recharging "servicemen", basically low-wage employees who arrange for the jockeying of recharging among a parking garage full of EVs. If there are 20 EVs at work, these guys would utilize portable recharge cords within the EV "bay" (like air hoses at car shops for attaching to tools) where like an octopus, they perform the plug in and moving around of charging plugs. A company like Google or Apple (or other smaller) could employ such guy(s) to get you recharged without having to run out of meetings, skip lunch or bug others by not moving your car out of the charging station when you're full. It's really not a business idea but rather something that those larger firms should offer to keep the EV headaches down. Lost productivity to EV squabbling is much more costly than hiring some responsible lower-wage employees to help solve. You have an EV and want to be in the pool of recharged vehicles, you pay by the type of vehicle per month you have. Example rates, probably too low: Volt, $60/mo, Leaf $85/mo, Tesla $110/mo (capacity driving cost). A bay of 20 cars would bring in roughly 1700/mo, about the same as the pay for the employee. Now, we know a Volt will not always need 13 kWh. Vacation day(s)? So be it, flat rate. You are just insuring that the car is fully-charged when you leave for the day. And you are insuring that the opportunity cost of valuable employees is not leaking by having to jockey their cars or having a BEV miss a recharge because they couldn't use a station. To move your car, it could take 20 minutes. If you are a Google software engineer making $150K a year, that is a large dollar-minutes burnt. Of course, Google's motto is "we don't want our employees to leave" - it also should include "we don't want our employees to waste time".

 

I don't see charging as an employee's right. Having said that, I see a lot of benifits for both the employer and employee with employer supplied charging. The lower cost of electricity has already been mentioned. The employer can also write off the expense, anyone know if the Alternative Fuel Infrastructure tax credit is still available. The employer can include the cost of electricity in employee compensation, which is a lot cheaper than buying gas. Finally you have happier employees and that helps the bottom line with more motivated employees and less turnover.

Here in Southern Cal I would love to see employers provide solar charging ports. Charge 25 to $50 a month to use them. I think it would be worth it to have a dedicated spot to park, with the solar panels shading the car during the day and be able to come out to a pre-cooled, fully charged EV at the end of the working day.

 

How much do these solar ports costs to install? How long, if ever will the employer get their money back at $25/month?

It may be the right thing to do, but the bean counters still have to count the beans.

I want it to work out, but on a large scale, I don't expect it to work if you're counting on the goodness of the hearts of company executives. Not all of them are worried about their image of being green, nor are they going to be convinced that the best talent will be attracted and retained by a charging port.

 

Priviledge, for sure. One way around the squabling about the parking spots is to assign parking. With assigned parking, your spot would always be yours and the employer could charge you lease for the space. The lease payment could structured to include a portion of the cost for the installation plus electric usage. The lease would guarantee you a spot at a set rate, whether you use it or not and the owner would be guaranteed a payback on his cost.

 

This is the answer. Simple, easy, done. 120V is the way to go at the outset as it is simpler, cheaper and likely more palatable to the employer or building owner.

 

This is going to be another paradigm shift in thinking. It would seem that allowing EV charging at work to be an easy perk to offer as the cost cannot be too great for 120v access. There can be a lot of secondary benefits to it as people seeing a business as being progressive (both employees and the public), it will get people to think about EV's for daily life, etc. The out of the box thinking might challenge the employees to think about other ways that their business uses energy and their suppliers too. So while many businesses (I have been in the private business sector for all my life) may not see past the primary cost, the secondary benefits are many times far greater in the form of attitude and the resultant of cutting overall operational costs.

Google sets a great example of a company being progressive with EV charging stations for their employees and visitors. This is quite a vision they have!

Companies making PV investments with tax benefits and able to sell back to the grid are becoming more popular as PV costs come down and experience shows long term gain.

Likely the military, as they become "greener" for cost reasons, will make for more cost competitive solutions. As they likely will become the biggest user of alternative energy and demand for products that will roll into more daily life and businesses.

So hopefully over time more businesses will rethink their plug in strategies. I am sure as more CEO's get one they will be putting more pressure to charge at work themselves.

 

Good thing this isn't a pool, with only the two choices. I don't believe charging at work is a right. It may be a privilege, but if so I think the company may be looking at it the wrong way.

I think charging at work is a benefit. It's a way (and a phenomenally inexpensive way) for an employer to encourage employee retention.

 

I think charging at work is a benefit. It's a way (and a phenomenally inexpensive way) for an employer to encourage employee retention.

