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Seems to me a larger, heavier vehicle gets more value out of the Voltec drivetrain than a compact car. Voltec can recover kinetic energy from starting/stopping (which increases dramatically with heavier vehicles) -- obviously, traditional powertrains can't. Also a larger, more expensive vehicle could mask the cost of the Voltec components better than a compact car like the Volt.

Because of the way GM designed Voltec and packaged it all into a transaxle case, it seems like it would almost be a drop-in replacement for any of their FWD drivetrains. Imagine a Equinox with the same drivetrain as the Volt, or a Traverse with a bigger motor, larger gas engine, and/or a rear motor. Even a modest increase in battery capacity could give a large crossover 40 miles EV range which could mean almost 3 gallons of gas saved with each charge - much bigger savings than a small car.

Also I find it annoying that GM hasn't expanded their lineup since IN MY OPINION the Voltec powertrain is by far the best electric vehicle architecture available. My family needs a SUV, I want a plug-in, and there's nothing available. GM has had this technology for almost 10 years now and hasn't expanded it at all!

What am I missing? Surely there's sound business decision making going on here that I am missing.
 
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Chrysler has the van (too big for me). Mitsubishi has the 4WD SUV with interesting two electric motor/gas assist extender. Honda has a larger car (similar to Volt but without the same drive modes). GM's down the road SUV/CUV will likely be EV. EV's are still in 1% range in N/A so people are slow to pick up on them. Too new a technology that people where afraid to stick their neck out for. Partly manufacturers fault for not advertising them. Chicken and egg. No money in advertising budget because of small numbers sold, small numbers sold because of no advertising budget.
 

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Wait and see. GM has promised 20 EVs in the next few years, until they announce them we have no knowing what the mix of Voltec and Boltec drivetrain cars will be. The Volt and Bolt are clearly just research vehicles for GM, they haven't tried to sell either of them in volume, az far as I know they've never released an ad for either one of them (I see Honda Clarity ads everyday, I've never seen a Volt or Bolt ad). The optimistic view is that GM is waiting for one more iteration of battery tech which they expect in 2020 or 2021, then they will start mainstreaming EVs, at that point I'd expect to see Voltec in the big monster trucks and SUVs.
 

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I'm all in on either a Voltec or Boltec Equinox or Subyukonade. And please give me the deep purple color option available on recent Chevy Sparks.
 

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Wait and see. GM has promised 20 EVs in the next few years, until they announce them we have no knowing what the mix of Voltec and Boltec drivetrain cars will be. The Volt and Bolt are clearly just research vehicles for GM, they haven't tried to sell either of them in volume, az far as I know they've never released an ad for either one of them (I see Honda Clarity ads everyday, I've never seen a Volt or Bolt ad). The optimistic view is that GM is waiting for one more iteration of battery tech which they expect in 2020 or 2021, then they will start mainstreaming EVs, at that point I'd expect to see Voltec in the big monster trucks and SUVs.
Nothing wrong with the Voltec.....but I really hope when they are ready and committed they go all the way with pure EV's with the power, range and options we are all hoping for. I know they can do it whenever they want. I still think they are just waiting to see if Tesla really comes through with their "mass market" plans and starts hitting their numbers. Then it is GAME ON.
 

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I would like to think an extended range SUV with AWD is coming. It’s gotta have an ICE for my Florida trips. I’m not willing to sit somewhere killing time charging up 200 miles in a half hour. I can pump 200 miles of gasoline in 2 minutes. The Voltec system is phenomenal. Anyway my 2011 Volt with 118,500 miles is barely broke in. I’m expecting to get another 6-8 years out of it.
 

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Nothing wrong with the Voltec.....but I really hope when they are ready and committed they go all the way with pure EV's with the power, range and options we are all hoping for. I know they can do it whenever they want. I still think they are just waiting to see if Tesla really comes through with their "mass market" plans and starts hitting their numbers. Then it is GAME ON.
I think there is room for one more generation of Voltecs. BEVs need 450 miles of range before they are a complete replacement for ICE cars, I don't think that will happen before 2025. My guess is that the 2020 class of BEVs will be in the low 300s for a sedan sized car, less for something big, the Jaguar I-Pace has only 250 miles of range, no better than a Bolt, so I wouldn't expect a BEV truck or SUV to be any better. EREVs like the Volt can go anywhere and still run on electric much of the time, if they offer a 100 mile range EREV then it would be electric 90-95% of the time and still have no range limitations.
 

