Other thread for sharing lease deals (http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?239602-2017-Volt-lease-share-your-deal/page16) is being used for discussing why leasing is bad idea. So creating a thread for those who want to make a case against leasing Volt.
Jagtial
Because you suck at car purchase negotiations.
Leases have even more shells the dealer can play with to confuse you than a purchase. If you don't know every single facet of a lease like the back of your hand, the potential to get screwed is much greater.
But if you are well versed in leasing terms (like me), you can swing deals better than if you purchased. For example, you can't really go wrong with a $0 down, $52/month Spark EV lease. Or a $0 down, $168/month '17 Volt LT lease.
Leases have even more shells the dealer can play with to confuse you than a purchase. If you don't know every single facet of a lease like the back of your hand, the potential to get screwed is much greater.
But if you are well versed in leasing terms (like me), you can swing deals better than if you purchased. For example, you can't really go wrong with a $0 down, $52/month Spark EV lease. Or a $0 down, $168/month '17 Volt LT lease.
I leased my Volt back in 2013 because I wasn't too sure how the packs were going to last. Time has shown that worry to be a false one. But my lease has been pretty easy to deal with. I got a decent price, no down payment and the car has worked well for me. US Bank has offered to sell me the car at about 60% of what the official buy out price was supposed to be and I think I am going to buy it this week.
All in all, leasing has been pretty painless and though I have may end up paying a bit more for my Volt than if i had bought it outright, I am good with that.
All in all, leasing has been pretty painless and though I have may end up paying a bit more for my Volt than if i had bought it outright, I am good with that.
People don't quite understand this forums biggest "anti-lease" person here, Ninja...It's not he's just anti-lease, he's anti finance, anti having to borrow money...The majority of people debate between finance vs leasing and again, Ninja is against both...Ninja has been vocal about preferring to buy outright vs taking a loan out on 0% financing (why not take that $25K-$30K and put it into an investment vehicle?)...
When you see anti lease comments you really need to dig into the details...I've seen "I don't want to lease, you don't get the tax credit it" while true you do get the majority back as a lease incentive yet you still need an attractive money factor and residual for it to get a stellar deal...
Dave posted a generic why leasing is bad, let's click into the first article and dive into details...
jalopnik: Here Are Four Reasons Why Leasing Is A Horrible Idea For Car Lovers:
1 You Don't Own Anything (that's awesome, lease now, buy later at a cheaper price if you want, you have options)
2 You're A Slave To The Dealer; outspoken advocate for buying used (sure, buying used is a cheap way to go, but this isn't a lease new vs buying used debate)
3 You're Screwed If You Can't Pay. (bizarre reason, if you can afford $25K-$30K but choose to lease that money should be in your bank account...If we're talking new, finance vs lease your screwed either way)
4 You're Almost Literally Throwing Money In The Toilet; best value will always be with buying used (agree that buying used is the best value)
When you see anti lease comments you really need to dig into the details...I've seen "I don't want to lease, you don't get the tax credit it" while true you do get the majority back as a lease incentive yet you still need an attractive money factor and residual for it to get a stellar deal...
Dave posted a generic why leasing is bad, let's click into the first article and dive into details...
jalopnik: Here Are Four Reasons Why Leasing Is A Horrible Idea For Car Lovers:
1 You Don't Own Anything (that's awesome, lease now, buy later at a cheaper price if you want, you have options)
2 You're A Slave To The Dealer; outspoken advocate for buying used (sure, buying used is a cheap way to go, but this isn't a lease new vs buying used debate)
3 You're Screwed If You Can't Pay. (bizarre reason, if you can afford $25K-$30K but choose to lease that money should be in your bank account...If we're talking new, finance vs lease your screwed either way)
4 You're Almost Literally Throwing Money In The Toilet; best value will always be with buying used (agree that buying used is the best value)
Here is an easy comparison for someone that wants to lease vs buy.
I leased a 2012 Volt around the same time a buddy bought his 2011 Volt.
His volt was worth about 3 thousand less than mine. Mine was around 42,000 while his was around 39,000. They were similarly loaded but because his was a close out model year he got a better discount. (got to remember at that time most Volts were selling near sticker and they couldn't keep them in stock).
