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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-faces-labor-discord-as-it-ramps-up-model-3-production-1509442202

No wonder Tesla is so anti-union. If the UAW was able to unionize the Fremont workers, Elon would no longer be able to force overtime on these poor workers than feel they need to work the overtime or risk getting fired "for performance". And no way Tesla would be able to meet Elon's fantasy goals either with a unionized workforce.

With quarterly production targets looming, Tesla managers required longer hours and weekend work. One hourly worker recalled working 13 straight days. “They went by with carts and dollies full of Red Bull and threw them out to everybody,” he said. “It felt like we literally lived there.”

Unlike traditional unionized factories that schedule overtime in advance, Tesla’s workweek could change with little notice, workers said. Several of them said they feared losing their jobs if they didn’t work the overtime.

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People who worked on the Model X say injuries likely multiplied during the nine-month production ramp-up because Tesla’s design team didn’t factor in enough of the effects of repetitive labor. For example, Tesla designed middle-row seats to appear like they rested on a pedestal, requiring dozens of extra bolts. Those bolts kept stripping, so workers had to crawl into the vehicle to twist each one by hand, these people said.

:rolleyes:
 

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it is a startup mentality. there are many who would work there under those conditions for the money
Agreed but how long will/can they continue working like that? Building cars is a whole lot different than banging out code at a desk late at night. I guess there's always the Chinese method of keeping the workers at the factory compounds, putting up suicide fences on the roof tops, etc. :)
 

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WSJ is paywalled. Why are they regurgitating 2016 Model X issues? Ancient history.

In an innovative+entrepreneurial environment, it is not unusual to work 80 or more hours a week. I've done it in my youth. We worked 60 hours for 5 days and 40 hours for the weekend to meet goals. Sleeping under your cubical was common. The rewards outweighed some physical discomfort.

Contrary to this discussion, goals are set by the team not by management. If you miss the market, you may leave your bonus/options on the table. We didn't have to RIF anyone. They quit if they couldn't cut it.

Apple had a program with "99-hour" tee-shirts to acknowledge the extra effort.

Turning all this over to a bloated and ineffective union would be the death of innovation.
 

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it is a startup mentality. there are many who would work there under those conditions for the money
Start up employees are more enthusiastic when they can look forward to a piece of the action. I doubt that is part of Elon's plan.

KNS
 

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In an innovative+entrepreneurial environment,
Apples to oranges. 80/hrs at a desk, grueling as that is, is nothing like 80 hours of manual labor. Heck, skip the labor part and just try standing for 80 hrs/wk.

Anyways, who wants an tired, overstressed worker (be it an engineer upstairs or line worker on the floor) designing/building their car? Especially after the hoopla around the initial (real) release fades.
 

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https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-faces-labor-discord-as-it-ramps-up-model-3-production-1509442202

No wonder Tesla is so anti-union. If the UAW was able to unionize the Fremont workers, Elon would no longer be able to force overtime on these poor workers than feel they need to work the overtime or risk getting fired "for performance". And no way Tesla would be able to meet Elon's fantasy goals either with a unionized workforce.

With quarterly production targets looming, Tesla managers required longer hours and weekend work. One hourly worker recalled working 13 straight days. “They went by with carts and dollies full of Red Bull and threw them out to everybody,” he said. “It felt like we literally lived there.”

Unlike traditional unionized factories that schedule overtime in advance, Tesla’s workweek could change with little notice, workers said. Several of them said they feared losing their jobs if they didn’t work the overtime.

.
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People who worked on the Model X say injuries likely multiplied during the nine-month production ramp-up because Tesla’s design team didn’t factor in enough of the effects of repetitive labor. For example, Tesla designed middle-row seats to appear like they rested on a pedestal, requiring dozens of extra bolts. Those bolts kept stripping, so workers had to crawl into the vehicle to twist each one by hand, these people said.

:rolleyes:
Gee...I thought Tesla vehicles were built by robots on the most modern assembly line in the automotive world...:rolleyes:
 

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I'm shocked at the amount of vitrol aimed at people who work with their hands. Having said that, California has some fairly stiff labor laws so there are significant limits on what employers can do. Overall the production line seems horrible. Having to beat door panels with rubber mallets? Doesn't make for a happy place to work or for happy customers. No wonder the Model X was such a wreck.

