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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It may feel that way, but GM is not treading water. GM is now devoting more R&D to EV development ($27 billion through 2025) than to gas-powered vehicles.

Some examples,
  • BrightDrop, the "last mile" delivery EV600 delivery van and EVP1 motorized pallet.
  • The Cruise Automation Origin self driving ride-share vehicle. We’re Cruise, a self-driving car service designed for the cities we love.
  • The Ultium Cells, LLC battery. Zero Emission | Advanced Technology | Ultium Cells LLC
  • Ultium Lordstown $2.3 billion battery gigafactory with construction underway, 2025 production.
  • A Bolt EV refresh (Summer 2021). The upcoming Bolt EUV with SuperCruise (summer 2021), GMC Hummer EV (Fall 2021), Cadillac Lyriq EV (Winter 2022). These are some of the 20+ new North American EV's for Chevy, Buick, Cadillac, GMC to rollout by 2025.

Related videos:
Cruise Origin

Hummer EV

Ultium Gigafactory

Cadillac Lyriq

Bolt EUV
 

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Ultium Lordstown operational in 2022. You had me worried there for a moment.
Many drone flights monitoring the Tesla Gigafactory near Austin. It's giga for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
BrightDrop EV600, EP1
 

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I've been disappointed with the "advancement" of EV technology for a little while now. It doesn't seem there has been a whole lot of progress since I bought my Volt back in 2018. Range has pretty much stagnated and charging times don't appear to have improved much either. It's like we're on the cusp but can't quite get over it.
 

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I've been disappointed with the "advancement" of EV technology for a little while now. It doesn't seem there has been a whole lot of progress since I bought my Volt back in 2018. Range has pretty much stagnated and charging times don't appear to have improved much either. It's like we're on the cusp but can't quite get over it.
A 12 year old EV might release this year
The Aptera

too bad most states tax them excessively
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've been disappointed with the "advancement" of EV technology for a little while now. It doesn't seem there has been a whole lot of progress since I bought my Volt back in 2018. Range has pretty much stagnated and charging times don't appear to have improved much either.
Since I bought my Volt in 2011, range and prices have dropped to the point where a 2020 Bolt has 259 miles of range a 740% increase, but the price is the same as I paid for my 35 mile Volt. My Volt has 240V charging, my Bolt has that but at a higher rate and can do DC fast charging. The Ultium battery represents a very significant advance in battery tech and that will be used first with the Cadillac Lyric. So while it "doesn't seem there has been a whole lot of progress" there has actually been quite a lot with more coming. Kind of the point of this thread.
 

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Since I bought my Volt in 2011, range and prices have dropped to the point where a 2020 Bolt has 259 miles of range a 740% increase, but the price is the same as I paid for my 35 mile Volt. My Volt has 240V charging, my Bolt has that but at a higher rate and can do DC fast charging. The Ultium battery represents a very significant advance in battery tech and that will be used first with the Cadillac Lyric. So while it "doesn't seem there has been a whole lot of progress" there has actually been quite a lot with more coming. Kind of the point of this thread.
What I saw was a gawd awful "car" that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Maybe the Ultium battery will deliver but until it's in a production vehicle my point remains.

Regarding the Bolt wrt the 2011 Volt well, I did say:

"It doesn't seem there has been a whole lot of progress since I bought my Volt back in 2018."

Clearly there have been advances since 2011 but barely anything since 2018 and the rate of charge hasn't improved much either. DC fast charging, at least in the Bolt, has limitations. One cannot get a 0 to 100% at full charge from a DC fast charger out of the Bolt. Not sure what it's like for Teslas.

The point is that, for the past couple of years, EV technology has stagnated. At least what has been released to the public. I would absolutely love to see this change but, at least since I've bought my Volt back in 2018, we haven't even seen steady improvements. The only improvements I've read about have been unlocking already existing capacity. When that changes I'll reevaluate my opinion but until such time my argument stands.
 

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As you state above, GM is making great strides and is pouring tons of money into EV research and to bring new products to market.

I have no doubt that many years ago GM hired someone that was to help them plan future vehicles and they said that EVs wouldn't be a thing until 2030 or some such thing. They quite simply got caught with their proverbial pants down around their ankles.

I want the Lyriq, I for one can't wait for it to be released. I'd bet that the grass roofs and bumpers won't fall off and the panels all will fit right.
 
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what was it, 3 different battery chemistry for gen1
3 different battery chemistry for gen 2
now moving into a different battery going forward, is not really standing still
what does everyone think of new gm logo
171733
 

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I frankly couldn't care less about what the logo looks like. You aren't going to see it on cars, just corporate literature and maybe the odd building in Detroit. LOL

Could have made it a pile of :poop: if they wanted and I'd be okay with it. The new logo is all about trying to get a buzz going about the stock price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
"It doesn't seem there has been a whole lot of progress since I bought my Volt back in 2018."