Out the door my payments were around $325 a month and it cost me $3,000 for down payment, Tax, Title, license and first payment.
Out the door for my friend was closer to $4,000 as we had the same down payment but he was taxed on $37,000 while I was only taxed on $11,375. His payments were also above $500 a month.
Over the 3 years I had my Volt I paid a total of $14,375. The nice thing also is that since I didn't own the car I didn't have to worry about the car as I commonly referred to it as "the rental". Put lumber in the back sure, wait another month to change the oil sure, small ding/scratch in the car no problem.
My buddy ended up needing a larger car right around the same time I returned my 2012 Volt and ended up leasing another brand new 2015 Volt for zero down, more range and a payment of $265 a month.
He went to a dealer to sell his 2011 Volt and they offered him $12,000 for it. He didn't take it and tried to sell it himself for $18,000 which of course nobody took. He finally after 4 more months of payments settled for $14,000 and bought a Nissan Leaf.
I felt a little bad for him because he bought the Volt because a week after I got mine he rode in it and wanted one. But I tried to warn him and I told him battery tech moves quickly and these cars will depreciate fast so it would be better to lease as at the end of 3 years you can get a brand new car with more range, a factory warranty and better electronics or buy a used one a save yourself a ton of money. He didn't listen as he like some on here didn't believe in leases.
He ended up paying over $22,000 for his car compared to my $14,375 even though he started with a $3,000 price advantage. During that time he also had to pay over $170 more a month in payments and lost money on the interest charged on his $39,000 loan. He was also upside down when he sold it so he had to come up with a couple thousand out of pocket just to pay off the loan.
Now, if he didn't need a bigger car and kept it the whole time he probably would have pulled ahead in what I paid and am currently paying for my new volt vs. what he paid in about another year or two. But he would still be driving a 2011 Volt with only 33 miles of range, with no Onstar, No factory warranty with tires/brakes/parts that will need to be replaced soon.
So all those idiots that spout off NEVER LEASE they don't take into account how long you plan on owning the car, if you value reliability, newer tech, better batteries with longer ranges, less maintenance, lower payments/down payments and factory warranties. When factoring those tangibles in then leasing is a great option.
Now if you buy a car and plan on running it until the day it dies extracting every last electron from the battery then buying will probably be a better deal as over time the devaluation can be amortized over a much longer period of time.
I leased a 2012 Volt around the same time a buddy bought his 2011 Volt.
His volt was worth about 3 thousand less than mine. Mine was around 42,000 while his was around 39,000. They were similarly loaded but because his was a close out model year he got a better discount. (got to remember at that time most Volts were selling near sticker and they couldn't keep them in stock).
Out the door my payments were around $325 a month and it cost me $3,000 for down payment, Tax, Title, license and first payment.
Out the door for my friend was closer to $4,000 as we had the same down payment but he was taxed on $37,000 while I was only taxed on $11,375. His payments were also above $500 a month.
Over the 3 years I had my Volt I paid a total of $14,375. The nice thing also is that since I didn't own the car I didn't have to worry about the car as I commonly referred to it as "the rental". Put lumber in the back sure, wait another month to change the oil sure, small ding/scratch in the car no problem.
My buddy ended up needing a larger car right around the same time I returned my 2012 Volt and ended up leasing another brand new 2015 Volt for zero down, more range and a payment of $265 a month.
He went to a dealer to sell his 2011 Volt and they offered him $12,000 for it. He didn't take it and tried to sell it himself for $18,000 which of course nobody took. He finally after 4 more months of payments settled for $14,000 and bought a Nissan Leaf.
I felt a little bad for him because he bought the Volt because a week after I got mine he rode in it and wanted one. But I tried to warn him and I told him battery tech moves quickly and these cars will depreciate fast so it would be better to lease as at the end of 3 years you can get a brand new car with more range, a factory warranty and better electronics or buy a used one a save yourself a ton of money. He didn't listen as he like some on here didn't believe in leases.
