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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've had a Volt, one of the first Gen 2s, for almost three years. What a great car. When it is running on electricity, I love it. And when on gas, I'm grateful it is so flexible, even if I like being on electricity better.

When it was time for a new car (I have leased the Volt), I wanted more range on electricity. Naturally, I thought Bolt. For me, it would be enough performance and range. I like the Volt styling better, but that wasn't a big problem. What crossed the Bolt off my list were uncomfortable seats when I drove it. They may work for some, but not for me.

The Tesla Model S is too big and expensive, and I didn't want to wait for the Model 3, or so I thought. But I couldn't find what I wanted. 200 mile range on electricity. Hyundai, Jag, VW, Ford, none of them were (or, really, are out yet). Finally I decided to buy the Volt out of the lease and put a grand down on the Tesla Model 3. What tipped me into the Tesla was the TACC (Traffic Aware Cruise Control) and the promise of FSC (Full Self-driving Capability). That's what I want when I'm in traffic on the freeway. Curvy two-lane road? Let me drive!

I was surprised I could get the Model 3 before my Volt lease was up as long as I wasn't going for the base version. I like the idea of OTA (over the air) upgrades (my early Gen 2 Volt went through many firmware flashes, all at the dealer.) All-wheel-drive and 300 mile range means I can take it skiing. I am promised delivery this or next month: I don't have it yet.

I'm fully aware that the Tesla is not likely to have the consistent quality of the Volt in some ways, that it costs a lot, that there are issues with the company, etc. But the combination of high performance, long range, and "car as software platform" seduced me. We'll see, but if it works as well as I hope, I'll be happy. If not, I may have to buy the Volt out of the lease after all. I'm a Voltec fan, but even more, I appreciate innovation.
 

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My brother-in-law got his Model 3 last week and loves it. You won't regret your Model 3 purchase. OTA updates, no ICE maintenance, no Model S fancy door handles that break, and there are a lot of charging stations in California. The only risk is you can't buy/get parts from Tesla, so don't crash it. It's on my short list.
 

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I was really interested in the 3. I still believe it is much too spartan. My neighbor got a "loaded" one and it is so incredibly spartan, and the build quality sucks. Panel gaps, One of the taillights already went out and the DRL on the left side flickers off and on. The windows seal are crap and leak.

I'm really not digging it anymore and it even scares me to consider a S.
 

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I figured I'd wait another year before I looked at one, give them time to get their manufacturing act together, right now you run the risk of getting a Soviet quality car. I also want to see if they stay in business as an independent company, and as of a couple of days ago, if Elon Musk stays out of jail (my guess is that Bernie Madoff is getting a new cellmate). I also want to see what GM and the other established automakers come up with. None of this year's announcements, Jaguar, Audi, Porsche, are remotely good enough, they all have 250 miles of range which makes them expensive Bolts. The Model 3 is on the hairy edge of good enough at 310, plus it has a better charging network. However the one feature that it lacks that I can't live without is Android Auto. There is a Model 3 that parks in a garage that I use and it has a phone mount on it's window, seems insane that a car with a frigging desktop monitor sticking out of it's dash needs to use a window phone mount to get access to Google services.
 

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We are still at a technology level that requires route planning for EV trips outside the operational radius of an EV.
I cancelled my Model 3 for now, because if I'm going to spend twice as much as a Volt in my state, I want a pretty nice car.
How much would a Model 3 be for me? $49,000 + paint + ACC + tax - rebates = $51,363. Our 2017 Volt was just under $28,000 after all taxes, loaded (ACC), and incentives/discounts. It never requires a side trip for charging and can go nearly anywhere there is a road in North America.

So I switched the M3 order for a luxury EV. This will perhaps be the first luxury EV commonly available. Not cheap ($86,895 MSRP loaded), but not as much as a Model S equipped the same, which would be $92,500 MSRP, but lacking such things as HUD, leather AC/heated 18-way seating, dynamic suspension, off-road technology, and much more.

Because you can get a lot of car for $50k today, and I'm just not seeing it in the Model 3. And for $90k, you should get better features than what Tesla's MS offers. Granted, compared to the features of a $90k luxury sedan, the Jaguar FE comes up short in some areas, but it's really not a bad value when compared to ICE medium SUVs with the same features, such as self-steering, ACC, magnetic suspension, and ride height adjustment that will all allow a 20" deep water crossing.
 