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Frankly, the most convenient electric vehicle for very long distance driving is a PHEV, not a BEV. BEV's require more stops, more "refueling" time. Arguments are made that you should stop every 1-2 hours and wait 30-60 minutes to recharge anyway, so a BEV is fine. But few want to add that amount of stops and waits to a long trip.
 

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Seems to me a larger, heavier vehicle gets more value out of the Voltec drivetrain than a compact car. Voltec can recover kinetic energy from starting/stopping (which increases dramatically with heavier vehicles) -- obviously, traditional powertrains can't. Also a larger, more expensive vehicle could mask the cost of the Voltec components better than a compact car like the Volt.

Because of the way GM designed Voltec and packaged it all into a transaxle case, it seems like it would almost be a drop-in replacement for any of their FWD drivetrains. Imagine a Equinox with the same drivetrain as the Volt, or a Traverse with a bigger motor, larger gas engine, and/or a rear motor. Even a modest increase in battery capacity could give a large crossover 40 miles EV range which could mean almost 3 gallons of gas saved with each charge - much bigger savings than a small car.

Also I find it annoying that GM hasn't expanded their lineup since IN MY OPINION the Voltec powertrain is by far the best electric vehicle architecture available. My family needs a SUV, I want a plug-in, and there's nothing available. GM has had this technology for almost 10 years now and hasn't expanded it at all!

What am I missing? Surely there's sound business decision making going on here that I am missing.
The problem is they are having record sales on their SUV/CUVs of the Chevy Equinox and Traverse and Buick Enclave. See comments from Chief Executive Officer Mary Barra below. Will they want to eat into those sales. Maybe in lower numbers for the EV credits but I doubt real commitment for bigger numbers

Equinox sales as 75K+ (divide by 3 =
25000/month!)
Traverse sales ... 10000/month
Enclave sales ...
4000/month

February 5, 2018, 2:58 PM CST
>>>>> quote begin >>>>>>
Chief Executive Officer Mary Barra said last month that adjusted profit rose to as much as $6.50 a share last year and will be steady in 2018. New SUVs like the Chevrolet Equinox and Traverse are contributing to record earnings that the company expects to roughly sustain this year. Ford, meanwhile, has forecast profit will drop from disappointing 2017 results.



One big reason Barra has pulled away is GM’s revamped lineup of sport utility vehicles. The Equinox surpassed Ford’s Escape in fourth-quarter U.S. sales, according to Autodata Corp. The automaker also boosted deliveries of the redesigned Chevy Traverse and Buick Enclave models late last year.
<<<<<<< quote end <<<<<<<<
via: GM Breaks Away From Ford Thanks to New SUVs

Equinox

Traverse
Last edited by scottf200; 03-04-2018 at 01:45 PM.​
 

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Frankly, the most convenient electric vehicle for very long distance driving is a PHEV, not a BEV. BEV's require more stops, more "refueling" time. Arguments are made that you should stop every 1-2 hours and wait 30-60 minutes to recharge anyway, so a BEV is fine. But few want to add that amount of stops and waits to a long trip.
The solution to the bev refueling problem is to just install a Mr Fusion where you won’t need much of a battery at all. Just enough to give a little buffer for driving speed/condition changes and spinning the fusion generator up and down.
 

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The problem is they are having record sales on their SUV/CUVs of the Chevy Equinox and Traverse and Buick Enclave. See comments from Chief Executive Officer Mary Barra below. Will they want to eat into those sales. Maybe in lower numbers for the EV credits but I doubt real commitment for bigger numbers

Equinox sales as 75K+ (divide by 3 =
25000/month!)
Traverse sales ... 10000/month
Enclave sales ...
4000/month

February 5, 2018, 2:58 PM CST
>>>>> quote begin >>>>>>
Chief Executive Officer Mary Barra said last month that adjusted profit rose to as much as $6.50 a share last year and will be steady in 2018. New SUVs like the Chevrolet Equinox and Traverse are contributing to record earnings that the company expects to roughly sustain this year. Ford, meanwhile, has forecast profit will drop from disappointing 2017 results.



One big reason Barra has pulled away is GM’s revamped lineup of sport utility vehicles. The Equinox surpassed Ford’s Escape in fourth-quarter U.S. sales, according to Autodata Corp. The automaker also boosted deliveries of the redesigned Chevy Traverse and Buick Enclave models late last year.
<<<<<<< quote end <<<<<<<<
via: GM Breaks Away From Ford Thanks to New SUVs

Equinox

Traverse
Last edited by scottf200; 03-04-2018 at 01:45 PM.​
If they offered the equinox with ICE, Voltec, and Boltec options that won’t eat into Equinox sales at all. Giving people the choice of a drivetrain might even increase their sales with defectors from competitors. Subaru owners might switch in droves for a super eco-friendly replacement.
 

