Our used XC60 T8 actually makes a lot of sense. It has enough power to drive on EV in normal traffic, and even after that, it still acts as a hybrid, which means 40+ miles per gallon. We love it. Not the same as a Volt, but I was a skeptic and I actually find it pretty impressive. Plus, it's a NICE car.

 

Can't remember if the Panamera is AWD...

 

I thought the Panamera can be had in all variant and trim levels including the Turbo S E-Hybrid Executive starting at $200k 0-60MPH time is a leisurely 3.1 seconds 🥴

 

Any of the Jeep 4XE models coming out this year are probably your best bet.

 

Maybe but maybe not. I have had horrible luck with the new Fiat-Chrysler jeeps, my wrangler had horrible electronic problems and steering shake in the cold and the car is not that old... With those stupid electric problems on the basic things I personally don't trust a PHEV from them, but that's just me.

 

The RAV4 prime is for me kinda ugly. In fact most Toyotas and Japanese cars in general fit the ugly quotient. However RAV4 prime has the biggest battery and longest all electric range of anything available. Watch the Transport Evolved YouTube vid.

 

It's all personal preference. What works for one, won't for another. Armed with the pros and cons, wait for a test drive and see if they apply to you. What is pro might be a con or vice versa.

 

A lateral move from the ugly Rav4 would also be the coming (competitively ugly) Outlander PHEV with the 54-mile EV range. As much as I hate Nissan (who own Mitsubishi), that is a considerable amount of range for a large 7-seat AWD crossover. It's a figure that, I hope, will encourage more automakers to invest in similar offerings. And really, from the back and side, the Mitsu is not bad.

Even if we all drove cars with 40 or 50-mile EV range and used gas for the rest, our global emissions would still be HUGELY reduced. (My point being - if there is still resistance to pure EVs - a good plug-in hybrid can do almost as much good for most people.) Food for thought!

 

Hyundai makes the Tucson Plug-in hybrid. It’s not quite as efficient, quick off the line and has less EV range as the RAV4 Prime but it’s cheaper, has more tech features and I’ve read gives a better driving experience.

So far, i don’t have any complaints regarding the handling of our Prime. But (knock on wood) we’ve been lucky enough to not have to test its limits. I have heard anecdotally on the Prime forum that switching out the OEM tires can make a pretty big difference in handling. While I felt the Volt seats were comfortable, I find the driver and passenger seats of the Prime better. My wife, on the other hand, (due to the headrest positioning) found/ finds the seats of both cars uncomfortable.

 

So far, i don’t have any complaints regarding the handling of our Prime. But (knock on wood) we’ve been lucky enough to not have to test its limits. I have heard anecdotally on the Prime forum that switching out the OEM tires can make a pretty big difference in handling.

The Prime directive would be for long road trips. How does it feel/perform after the EV is gone and it's running on ICE only? Enough power to effortlessly pull mountain passes?

Thinking about it, since the second car would sit most of the time while the Bolt does the daily chores and since long road trips in any hybrid would be on ICE, maybe a hybrid isn't the answer to this need and an ICE might be.

BTW, over on the Bolt forum, there are those who extol the virtues of having to stop and recharge; slow travel, stop and smell the roses, see the sights, stretch the legs. That's good for short haul east coasters, but here in the west, stop for a few recharges and that's another overnight stay. Today, a hotel stay and three additional meals anywhere we'd be comfortable adds $300 and there went any gas savings and a lot more.

Bottom line - tolerance for charging stops is sometimes distance-to-be-covered dependent. if one has the time for slow travel and the budget for additional overnights and sightseeing, then an EV is great. If the goal is to get to the destination in the minimum time and expense, not so much. Where is the best-of-both-worlds Volt when we need it?

jack vines

 

but those car guys I respect

Who?

I ignore most online car reviewers nowadays.

Edmunds, KBB, Motortrend, etc. say the same things over & over, like "too much plastic", and "feels sluggish". I doubt their reviewers would like any PHEV. The Prime, for example, has "too much plastic" for them.