The big problem for Tesla is on the PR front. While many during WW II were happy sleeping on mattresses stuffed with human hair from gas chamber victims, most people today don't even want vehicles made on assembly lines with harsh conditions. Tesla has made a big deal of wanting to save the world and this undercuts that meme. It also has practical consequences. Tesla may need a bailout bill from CA, and stories like this makes that less likely to happen.

In an innovative+entrepreneurial environment, it is not unusual to work 80 or more hours a week. I've done it in my youth. We worked 60 hours for 5 days and 40 hours for the weekend to meet goals. Sleeping under your cubical was common. The rewards outweighed some physical discomfort.
In my experience you can expect about 5 good hours a day from a programmer. After that performance falls off precipitously. When someone would go further and pull an all nighter we'd have to spend three days unwinding the code and making it right. LOL

Apples to oranges. 80/hrs at a desk, grueling as that is, is nothing like 80 hours of manual labor. Heck, skip the labor part and just try standing for 80 hrs/wk.
Different types of fatigue but your point is well taken.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Anyways, who wants an tired, overstressed worker (be it an engineer upstairs or line worker on the floor) designing/building their car? Especially after the hoopla around the initial (real) release fades.
People who received end of quarter build Teslas definitely don't. But it's already too late for them.
 

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Gee...I thought Tesla vehicles were built by robots on the most modern assembly line in the automotive world...:rolleyes:
LOL, I get your joking sarcasm but if they do finally get the machine that builds the machines working at 100% there will be precious few humans working the line.

On an aside, I recently saw some news on walmart implementing robot floor walkers that will scan the shelves for restocking/reordering. Another ground floor basic job lost. Millions have been lost before to automation but an important difference here is the out in the public view aspect and not an out-of-sight, out-of-mind loss.
 

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In an innovative+entrepreneurial environment, it is not unusual to work 80 or more hours a week. I've done it in my youth. We worked 60 hours for 5 days and 40 hours for the weekend to meet goals. ..

Contrary to this discussion, goals are set by the team not by management....

Turning all this over to a bloated and ineffective union would be the death of innovation.
It was Unions that made this sort of thing NOT the norm.
You can thank the 40 hr work week to the Unions.

Contrary to your claim, I doubt the 'Team' is saying "Let's work like 99-hr a week fools". That would be a Management demand.
This is not normal healthy behavior.

The FAA does not allow aircraft technicians to work crazy schedules like this, for a reason.
But we're talking about cars here, Safety is not as critical, correct?
 

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It appears Tesla may have labor-skill and Japanese/American work culture problems at the Reno Gigafactory that may dwarf the union and overtime problems at the Fremont plant. These problems, along with logistical and utility reliability problems, may be at the root of the glacial Model 3 rollout and are not readily "fixable". The apparent work & management culture throughout Tesla appears very unhealthy. This is not how one grows to be a global auto manufacturer.

https://disqus.com/by/endeep/

Reading the posts in this link, it appears Elon made a giga-rookie mistake in selecting Sparks NV as the site for the Gigafactory. Poor access. Unreliable utilities. Untrained and inexperienced local labor and management workforce. Production equipment parts that must be custom-made in Japan. And a complex hybrid corporate & management structure with Panasonic that appears to accentuate the worst of both cultures.
 

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Production ramp-up is hell for many at the Detroit 3. I could give dozens of personal experiences. They have unions too.
 

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It appears Tesla may have labor-skill and Japanese/American work culture problems at the Reno Gigafactory that may dwarf the union and overtime problems at the Fremont plant. These problems, along with logistical and utility reliability problems, may be at the root of the glacial Model 3 rollout and are not readily "fixable". The apparent work & management culture throughout Tesla appears very unhealthy. This is not how one grows to be a global auto manufacturer.

https://disqus.com/by/endeep/

Reading the posts in this link, it appears Elon made a giga-rookie mistake in selecting Sparks NV as the site for the Gigafactory. Poor access. Unreliable utilities. Untrained and inexperienced local labor and management workforce. Production equipment parts that must be custom-made in Japan. And a complex hybrid corporate & management structure with Panasonic that appears to accentuate the worst of both cultures.
Very interesting since he requires his executives to be "special forces" types while he makes rookie mistakes.