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I appreciate innovation, but want it to be reliable. I have mixed feelings about OTA updates. Shipping it and fixing later could end up being part of the culture. Look at the Model 3 brakes. It took Consumer Reports to discover the braking was crappy before Tesla fixed it. On one hand that's great they fixed it, on the other hand why didn't they figure it out BEFORE selling the car?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I rather like the "Premium" interior, though of course it is a matter of taste. It has a bit of Apple aesthetic to it. I wish they offered more choice of colors than black or white. I agree with concerns about build quality, though Tesla appears to quite committed to fixing issues that arise.
 

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I appreciate innovation, but want it to be reliable. I have mixed feelings about OTA updates. Shipping it and fixing later could end up being part of the culture. Look at the Model 3 brakes. It took Consumer Reports to discover the braking was crappy before Tesla fixed it. On one hand that's great they fixed it, on the other hand why didn't they figure it out BEFORE selling the car?
That's one of the reasons that brought an end to much of the British auto manufacturing sector. Ship it out, let the dealers fix it.
 

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I understand your logic completely. My only contention is that I'd rather wait another year or 2 even, so I can get a 300+ mile EV from an established manufacturer. I just don't trust Tesla, and for 50K+, I'm not thrilled with anything about the Model 3.

I fully expect that GM, Volvo, MB, and others will have 300+ mile EVs very soon.
 

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I understand your logic completely. My only contention is that I'd rather wait another year or 2 even, so I can get a 300+ mile EV from an established manufacturer. I just don't trust Tesla, and for 50K+, I'm not thrilled with anything about the Model 3.

I fully expect that GM, Volvo, MB, and others will have 300+ mile EVs very soon.
I sure hope you are correct about that. If so, I believe the real transition to EV will have begun in earnest. Let the games begin!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have mixed feelings about OTA updates. Shipping it and fixing later could end up being part of the culture.
This is a good point. I work in IT, and everything is moving in the direction of "agile" development and "SDx" (software defined whatever.) I suspect cars are going to follow the same path. SDA (Software-Defined Automobiles) ... you heard it here first!

It is important to tease apart software quality and means of delivery. Certainly they are related, mainly because if you know you can update easily, you may set different release standards. But if IT is an example, both quality and features will improve. I think Tesla is leading the SDA charge ...
 

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This is a good point. I work in IT, and everything is moving in the direction of "agile" development and "SDx" (software defined whatever.) I suspect cars are going to follow the same path. SDA (Software-Defined Automobiles) ... you heard it here first!

It is important to tease apart software quality and means of delivery. Certainly they are related, mainly because if you know you can update easily, you may set different release standards. But if IT is an example, both quality and features will improve. I think Tesla is leading the SDA charge ...
One screw up with OTA delivery may put the kibosh on that concept for some time.
 

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So far, after not quite three weeks with my Model 3, I'm pretty happy with it. Perhaps the most egregious issue I, well, actually the detail shop I use, noticed is a few places where the paint was not polished out quite right. Looked 'smudgey' when you look at it just wrong in the sun. Most people would never have noticed it. The Tesla Service Center did a high speed polish to take care of the issue. And the detail place will take care of the residue from the high speed polish next week when they do their 'new car paint correction' and Opticoat it. I should note that when my Volt was new, he had to do quite a bit of paint correction on it as well.

Not sure what Android Auto offers that is not already there in the TM3. Google maps and navigation with traffic displays are always on the screen. Bluetooth connection to your smart phone. And streaming audio is also built in. Not good if you are trying to build up your waze points though.

Tesla has been doing over the air updates and monitoring of their cars since early Roadster days. They seem to have the process down fairly well by now. And it's not just bug fixes. They add new features as well. A couple recent examples: They implemented a teen mode to restrict speed/acceleration in response to a fatal crash a couple of months ago where two teens were killed due to excessive speed. They also recently implemented a cabin overheat feature which can optionally keep the cabin cool when the car is parked in the sun. All cars get these features, regardless of when they were sold.
 