He ended up paying over $22,000 for his car compared to my $14,375 even though he started with a $3,000 price advantage. During that time he also had to pay over $170 more a month in payments and lost money on the interest charged on his $39,000 loan. He was also upside down when he sold it so he had to come up with a couple thousand out of pocket just to pay off the loan.
Now, if he didn't need a bigger car and kept it the whole time he probably would have pulled ahead in what I paid and am currently paying for my new volt vs. what he paid in about another year or two. But he would still be driving a 2011 Volt with only 33 miles of range, with no Onstar, No factory warranty with tires/brakes/parts that will need to be replaced soon.
So all those idiots that spout off NEVER LEASE they don't take into account how long you plan on owning the car, if you value reliability, newer tech, better batteries with longer ranges, less maintenance, lower payments/down payments and factory warranties. When factoring those tangibles in then leasing is a great option.
Now if you buy a car and plan on running it until the day it dies extracting every last electron from the battery then buying will probably be a better deal as over time the devaluation can be amortized over a much longer period of time.
It's not such a big deal. The price when you lease is the same as when you buy. Leasing is generally more expensive because the depreciation is more during the first few years and you generally keep the car longer when you buy. There are some additional expenses when you lease but when you buy you have to pay the entire amount of the sales tax. Mostly a wash.
The tax credit complicates things. If you don't qualify for the credit then leasing would be cheaper. It also depends on how much of the credit you get during the lease period. The more of it you get the better leasing is. So on the tax credit front, leasing vs. buying is one of those "it depends" situations.
The biggest issues with leasing, and we've seen it here, are (1) people who want to keep the car but have a residual which is unrealistically high; and (2) leasing locking you into a time frame for getting a new vehicle whether you like it or not.
Just as a note, the member who hates leasing also owns HORSES! And if anything horses are more a money pit than even boats.
The tax credit complicates things. If you don't qualify for the credit then leasing would be cheaper. It also depends on how much of the credit you get during the lease period. The more of it you get the better leasing is. So on the tax credit front, leasing vs. buying is one of those "it depends" situations.
The biggest issues with leasing, and we've seen it here, are (1) people who want to keep the car but have a residual which is unrealistically high; and (2) leasing locking you into a time frame for getting a new vehicle whether you like it or not.
Just as a note, the member who hates leasing also owns HORSES! And if anything horses are more a money pit than even boats.
Leasing is just another way to finance a vehicle. Nothing more, nothing less. Incentives will vary from month to month, sometimes making leasing a better deal, and sometimes making a straight purchase a better deal. For example, the 20% off '16 Volts offer was only good on purchases....in that case, a lease would have ended up being more expensive compared to buying (if the person wanted to buy their Volt at the end of the lease).
Some people make out leasing to be the same as lighting $100 bills on fire, but it's really not. If you just consider leasing an alternative form of financing, with the option to walk away from a car after 36 months (but potentially cost more if buying out the car), there really should be no "OMFG, you leased?! What a sucker!" reactions.
Some people make out leasing to be the same as lighting $100 bills on fire, but it's really not. If you just consider leasing an alternative form of financing, with the option to walk away from a car after 36 months (but potentially cost more if buying out the car), there really should be no "OMFG, you leased?! What a sucker!" reactions.
The biggest sucker is the one who convinces him/herself that it's okay to light $100 bills on fire.
"Financing" is lighting $100 bills on fire.It really comes down to how long you keep cars, for the personal buyer.
Businesses get tax write-offs. Fine.
Those of us who like to customize can't do much with a leased car. Not fine.
When the current 2016/2017 Volt leases are up, EV drivers will probably look to get a Model 3 because of its higher range capacity (215 miles wuuuuuuuuuuut!). MSRP of a Volt is at $33k and a Model 3 is estimated to have a MSRP of $35k so they would be direct competitors. Our current Gen 2 leases have not factored this in; how could they when it is just hearsay? GM will be stuck with a bunch of used Volts that they have estimated can be sold at 17-18k when the MV won't be anywhere near that in 3 years. Good luck with that, GM.
Any hoo it doesn't look like there is a case against leasing a Volt, which was the topic of this thread.
Any hoo it doesn't look like there is a case against leasing a Volt, which was the topic of this thread.
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