Doug D is detailed but really only impressed with SuperCars, like the Model S Plaid.

TFL guys have gone downhill. The only reviews I watch from them anymore is literally them driving downhill ... and uphill, aka. the Gauntlet (which is only for truck towing).

Alex on Autos might be an exception b/c he's a data nerd, but Alex is biased towards Toyota (he actually owned a '20 Rav4) and has thrown Volts under the bus in his vids.

 

Edmunds, KBB, Motortrend, etc. say the same things over & over, like "too much plastic", and "feels sluggish". I doubt their reviewers would like any PHEV. The Prime, for example, has "too much plastic" for them.

If I NEVER see another review scratching at a dashboard like it's a cat's head, it'll be still be too soon.

 

Cons

• Very low handling capabilities
• Longer-than-average braking distances
• Disconnected steering feel
• Uncomfortable front passenger seat

To be honest, this list describes, in my big-time sports car enthusiast terms, nearly every car available today, except for the seats.

Its a bit of the small details-itis. Things that you think are important right now, in application, end up not being important. If you are coming from a Bolt, well. Those don't handle well, and you love the car right?

I wouldn't really worry about those things. If you want handling and 95-105 foot 60-0 stopping distances, get a sports car.


There is a saying: Cheap, Fast, Reliable. Pick 2.

That will apply here as well. Affordable, PHEV/EV, AWD. You'll probably have to pick 2.

With that said, Affordable is subjective. Some people think $60,000 is affordable.

To be honest, a Volt with snow tires would probably do everything you need it to do. Its waaaaaay cheaper than the insane markup and MSRP on RAV4 Primes. Hell, I'd go with an e-awd Prius before paying that much for a RAV4 Prime. You can basically buy 2 slightly used e-awd Priii for a single new RAV4 Prime.

 

To be honest, this list describes, in my big-time sports car enthusiast terms, nearly every car available today, except for the seats.

Its a bit of the small details-itis. Things that you think are important right now, in application, end up not being important. If you are coming from a Bolt, well. Those don't handle well, and you love the car right?

I wouldn't really worry about those things. If you want handling and 95-105 foot 60-0 stopping distances, get a sports car.

Agree, one wouldn't choose a Bolt as a track-day ride, however, JMHO, but within the performance envelope one can actually use on the street, the Bolt feels nimble, has accurate steering and quick, linear response.

My questions were based upon reading reviewers comments. The link to owners comments didn't give a feeling many car guys have bought the RAV4 Prime, but then how many enthusiasts buy anything from Toyota?

Bottom line - I've driven a few newer CUV/SUVs which feel like driving a video game. There's no direct connection between engine and throttle, between steering, braking and what's happening at the wheels. With the CVT, I'm concerned how the RAV4 Prime would feel after the battery is gone and it's depending on ICE.

jack vines

 

The specifications of the Toyota RAV4 Prime look great on paper, but those car guys I respect who have driven one say it's a dog with fleas. Even Edmunds, who's usually pretty accurate says:
Cons

• Very low handling capabilities
• Longer-than-average braking distances
• Disconnected steering feel
• Uncomfortable front passenger seat

None of the Toyota dealers here have a demo for test drives, so I can't try one myself. Their attitude, "There's a waiting list for the Prime, give us a deposit and we'll call you when it comes. And yes, there's market price adjustment."

Those of you who have hands-on driving experience, are there any affordable AWD hybrids which are more fun-to drive than the RAV4 Prime?

jack vines

Here’s what real RAV4 Prime owners are saying:

How's the Rav4 Prime XSE drive?

Instead of auto press on the Rav4 Prime, how does it really drive? Does the larger battery make the vehicle feel bottom heavy? What's the likes and dislikes? In 2021, it's impossible to find a Prime in our area. If you find one, it's 5K or 10K markup from MSRP.

www.rav4world.com

 

me,,I like alcantara.

