Dude the leaf is NOT gonna become a collectable, that thing is hideous, not like could become collectable car hideous, but "every one of these should be destroyed" hideous

 

lol nissan leaf looks like a frog and theyre barely making any of the new ones right now.
they made way too many of the early gens for them to be collectable.
some interesting compliance cars of the same era might become collectable like the chevy spark ev or b-class.
imo people need to figure out how to remfg battery packs first or atleast how to spoof/man in the middle attack the cars electronics to accept other battery packs. this might be the only thing the leaf has going for it since a lot of people use them for ev conversions.

one person has figured out how to shove a gen2 volt battery into a gen1 but there are some issues with fixturing which required special parts and some canbus software side of things. imo someone needs to figure out how to get the volt to run on cheap lfp, working on it right now.
its just like how most super cars with their super expensive 1 off tires usually require someone to come out with an adapter kit/lug assembly for owners to enjoy. i think the f1, veyron, and testarosa all require similar mods to be done to enjoy them. i think the old diablos/countach's have the issue with 1 off tires too that people have been finding ways around. lot of farraris and stuff driving around with 3d printed dash components now days. almost started a print farm in 2012 to start doing this but got into making gun stuff instead


"chevy volt" from 1916

 

I'd like to think the Volt would have some historical value and, by extension, value for collectors.
We'll see.

 

the volt i think will have very good value in the future, i think they look good too.

 

It is fun to think about in relation to the Volt (Leaf always was a tu*d). I just don't see it likely at this moment unless many innovative folks can figure out how to replace parts no longer available from GM...like ones that need programming. The boneyards should be able to supply non electrical parts for a long time into the future but electrical items could prove to be challenging. People do however put cars away in barns and such only to be discovered many years into the future.

The Volt is so unique however it just might become a collectible.

 

At the very least, the Volt should have a place in some automotive museums.

 

I think the Volt is the "hot rod" of compliance cars. A car that's actually fun to drive and that you want to be seen in. The Leaf, not so much. Now, if we can just find traction batteries for these things...

 

They won't last that long. Key electrical parts like instrument panels, BECMs, controllers etc will fail and become irreplaceable. If "collector car" means sitting in a museum, then perhaps yes, it will attain that status but as something akin to the '67 Mustang my brother drives to club events, no way.

 

The main idea of combined chemistry is gaining safety AND efficiency. LFP and LTO are known to be stable to thermal runaway and physical damage compared to LNMC. Besides, LFP is cheap, yes. The main flaw of LFP is its inability to take charge at below freezing temps. Thus we need a heater, which eats juice, OR, we can try using a small LTO buffer for regen charging. So, the contactor is only needed for isolation of LFP from regen charge at low temps. The current gauge will measure the overall current taken from LTO+LFP or pushed to LTO (+LFP if temp is high enough).

As for emulation of original 96 cells for BECM, small cells could be used, but they will be prone to disbalance due to low quality or will cost much. I may be not that good at analog schematics and miss some obvious thing, but I simulated N capacitors/resistors, which divide the overall voltage by N. They are way cheaper, than LNMC cells, even small. The only thing we need to do is mimic the voltage curve of LFP to LNMC, maybe with a common resistor divider, controlled by software.

Rough count suggests 112*i LFP cells (i stands for a factor) and 150 147 LTO cells. The latter could be 33140 10 Ah cells, which will give ~3.5 3.6 kWh, taking (W x H x L) 255 mm x 244 214 mm x 310 465 mm of battery tray (stacked 7 x 8 x 2 7 x 7 x 3).

 

Post omitted

 

In the year 2070 the Volt will be rare and a curiosity. There are already a few that have been stashed for posterity. Others will just somehow survive but not many.

 

In the year 2070

... some teenager will plug a pocket sized battery module into the USB port of the Volt and drive 100 miles on electricity!

 

Rough count suggests 112*i LFP cells (i stands for a factor) and 150 LTO cells. The latter could be 33140 10 Ah cells, which will give ~3.5 kWh, taking (W x H x L) 255 mm x 244 mm x 310 mm of battery tray (stacked 7 x 8 x 2).

Actually smaller than I thought. What about the weight?

parelleling LTO and LFP is a really good idea.

I like that (thinking they have complimentary properties). Could we call it a hybrid hybrid battery?

 

I made a mistake in my previous post. But all of this is just a quick sketch anyway...

147 33140 LTO cells will take (W x H x L) 255 mm x 214 mm x 465 mm of battery tray (stacked 7 x 7 x 3 in front next to original contactors) and weigh ~40 kg.

112 LFP cells could be 55 Ah prismatic 147 mm x 130 mm x 29 mm ones, taking 260 mm x 240 mm x 296 mm + 260 mm x 240 mm x 740 mm (stacked 2 x 8 x 2 next to LTO + 2 x 8 x 5 under the back seat) and weigh ~112 kg.

Overall capacity should be 23.3 kWh with net cells weight of 152 kg. Need to add some cooling and body hardware here, though. So, maybe we need smaller cells, but that's what I've found.

Actually, there was an article in 2018 about LFP+LTO, though I found it later seaching for any references to combining different battery types.

 

And byd has 25k throw aways. The point? compare to ps gaming rig .

 

No they already filling up salvage yards . GM offering buy outs to get you out a car. if you hold hard on repairs they'll try n make examples of ... Trade for older bolt w new battery.