Clearly there have been advances since 2011 but barely anything since 2018 and the rate of charge hasn't improved much either. DC fast charging, at least in the Bolt, has limitations. One cannot get a 0 to 100% at full charge from a DC fast charger out of the Bolt. Not sure what it's like for Teslas.

The point is that, for the past couple of years, EV technology has stagnated. At least what has been released to the public. I would absolutely love to see this change but, at least since I've bought my Volt back in 2018, we haven't even seen steady improvements. The only improvements I've read about have been unlocking already existing capacity. When that changes I'll reevaluate my opinion but until such time my argument stands.
Barring a dramatic, unexpected breakthrough, what do you expect to happen in two years?

Battery technology has historically advanced at a rate of about 7.5% a year, whether you want to view that as energy capacity or cost reduction. That said, between 2005 and 2018, patenting activity in batteries and other electricity storage technologies grew at an average annual rate of 14% worldwide, four times faster than the average of all technology fields, according to a new joint study published by the European Patent Office (EPO) and the International Energy Agency. Lots of money pouring in will help accelerate improvements that go from lab to scalable production. At this point, improvements are coming from optimizing and playing with the basic ingredients and the production process. Solid state seems to be the next advancement, but these are likely 2 years or more away from mass production and affordability.
 
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Barring a dramatic, unexpected breakthrough, what do you expect to happen in two years?
It would be nice to see steady improvements. However, at least with the Bolt and Volt the extra range additions have come from using more battery to obtain that range.

The second generation Volt has an 18.4kWh battery which is 12% more capacity than the 16.5kWh battery in the first generation Volt. This additional capacity increased the range of the second generation Volt by 12%.

A similar result with the Bolt. The original Bolt has a 60kWh battery which is good for 238 miles. The 2020 Bolt upped the battery to 66kWh for a range of 259 miles. The battery capacity increased by 10% and the range saw a corresponding increase of 10%.

Battery technology has historically advanced at a rate of about 7.5% a year, whether you want to view that as energy capacity or cost reduction. That said, between 2005 and 2018, patenting activity in batteries and other electricity storage technologies grew at an average annual rate of 14% worldwide, four times faster than the average of all technology fields, according to a new joint study published by the European Patent Office (EPO) and the International Energy Agency. Lots of money pouring in will help accelerate improvements that go from lab to scalable production. At this point, improvements are coming from optimizing and playing with the basic ingredients and the production process. Solid state seems to be the next advancement, but these are likely 2 years or more away from mass production and affordability.
Unfortunately this 7.5% / year did not translate into longer ranges for the same sized battery capacity. If so the second generation Volt could have achieved essentially 50 miles on the same capacity battery as the first generation Volt. Charge rate also doesn't appear to have decreased. Charging time appears to be inline with the size of the battery (though I have not tested this, just from what I've read).

I'm taking a dig at any manufacturer or the technology with my comments. Just expressing my disappointment that I haven't seen, at least not out in the real world, steady improvements. I'm not expecting earth shattering developments in battery technology but I haven't seen any steady improvements either, at least not in the limited reading I've done on this subject.
 

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I’m still waiting for GM to release something I want to buy. The ELR was gorgeous but overpriced. So was the CT6 plug-in. The Bolt is just ugly to me. GMs EVs are still getting released at a glacial,pace.

It’s ironic that when I most needed an EV, the volt was the best, most affordable which fit all of my criteria at the time. When they finally get around to making something I would want, I no longer have a commute and really don’t need a long range EV anymore.
 
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It may feel that way, but GM is not treading water. GM is now devoting more R&D to EV development ($27 billion through 2025) than to gas-powered vehicles.
The real question is why is GM spending any R&D money on ICEV at this time.
 

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Don't think ICEV are completely going away for a while but I can tell you as I'm recently retired from there they aren't spending much. They are maintaining current projects and that's about all.
 
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Don't think ICEV are completely going away for a while but I can tell you as I'm recently retired from there they aren't spending much. They are maintaining current projects and that's about all.
I dunno, if someone can improve an ICE engine to get 100 MPG in a car or 50 mpg in a pickup, that could delay the electrification movement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The real question is why is GM spending any R&D money on ICEV at this time.
Because 97% of new car buyers are buying ICE's not EV's? Just a guess.
 

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Because 97% of new car buyers are buying ICE's not EV's? Just a guess.
Do 97% of new car buyers in the US even have a valid EV option? EVs were more than 50% of Norway's new car sales in November. The Porsche Taycan was Porsche's number one seller in the US in 2020. Given the fact that only EVs saw a growth in sales in 2020 I find the response that people don't want EVs to be disinformation from the legacy auto manufacturers, oil companies, and dealerships.
 
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