I don't think that there is any difference in MPG from driving D or L. At least that's what I recall reading on a thread (can't recall which) here.

That's why this forum is so good ... lots of people with different experiences.

I myself have switched while driving from D to L but find it slightly jarring to my hand

 

I assume the point of this thread is to discuss 2 foot driving and the pros and cons?

On efficiency; coasting the Volt is the most efficient mode of operation so (due to the programming of the Volt's systems - this logic does not apply to other cars programmed differently) it is theoretically impossible for driving in L to do anything but reduce the car's efficiency. (Not all threads point this out well, but the better ones on the topic do.)


Here is a good article that discusses some of the ups and downs of two foot driving, including the transmission-centered rationale: https://www.vox.com/2015/7/1/8877583/two-foot-driving-pedal-error

We still have the engineering and design problem with 2 foot driving... The engineers designing the cars today and (more importantly) programming them are assuming we are driving with one foot. So, different cars will behave differently in the edge cases; namely when both pedals are pressed at the same time:
- Following the Toyota unintended acceleration problems (as this article points out), some cars were programmed to cut power to the engine whenever the brake was pressed. Some were not.
- Some cars, particularly conventional front wheel drive cars, will buck wildly when both pedals are pressed.
- Conventional rear wheel cars (with a forward brake bias) will tend to spin out when both pedals are pressed. (This is really bad...)

^ So, two foot driving definitely doesn't work safely for all cars. Before one tries it, I would advise that the particular car be taken to a large open lot to see how things behave when both pedals are pressed at speed. (Better to find this out in a benign environment than on a highway.)

I've also experimented with this in the past and do use two feet to launch the car a little quicker at stop lights, but stick with one foot due to habits. These are a really powerful thing and I don't want to get used to something that may not work on a rental or another one of my cars. (For example, I keep reaching for the regen paddle on my conventional cars and have had some odd "oh-****" moments going around curves and not finding the paddle!)

 

- Conventional rear wheel cars (with a forward brake bias) will tend to spin out when both pedals are pressed. (This is really bad...)

Or a lot of fun in the right environment.

 

I can't count how many people that I've followed in the past that are braking with their left foot, "not riding the brake" but have their brake lights on much of the time.
I'll stick to using the right foot...

 

Two foot driving is for driving race cars with paddle/electronic shifters because it reduces by fractions of a second response times under braking which can make the difference between passing or being passed. Everybody wants to be a race cars driver. If you need that extra braking time you are following too close. In those 50 car highway pileups the reason they aren't 70 car pileups is because car 51 had left enough space.

 

wssix99 - Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I did intend that thread to be mostly about 2-foot driving, but use of the L mode and regenerative braking are sort of related since braking can be so different in EVs. I can see where coasting can be more economical, but the single pedal driving is so much more enjoyable. On long expressway driving when on gas, I consistently get 42-47 mpg driving 65-70 mph so I am satisfied with that.

When I first started this over 10 years ago, I did find some information along the lines of the article that you linked to, but this one from Vox was much more detailed so I appreciated that.

It definitely takes some practice in low risk situations. At the very first, my right foot would beat my left foot to the brake in a sudden emergency stop. Next, both would arrive at the same time and after a little more practice, there was no confusion. That said, it does take some determination and I am not recommending it to everyone. After the initial month or two of getting used to it, the advantages in fluidity seem so worth it, including the quick launch!

As for riding the break, yes that can be annoying and I am quite sure that I don't. Most of the time my left foot is off to the side not hovering. I just naturally hover in situations that would need it like traffic merges or at intersections. For sudden, emergency stops it doesn't take any longer to get the idle left foot to the brake then to lift the right foot off the accelerator and mover it over.

Since 2-foot driving, I have driven many different cars, including rentals, and it is true that some cars have the brake pedal further to the right based on the design assumption of the single foot use. I have not found it to be a real problem, although I make sure that the car that I own has nicely positioned pedals which the Volt does.

 

FI Spyder - I am usually hypermiling and always leave lots of room in front of me since the one in back is always responsible. My daily commute is on the 4-lane Rt 128 just outside of Boston that has some of the heaviest traffic in the country at rush hour so not a race track. I actually started this practice when I had some chronic right hip pain (now gone) and I wanted to take stress off the right side. It ended up being more enjoyable to drive this way and might even be safer, although I can't say that for sure. I thought that folks on this forum might be more open minded instead of quick to dismiss. Did you see this article?
https://www.vox.com/2015/7/1/8877583...ng-pedal-error

 

what car do you have,,I'll keep an eye out for you,,there only 1 ELR(black w/ a green license plate) driving around on rt128 and thats me,,using 2 feet,switching betw. D and L

 

not unnatural to me.and I've owned a few stick shift cars. to each is own.you'll never convince me otherwise.