 

!arry4pyro,

I don't think either the Volt or the Nisan Leaf will be more than static (can't move) museum pieces. Only someone like Jay Leno could spend a $100K+ to re-engineer the Volts battery and re-program the Volt's BECM system. IMO for the average income person, there would be no reason to have a static display Volt or Leaf or either one as yard ornaments.

Stephen

 

Thanks for the interesting and varied opinions. I should have posted the actual AI response initially, but I thought it was too long. Here is what the AI bot said:

“There is a strong possibility that early models of the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt will become collectible cars
due to their historical significance as first-generation mass-produced electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles. The likelihood of them becoming highly sought-after, however, depends on several factors, including their rarity, long-term battery performance, and the growth of electric vehicle (EV) nostalgia.

Why the Leaf and Volt are considered historically significant
Car experts and collectors already identify the Leaf and Volt as milestone cars representing the auto industry's shift toward electrification.

• Pioneering mass-market EVs: The first-generation Nissan Leaf, introduced in 2010, was one of the first affordable, mass-produced all-electric cars offered to the public in the modern era. Similarly, the first-generation Chevrolet Volt(2011-2015) was a groundbreaking plug-in hybrid that eased consumer anxiety about range by including a gasoline-powered engine to generate electricity for the battery.
• Historical precedent: Early electric vehicles from the 19th and early 20th centuries, such as the Milburn Electric and Baker Electric, are already highly collectible and valuable. The Leaf and Volt occupy a similar place as the pioneers of the modern EV movement.
• Nostalgia factor: Collectors are increasingly interested in cars from the 1980s and 1990s as new generations enter the market. This indicates that a similar wave of nostalgia for the earliest modern EVs will likely happen in the coming decades.

Factors that influence collectibility

Factors that favor the Volt

• Limited availability: General Motors discontinued the Chevy Volt in 2019, meaning its production run was limited and there is a finite number of them available.
• Collector interest: Models with limited production and unique styling, such as the Volt-based Cadillac ELR, are already drawing interest from collectors. The ELR's scarcity and connection to the Volt platform could boost interest in early Volts.
• First-generation appeal: The first-generation Volt (2011–2015) has a particularly devoted following. As one of the first "modern" hybrids to hit the market, it could attract collectors seeking an icon of early EV technology.

Factors that hinder the Leaf

• High production numbers: While the Volt had a limited run, the Nissan Leaf has been in continuous production for much longer, which generally lessens its rarity.
• Widespread production: The Leaf has been built in various locations and is not particularly rare, unlike certain exotic or special-edition cars.
• Significant battery degradation: Early Leaf models are known for rapid battery degradation, which could make maintaining them a significant challenge for collectors.
• Lower appeal and design: Unlike more aspirational or aesthetically striking EVs like the Tesla Roadster, the Leaf was marketed as an affordable, mass-market car. While this is historically significant, it may not create the same level of collector demand.

The rise of the "electric classic car" market
The growth of the classic car market has already shown a trend toward modernizing vintage vehicles with electric technology. This market, combining classic aesthetics with modern EV powertrains, is expected to grow significantly over the next decade.
This trend, along with the historical significance of the Leaf and Volt, suggests that they will become collectible in the future. However, early models of the Leaf are less likely to achieve high value than early Volts due to factors like production numbers and battery performance.

AI can make mistakes, so double-check responses”

 

Thanks for the interesting and varied opinions. I should have posted the actual AI response initially, but I thought it was too long. Here is what the AI bot said:

“There is a strong possibility that early models of the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt will become collectible cars
due to their historical significance as first-generation mass-produced electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles...

...the first-generation Chevrolet Volt(2011-2015) was a groundbreaking plug-in hybrid that eased consumer anxiety about range by including a gasoline-powered engine to generate electricity for the battery...

One observation rarely made is that the Gen 1 Volt "range extender" concept included the use of generator output as a power source for creating fuel for the electric motor, not just as a power source for recharging the battery.

The Gen 1 Volt was designed to use its electric propulsion system at all times, and is capable of extending the "battery-only" range an additional 300+ "electric-like" miles using the battery as the motor’s source of acceleration power (supplemented by generator output) and output from the 55 kW generator as the motor’s source of "moving down the road at a steady speed" power.

GM engineered the Gen 1 Volt’s planetary gear configuration as its solution to the issue of electric motor increasing inefficiency at higher speeds. Clutching a second motor/generator to the ring gear allowed the vehicle propulsion torque to become a more efficient blend of the outputs of two motor/generators. By adjusting the relative speed of the two, the vehicle propulsion torque demand could be met while minimizing total fuel consumption. At freeway speeds in Electric Mode, for example, where both motors are battery-fueled, fuel consumption reduction in two-motor configuration provides an additional 1-2 ev miles of highway steady speed range.

Even at lower speeds, driving the Gen 1 Volt at a steady speed in two-motor configuration while the engine is cranking MGA as a generator can minimize the use of gas (i.e., reduces MGB’s demand for generator output, so less gas is burned in the generator than when maintaining the same speed while driving in one-motor configuration). Unfortunately, operating the Gen 1 Volt in two-motor configuration while the gas engine is cranking MGA as a generator also means the gas engine torque is contributing to the propulsion torque ("gas-assisted" electric propulsion), sullying the "purity" of the Gen 1 Volt’s extended range "electric-like" performance.

 

Oh boy . Yall stay phased this forum don't even work. How the fek . Text dont appear on screen disgusting