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... But the combination of high performance, long range, and "car as software platform" seduced me. We'll see, but if it works as well as I hope, I'll be happy. If not, I may have to buy the Volt out of the lease after all. I'm a Voltec fan, but even more, I appreciate innovation.
I would love to know a bit about the software architectures in Tesla, the Bolt and the Volt. OAT updates aren't something you want to screw up and it certainly helps if the platform being updated is built with OAT in mind. It seem like Tesla took this approach from the get go. The Bolt has only gotten OTA for the infotainment in the last few months and still lacks it for battery/drive train. I'm thinking GM may have gotten caught with their pant down by not going with an software framework built to support OTA updates. Or it could be the framework just isn't mature enough that they have confidence in it.
 

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I would love to know a bit about the software architectures in Tesla, the Bolt and the Volt. OAT updates aren't something you want to screw up and it certainly helps if the platform being updated is built with OAT in mind. It seem like Tesla took this approach from the get go. The Bolt has only gotten OTA for the infotainment in the last few months and still lacks it for battery/drive train. I'm thinking GM may have gotten caught with their pant down by not going with an software framework built to support OTA updates. Or it could be the framework just isn't mature enough that they have confidence in it.
Or it could be the Chevy feels that after any SW update it's prudent to do a test drive to make sure this particular car (with whatever might be a little unique about it) doesn't kill the driver when it exits the dealer. Even running a diagnostic check on the car after the download sounds prudent. Every environment is different. As soon as software goes live, it's always prudent to run another bank of tests in that production environment.
 

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So far, after not quite three weeks with my Model 3, I'm pretty happy with it. Perhaps the most egregious issue I, well, actually the detail shop I use, noticed is a few places where the paint was not polished out quite right. Looked 'smudgey' when you look at it just wrong in the sun. Most people would never have noticed it. The Tesla Service Center did a high speed polish to take care of the issue. And the detail place will take care of the residue from the high speed polish next week when they do their 'new car paint correction' and Opticoat it. I should note that when my Volt was new, he had to do quite a bit of paint correction on it as well.

Not sure what Android Auto offers that is not already there in the TM3. Google maps and navigation with traffic displays are always on the screen. Bluetooth connection to your smart phone. And streaming audio is also built in. Not good if you are trying to build up your waze points though.

Tesla has been doing over the air updates and monitoring of their cars since early Roadster days. They seem to have the process down fairly well by now. And it's not just bug fixes. They add new features as well. A couple recent examples: They implemented a teen mode to restrict speed/acceleration in response to a fatal crash a couple of months ago where two teens were killed due to excessive speed. They also recently implemented a cabin overheat feature which can optionally keep the cabin cool when the car is parked in the sun. All cars get these features, regardless of when they were sold.
Glad to here they have Google Maps, do they have a way to connect your Google Account so that you can get your calendar and contact list?
 

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The Tesla Model S is too big and expensive, and I didn't want to wait for the Model 3, or so I thought. But I couldn't find what I wanted. 200 mile range on electricity. Hyundai, Jag, VW, Ford, none of them were (or, really, are out yet). Finally I decided to buy the Volt out of the lease and put a grand down on the Tesla Model 3. What tipped me into the Tesla was the TACC (Traffic Aware Cruise Control) and the promise of FSC (Full Self-driving Capability). That's what I want when I'm in traffic on the freeway. Curvy two-lane road? Let me drive!

I was surprised I could get the Model 3 before my Volt lease was up as long as I wasn't going for the base version. I like the idea of OTA (over the air) upgrades (my early Gen 2 Volt went through many firmware flashes, all at the dealer.) All-wheel-drive and 300 mile range means I can take it skiing. I am promised delivery this or next month: I don't have it yet.

I'm fully aware that the Tesla is not likely to have the consistent quality of the Volt in some ways, that it costs a lot, that there are issues with the company, etc. But the combination of high performance, long range, and "car as software platform" seduced me. We'll see, but if it works as well as I hope, I'll be happy. If not, I may have to buy the Volt out of the lease after all. I'm a Voltec fan, but even more, I appreciate innovation.
Congratulations. I predict you will love it.
Having lived with ours for 3 months, I can only say that its a great car.
Fun to drive yourself on twisty roads and autopilot is superb in traffic.
(I am commuting daily from Santa Barbara to LA for five weeks, 4 left, and the autopilot makes it a relaxing drive. Much better than just the adaptive cruise on our 17 Volt.)
I love the empty dash. And one result of the dash being free of stuff and so low is that the model 3 has minimal reflections in the windshield under almost any lighting.
The seats are very comfortable and very widely adjustable. Even friends that are extremely picky about car seats think they are very comfortable.
Have fun with it.
 
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