 

So, if MGB cannot act as a motor and a generator at the same time, what happens in a Gen 1 Volt when you step on the brake pedal with your left foot while the right is still depressing the accelerator?

Do the friction brakes immediately engage?

Does pressing the brake pedal disengage the accelerator, allowing MGB to be used for regenerative braking?

What about pressing the brake pedal with the left foot while the right is pressing the accelerator in a Gen 2 Volt, where the two planetary gear configuration allows MGB to create negative torque (i.e., regen) in some driving conditions while propulsion torque is still being applied by the other motor and/or engine? Friction brakes? Regenerative braking?

 

These are good questions. Somewhere either on this thread or or another one, someone pointed out that many cars now disengage the accelerator if the brake is activated. The poster said that it definitely does for Gen2 but I don't think they knew about Gen1. In over 10 years of driving this way (even during practice at the beginning), I have never pressed both at the same time, it just doesn't happen that way, perhaps because you naturally lift off the accelerator when braking and the two feet are always pivoting forward or back in the opposite direction and never in the same direction.

One doesn't keep the left foot positioned right over the brake all the time (certainly not touching it), you just pivot it over when approaching intersections or tricky traffic situations. Most of the time, the left foot, especially with one-pedal driving in an EV, is just angled or resting off to the side. With right foot braking (where a bit of lifting may be required) in an emergency stop, there may well be more movement required than getting the left foot on the brake if it were not already positioned over it. When the left foot has already been pivoted in position in anticipation of braking, it is quicker to actually apply of course.

 

I don't think the two feet driving argument is valid. Seems like it would lead to more possible confusion using the brake and throttle and there's seldom a sensible reason to use both simultaneously. Heck, if it works for you, great.

 

don't knock it till you've tried it.lol

 

I can see both sides of this. It makes sense that you could brake faster with the left foot. It is also worth noting that go-carts are often set up to be driven that way with the brake pedal only accessible using the left foot. As for compatibility with driving manual transmission cars, they are getting rare in the new car market, but there are still some older ones on the road. And manual transmission cars are still what you will most likely get if you rent a car in Europe and probably some other parts of the world. So unless you never learned how to drive an MT, it's possible you could need to drive one occasionally.

I think the biggest con to left foot braking is that some drivers will have their foot in contact with the brake pedal all the time, and in most cars that will keep the brake lights on constantly, which negates the purpose of the brake lights because following traffic is not alerted when the driver slows. Also, any light but continuous engagement of the brakes by this slight foot pressure would be bad for brake reliability, brake maintenance intervals, and fuel economy. For these reasons, I think it is a bad idea to encourage other people to drive that way. But if you can do it correctly, have at it.

 

In the days of manual transmissions, "riding the clutch" could lead to mechanical problems.

Wikipedia says, "A common example of riding the clutch is to keep slight continual pressure on the clutch pedal whilst driving, as when a driver habitually rests his/her foot on the clutch pedal instead of on the floorboard or dead pedal. Although this slight pressure is not enough to allow the clutch disc itself to slip, it is enough to keep the release bearing against the release springs. This causes the bearing to remain spinning, which leads to premature bearing failure."

In similar manner, I would think two foot driving can result in "riding the brake pedal," which, at the least, could illuminate the brake lights as you drive, even when you are not intentionally trying to brake.

If resting your left foot on the brake pedal is pressure enough to turn on the brake lights, then "riding the brake" when driving with two feet could lead to unexpected consequences.

If the pressure on the Volt accelerator prevents the regenerative braking system from engaging, then "riding the brake" could result in more frequent use of the Volt’s friction braking system, resulting in increasing costs for brake system maintenance.

If the Volt is engineered to disengage the throttle when the brake pedal is depressed, then "riding the brake" could lead to unexpected losses of propulsion power (pressure on the brake pedal cuts off fuel to the motor).

 

The concern about riding the brake has come up a lot in the posts here for two main reasons: annoying or improperly/unsafely communicating with the person behind and perhaps causing mechanical wear or damage.

To just clear up whether the Volt disengages the throttle when the brake is activated, I did some gentle testing today in an empty area of a parking lot. There was no disengagement at all in either L or D. (I did not try slamming it on!)