Autoblog interviewed Musk and he commented that: “the general understanding is that if you’re at Tesla, you’re choosing to be at the equivalent of Special Forces.
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/11/22/working-elon-musk-like-special-forces/

Apparently executives aren't the only ones worked to a breaking point.

Musk is the boss from hell. He simply can't grasp how people are. The man has some serious psychological issues. it's understandable given his past, but it makes him the worst kind of leader. Fortune seems to agree:

Admire Elon Musk all you want, but please don’t manage like him

Some article quotes from DailyMailUK that I find disturbing:

If marketing people made grammatical mistakes in emails, they were let go.

Intimidating, he told employees, 'I want you to think ahead and think so hard every day that your head hurts. I want your head to hurt every night when you go to bed'.

He had tirades at suppliers who let him down and talked of balls being chopped off or and other violent or sexual acts.

He spit coffee across a conference room table because it was cold.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3197108/How-Elon-Musk-endured-psychological-torture-father-told-wife-fired-married-22-year-old-VIRGIN-met-London-club-telling-wanted-rocket.html

Basically he's turned into a spoiled brat sociopath. In some ways he reminds me of Oprah Winfrey. :D

There's more but I don't feel like going into it. Ask his mom if you must know.

In an innovative+entrepreneurial environment, it is not unusual to work 80 or more hours a week. I've done it in my youth. We worked 60 hours for 5 days and 40 hours for the weekend to meet goals. Sleeping under your cubical was common. The rewards outweighed some physical discomfort.
......
Apple had a program with "99-hour" tee-shirts to acknowledge the extra effort.

Turning all this over to a bloated and ineffective union would be the death of innovation.
I'm by no means unfamiliar with this concept. What I see many being unfamiliar with is that it can't be SOP.

Death of innovation my @$$. Working yourself stupid leads to much more stupid. If you ever thought working like that made you anything but less effective overall, it was probably the taurine in your Red Bull fooling you.

As for Apple, Jobs was a similar kind of @$$hole to Musk. When he worked at Atari Nolan Bushnell had to create a night shift for him to work alone. He was that abrasive toward his fellow workers.

And just for fun : Elon Musk's mom is super low on the Tesla Model 3 waiting list
 

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Very interesting since he requires his executives to be "special forces" types while he makes rookie mistakes.



https://cleantechnica.com/2016/11/22/working-elon-musk-like-special-forces/

Apparently executives aren't the only ones worked to a breaking point.

Musk is the boss from hell. He simply can't grasp how people are. The man has some serious psychological issues. it's understandable given his past, but it makes him the worst kind of leader. Fortune seems to agree:

Admire Elon Musk all you want, but please don’t manage like him

Some article quotes from DailyMailUK that I find disturbing:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3197108/How-Elon-Musk-endured-psychological-torture-father-told-wife-fired-married-22-year-old-VIRGIN-met-London-club-telling-wanted-rocket.html

Basically he's turned into a spoiled brat sociopath. In some ways he reminds me of Oprah Winfrey. :D

There's more but I don't feel like going into it. Ask his mom if you must know.



I'm by no means unfamiliar with this concept. What I see many being unfamiliar with is that it can't be SOP.

Death of innovation my @$$. Working yourself stupid leads to much more stupid. If you ever thought working like that made you anything but less effective overall, it was probably the taurine in your Red Bull fooling you.

As for Apple, Jobs was a similar kind of @$$hole to Musk. When he worked at Atari Nolan Bushnell had to create a night shift for him to work alone. He was that abrasive toward his fellow workers.

And just for fun : Elon Musk's mom is super low on the Tesla Model 3 waiting list
Funny...I was thinking of someone else...:)
 

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Similar IQs, but I don't see it. Besides, one of them means to keep his promises. That and they're both quite Twittery. You just don't have Musk's every tweet on the news.
Unless you are an EV true believer or an investor (bull or bear)...:)
 
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