 

Plastic suede. I'm not against it but I think you hit the nail on the head. It's not that the reviewers are actually against plastic, they just prefer a different plastic. For me Alcantara is suitable for dash and door panels, but may want to avoid for steering wheels and seats as those heavy use areas might get worn down and shiny over time compared to leather. Adds about $1500 to $2500 or so to cost, about the same as leather if they were an option on the car.

Bottom line - tolerance for charging stops is sometimes distance-to-be-covered dependent. if one has the time for slow travel and the budget for additional overnights and sightseeing, then an EV is great. If the goal is to get to the destination in the minimum time and expense, not so much. Where is the best-of-both-worlds Volt when we need it?

jack vines

Yes, my family members who object to EV's are the drive without stopping kind. The only stops are refueling and bathroom. Otherwise it's 13 hours of straight driving. The goal is to get there as quickly as possible (without using a plane).

 

The Prime’s traction battery is buffered similarly to the Volt (and I imagine, all the other PHEVs). So your chances of losing the full 302 hp should be about the same...pretty slim.

We haven’t experienced any drop-off in performance driving up mountain passes. Though admittedly, we always leave extra charge in the battery for local driving.

The Prime also has a “Charge Mode” which is similar to Mountain Mode except you can charge to, I think, 80% of capacity.

 

Alcantara on the steering wheel sucks,,it mats down w/i a month or 2 of being cleaned.but it does come back nice and full.5 yrs and my steering wheel still looks mint.

 

Yes, my family members who object to EV's are the drive without stopping kind. The only stops are refueling and bathroom. Otherwise it's 13 hours of straight driving. The goal is to get there as quickly as possible (without using a plane).
[/QUOTE]

Im totally in that camp. Kalamazoo county Michigan to Wilmington NC is 14 hours of left lane, run with todays traffic (78-82 mph). Our 2011 Volt is perfect for this. Low center of gravity, aerodynamic, 33 to 36 mpg. Great sound system. It’s a 2 day drive with about $140ish in expenses for 1 overnight at the 1/2 way. (Charleston WV is a very cool city). The pure EV trip on this same route would surely extend it to 3 days with 2 overnight hotels, thereby negating any fuel savings. Wonder how much different the left lane at 80 mph experience would be in the RAV4 prime with its goofy shape and high center of gravity.

 

Is the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV still sold? I have a friend that has owned one for 3+ years and he likes it.

 

There is an all-new one with a Volt-like 54 miles of EV range. Very enticing indeed, if you are okay with the car itself.

Edit - sorry for the redundancy of this post. I did not even realize that I had already responded to this thread.

 

[QUOTE="caronjeff]
Wonder how much different the left lane at 80 mph experience would be in the RAV4 prime with its goofy shape and high center of gravity.
[/QUOTE]
I wonder about alot of ev's running that fast ,what there real world mileage would be.

 

Wonder how much different the left lane at 80 mph experience would be in the RAV4 prime with its goofy shape and high center of gravity.

I wonder about alot of ev's running that fast ,what there real world mileage would be.

It's pretty easy to find charts by just searching for ev efficiency vs speed, but 100MPH is about half the efficiency of 65MPH, which is about half the peak efficiency which is usually around 25 MPH.

 

I have both a 2015 Volt and a 2021 Rav4 Prime. I have owned Honda CRVs and have lots of time in modern Subarus and other Toyotas. The Prime is plenty of fun to drive wnen compared to the other AWD SUV options out there. For sure it's no Lambo, but that's not what it's for. The battery gives it a different, heavier feel than the regular RAV4 or CRV, but this is not unpleasant. Yes, you have to hit the brakes a bit harder than maybe you normally do, but you can still engage the ABS if you want/have to. It's got a ton of power, is easy to steer, handles as good as anything in this class, and a riot to drive when it's a bit slippery out. Gets the same MPKw as the Volt, has far greater visibility from inside, and actually has a heater that works. All that and a (temporary) spare tire! (Two reasons I dislike the Volt). I'm exceedingly pleased with this car.