Therefore, if riding the brake during 2-feet driving occurs, it would create both problems and, if that's what you are doing then don't do it. However, there is absolutely no need to ride the brake (like old people used to do) and, I would argue, may even be harder to do than not to do.

The left foot is pivoted or resting off to the side on either the dead pedal or the dead space, whichever is more comfortable. When coming up on someone from behind, up to stop light, or whatever. when rapid slowing is needed, the right foot comes off the accelerator and the left foot hovers at or goes on the brake. In sudden emergency or panic stops, it happens instantly. It is very easy and automatic, once learned, with no riding of the break (ever) and no confusion or hesitation. This is certainly much less complicated and easier to learn than driving a standard (4 of my early cars).

Someone mentioned the possible need to drive a standard while renting a car in Europe. My recent experience was that automatics are now readily available since the rental companies would have a lot of difficulty with the majority of American tourists who may not know how to drive a standard or not want to. Just for fun, I have tried driving a standard a few times since converting to left foot driving (Jetta, WRX, and 1965 Jeep). In each case, my muscle memory came right back after the first shift and there was no confusion. I am not recommending this, however if you actually own a standard.

 

As I originally mentioned, this started a long time ago before my right hip surgery when I wanted to take some strain off the right hip and knee during rush hour commuting. I gave it a try and eventually found it to be more fluid, enjoyable, and effective. EV driving and ownership itself takes an open mind, sense of adventure, and different mindset. Single-pedal driving with regenerative braking is one of the things that many of us particularly enjoy.

Along those lines, I thought that there would be a bit more openness (there was some) and curiosity about the idea of left foot braking as a possible better way. As we would say to ICE drivers, you don't know until you try and we would never go back!

 

Along those lines, I thought that there would be a bit more openness (there was some) and curiosity about the idea of left foot braking as a possible better way. As we would say to ICE drivers, you don't know until you try and we would never go back!

Right, but you didn't just get in your car one day and do it naturally. This takes a lot of practice to get right.

This is a perfectly valid driving technique, particularly for high performance driving. (It must be used in order to perform the bootleg turn that I posted earlier.) So, I think people are trying to point out that this takes a lot of practice, and isn't a universal technique due to the dynamics of different cars and the skill levels of different drivers. On the wrong car, at the wrong time, with a missed technique; bad things could happen.

This would be a lot easier if the car was designed for it from the beginning. In addition to having tweaks to some of the car's programming, I'll bet you would probably really like it if the brake pedal was positioned a little further left, away from the gas pedal, and more square with your shoulders?

 

In 2009 I had my right hip replaced. Complications left me with neurologic problems with my right foot, and muscle problems in the right hip. The combination made driving with one foot very difficult. While I can drive with one foot, it is difficult to get my right foot off the accelerator, and onto the brake very quickly or accurately. So, I learned, very easily, to drive with two feet. I NEVER ride the brake with my left foot, always keeping my left foot on the foot rest to the left.

Also, I find that driving in L means less need to use the brake at all, in many situations driving on surface streets. Fuel/battery economy is not my goal. The goal is personal economy in not having to use energy simply to slow the car down.

By the way, touch wood, in 60 years of driving, my only collision was when an oncoming driver made a prohibited U-turn directly into my oncoming car many years ago.

 

Also, I find that driving in L means less need to use the brake at all, in many situations driving on surface streets. Fuel/battery economy is not my goal. The goal is personal economy in not having to use energy simply to slow the car down.

Have you taken a look at the hand control retrofit options there are on the market for cars? (There are many different styles to actuate the gas and brake.) You may find these even more flexible and comfortable.


I had a seized SI joint in my back last year and it was really painful to use the brake pedal during that time. Thank goodness for the Volt. I was on the regen paddle constantly and recall wishing I could control everything from paddles.

 

well I did a brake test

if your stopped and on the brake,then step on the electron transfer switch,nothing happens
if you are moving/applying a command for more electrons and hit the regen paddles,nothing happens,still moving forward.
now if you hit the brake peddle,you need to really apply it to feel the friction brakes come on.if I then hit the go peddle harder and release the brakes while moving,it like to break the tires loose.
any way,thats what my car does.
time to drive the truck to the cape.

 

I fussed at my uncle for braking with his left foot. But he's 93 years old and drove a standard for most of his life. He ain't gonna change now!

 

I went out plowing this morning,42 driveways,,all w/ left foot braking.