In a sense, this is why I will not be allowed to charge at work. Benefits are negotiated collectively for thousands of employees nation-wide, and the employer is not allowed to diverge from those (at least, not officially).

 

As to the original question, charging at work is definitely a privilege. With that said, I helped my company set up it's charging policy and here is what we came up with.

At first I did all the research to get the free Coloumb chargers that retail for about $5k. It would allow one car to charge at 120v and another at 240v. Our company was willing to pay the expense to run the wires from the building out to the parking lot, however, after we were approved we were hit with the details. Each use you had to pay $.50 and then if the company charged on a per kwh basis you had to pay another 7 percent to the installer. This didn't seem reasonable to either me or my company and so we pursued a different route.

We simply ran wires out to a light post in the parking lot that allowed four EVs to charge off of standard 120v sockets. Since I have the only EV at my company we only put up "Reserved" signs for two of the four spots and will expand the reserved areas as more people get EVs. My company does not charge but requires us to fill out a form. In exchange we get a key that unlocks the padlock that locks down the socket cover.

The sad news is that some people at work are sniping that I don't have to pay for electricity to charge my car. I'm perfectly willing to but I'm guessing I use maybe 7 to 8 kwh a day at maybe 7 cents per kwh. So that's about 50 cents a day and since I telework one day a week the total benefit/cost is about $100 per year and yet people are still jealous and are making comments. Damn we are a petty species!

The point being that you should contact your Director of Facilities (if you have one) and feel them out on what they are thinking in regards to EV charging. I didn't have to push very hard at all as the CFO and CEO were basically already on board before I even asked. The total cost to run the juice out to the parking lot was in the $2 to $3k range and that was due to the need to run the wires under the pavement and fill in the damaged areas. All in all it was actually it wasn't exactly rocket science although it wasn't as easy as you might think and most contractors are very inexperienced with running juice out to the parking lot for charging purposes. Hope this helps somebody here get their company on board with what's coming.

 

The sad news is that some people at work are sniping that I don't have to pay for electricity to charge my car. I'm perfectly willing to but I'm guessing I use maybe 7 to 8 kwh a day at maybe 7 cents per kwh. So that's about 50 cents a day and since I telework one day a week the total benefit/cost is about $100 per year and yet people are still jealous and are making comments. Damn we are a petty species!

My answer would be...anyone can qualify, go out and purchase a vehicle with reduced emissions like yours and they too can park and and plug in ( cost equivalent to a chocolate chip cookie ) . Waaaaw... they are unhappy that you got a cookie and they did not. And while they are at it, maybe the handicap parking should be abolished, after all, why do THEY get the best spots !!

Steve in Boca Raton #313

 

Definitely a privilege. But seems like a fairness issue might arise among employees. Provide free charging for EV drivers (Volt's in particular) and raise all the non-EV driver's wages ~$4/day to compensate (assuming a full charge gets you about the same distance as what 1 gallon of gas does)?

It would be wiser for the employer to assess a fee to the users of the charger to the extent of the amount of electricity used plus some extra to recoup the cost of installation. It might come to $10/day per EV. What would you be willing to spend? $5? $10? $20?

 

I recently had the Voltec level 2 charger installed in my reserved space in our office garage. I pay a monthly fee for the reserved space as do all the other reserved spaces. I furnished (paid for) the Voltec unit. The building owner paid for the installation and will not charge me for the electricity. As of now I am the only EV, so we'll see if it changes as more are purchased. I have ordered two more Volts for some of my staff but they won't be here until the fall. One of them commutes 32 miles each way and spends $400/month on gas for his SUV. The lease on the Volt is less than that and he can charge both ways. win-win.
#2499

 

Great discussion!.... I dont work in a typical office but similar issues are bound to come up,,, I can see it coming.. I work in midtown manhattan and I pay for a monthly space in a garage that has a level 2, 220 charger. The parking attendant swipes my chargepoint card , and charges my car. The garage does not charge for the electricity. The issue that comes up is very similar to what we are discussing in many posts. the charger is right next to the front of the garage and the attendant has to move whatever car happens to be parking there ( 50% of the time it is a ICE car). It is making the attendants work twice as hard to do their job. I have been buying them pizza once a month and tipping them well, but what happens when there are many more EVs vying for the same charger? It is going to be madness for these poor attendants that probably arent making alot of money as it is... And to be fair why should parking my car require moving it 100% more than the next guy that comes rolling in? I dont know what the answer is but thinking about it now will benefit all of us in the long run... To be continued....