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I think there is room for one more generation of Voltecs. BEVs need 450 miles of range before they are a complete replacement for ICE cars, I don't think that will happen before 2025. My guess is that the 2020 class of BEVs will be in the low 300s for a sedan sized car, less for something big, the Jaguar I-Pace has only 250 miles of range, no better than a Bolt, so I wouldn't expect a BEV truck or SUV to be any better. EREVs like the Volt can go anywhere and still run on electric much of the time, if they offer a 100 mile range EREV then it would be electric 90-95% of the time and still have no range limitations.
Here is a trip I took recently where I just had *1* stop and it was for lunch.
We charged during lunch so there was virtually zero time difference between driving a full gas car (or Volt running mostly gas) and our BEV (115-ish max kW charging).


(Red are current Tesla Superchargers)
 

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If they offered the equinox with ICE, Voltec, and Boltec options that won’t eat into Equinox sales at all. Giving people the choice of a drivetrain might even increase their sales with defectors from competitors. Subaru owners might switch in droves for a super eco-friendly replacement.
What is their motivation to reduce their profit in these extra design *and* production costs?

They sold almost 32,000 in the *single* month of March '17 (and Dec '18).

 

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My guess is batteries are still too expensive. To get 75-100 mile range you need a battery from a Bolt and the ice drivetrain. I agree that would be the perfect vehicle. Awd, more ground clearance, 100 mile daily range and ice for the long trips. Yes it would cost more to drive than my Bolt, but I only pay $.02 per mile right now. I would easily pay $.04 or $.06 per mile to have a smallish SUV with awd.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
My guess is batteries are still too expensive. To get 75-100 mile range you need a battery from a Bolt and the ice drivetrain. I agree that would be the perfect vehicle. Awd, more ground clearance, 100 mile daily range and ice for the long trips. Yes it would cost more to drive than my Bolt, but I only pay $.02 per mile right now. I would easily pay $.04 or $.06 per mile to have a smallish SUV with awd.
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.
 

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If they offered the equinox with ICE, Voltec, and Boltec options that won’t eat into Equinox sales at all. Giving people the choice of a drivetrain might even increase their sales......
To say that a PHEV CUV/SUV would cut into current CUV/SUV sales of a similar size is to say that the Volt cut into Cruze sales.

Did anyone here who bought a Volt consider a Cruze instead? I didn't and I don't recall reading about anyone else who did here. Maybe someone will pipe up now that I asked.

+1 on increasing sales. GM might be surprised at how much better it sells than a compact sedan - or not. Maybe they know very well by now. But it has to be longer and a little wider than a Bolt next time. Bolt is okay, but the hatch area sucks rocks with the rear seats up.
 

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Bolt is okay, but the hatch area sucks rocks with the rear seats up.
Flipping up the false cargo floor adds about 7 or so inches of depth for suitcases. But not as much trunk floor space as the Cadillac XTS we recently rented on a trip. However, I was disappointed in the Cadillac. It was no quieter than my Bolt and the TPMS display is very well buried. Apparently tire psi is not something Cadillac owners care about. Why did I want the display? The car lost 10 psi in 4 hours, enough to trigger the low pressure light. Put air in, no change. The tires had been rotated and not relearned!! Ended up at a Discount Tire. So those who like to blame the LRR tires on the Volt and Bolt for picking up nails? It's not unique to LRR, lol. My wife felt it was a chore to maneuver and park. Not used to a land yacht any more.
 

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Flipping up the false cargo floor adds about 7 or so inches of depth for suitcases.
I didn't realize...... but it's still a bit short front to back. For us we could manage since it's just the two of us by putting the seats down. I think my Volt has me spoiled though, and it's a compact car. ;)

I'm still trying to imagine what an Encore (or bigger) sized vehicle would be like. I'm getting tired of waiting on news. It's already been teased to a very few, so we know it exists. :mad:
 

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Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

Not even close to enough battery. The volt won't even make my daily commute except on calm warm days. In the winter it only gets half way, some days less than 30 miles electric and it's all down hill going to work.

Needs 100 mile range in summer to be a contender.
 
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