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Because it has a diesel engine. Our diesel emissions regulation laws are insane and not realistic. Recently, new diesel engines are able to meet our emissions standards so we should start to see more diesels on the roads.


If biodiesel is used the emissions go down significantly. Why are we not working hard to get more diesel cars on our roads? Maybe for the same reason we now have a two year solar moratorium. We are either stupid or there’s an organized effort to delay things. Take your pick and come up with your own conspiracy theory. All I know is that many of our energy policies don't make technological sense. There is much more to it. Only pain can change things. Pain causes people to speak up and demand change. The technology is ready... Are we?
 

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European diesel options are great vehicles and I wish we had as many choices in powertrains as they do. There are a couple of cars that I am interested in purchasing if and when they make it over.

I'd very much like to see a VW Jetta wagon or Passat wagon with the new Euro 4 cylinder diesel which makes 140 hp and 235 pounds feet of tourque and gets about 46 mpg.

The other vehicle I'm really interested in is the Subaru Legacy with it's 2.0L diesel boxer engine. That engine makes 150 hp and 260 pounds feet of torque. I think this engine is supposed to get around 40 mpg.

These fuel numbers might not seem that great but these engines are in pretty large vehicles and offer far better mileage than the current gas engines which power these vehicles now.
 

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The diesel market is more constrained than the gas market. I am not a refinery expert, but as I understand it, we couldnt all just switch to diesel. It is a by product of gas production. That means that only so much diesel can be reclaimed through the production process of gas.
 

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Don't forget too that the quote of 80mpg in the article is going to be based on Imperial gallons. So your US consumption is probably going to be in the mid-60mpg range.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the replies/info. It does seem like Europe has better options when it comes to cars with better fuel mileage. It just seems to be a shame when we go crazy for hybrid cars that are getting 35mpg when Europe has regular small cars getting close to 80mpg (or even 60mpg given the measurement differences).
 

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Perhaps there is a petro-chemical process to convert gas into diesel? I don't see why this can't be economically done. There is a process of turning either LNG or methane into various fuel, and a lot cleaner fuel too!
 

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It's starting to look more likely that we'll be getting to see more European style A and B class cars on US roads. Look at the announcement of the Chevy Beat possibility this morning. Awesome news!

As for Ford, originally we weren't going to see the Fiesta at all. Then they mentioned bringing the sedan but not the hatchback for the '10 model year (which is pretty much where we're at right now). Also awesome news (though I prefer the hatch myself).

These are definitely steps in the right direction, assuming fickle American tastes will run to actually buying them.
 

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conversions

Don't forget too that the quote of 80mpg in the article is going to be based on Imperial gallons. So your US consumption is probably going to be in the mid-60mpg range.
well, it's jan 2012! just want to say the imperial gal is smaller than the US gal. 1 UK gal = 1.2 US gal.
Europe uses kilometers per gal. 1 K = 0.6 miles. So, 80 probably refers to 80 kilometers, which would be about 49.7 US miles.

49 mpg (UK mpg) = 59.68 (US mpg)

So, your figure matches pretty much what I come up with, too. Cheers.

Narwhal
 

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well, it's jan 2012! just want to say the imperial gal is smaller than the US gal. 1 UK gal = 1.2 US gal.
Europe uses kilometers per gal. 1 K = 0.6 miles. So, 80 probably refers to 80 kilometers, which would be about 49.7 US miles.

49 mpg (UK mpg) = 59.68 (US mpg)

So, your figure matches pretty much what I come up with, too. Cheers.

Narwhal
That's backwards. While in your equation the UK number is smaller, that's because it's a bigger bucket. Just like one US gallon = 4 US quarts, and a quart is definitely a smaller volume than a gallon.

And, since the UK gallon is by volume more than the US gallon, you should expect to get more miles per UK gallon.
 

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Fishhawk is correct. I'm not the best at math myself sometimes (especially after a 16 hour shift) so when it comes to converting mileage figures I've always used the conversion page over on Fred's TDI page.

http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html

These guys have been talking mileage for years now. Just enter the number hit convert and there it is! 80mpg Imperial is 66mpg US or 3.51L/100km.

Interestingly, at least to me, I was getting 4.75 L/100km in my smart CDI. That's 49.5mpgUS or 59.5mpgIMP. Now in the Volt my lifetime average is between my two batteries is 1.9L/100km, 123.8mpgUS or 148.7mpgIMP !

P.S. Someone keeps saying American's won't buy diesels because all they remember is the diesels of the 70's. I think that is Baloney. If they actually tried to sell diesel cars in the US, people would see how good they are now and would want to buy one. I think it is time that marketers stopped relying on polling data to make decisions and get back to marketing good products instead of perceived good products. It seems unless it is a sure thing no one want's to stick their neck out...
 

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Ford selling this car in Europe that gets 80mpg!!!!

Why can't we get these cars here in the US?

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/224313/brit_show_debut_for_green_fiesta.html
It wouldn't do that driven here. The quote is estimated "nearly 80 mpg" in one place and "75 mpg" in another. It hasn't even been tested yet! If you assume the more optimistic number, and then factor in the larger imperial gallons that they will be using, that gets you down to 66.7 MPG (1.2 us gallons to an imperial gallon.)

The thing is, that's an estimated number on the European combined cycle test, which gives higher results than the US combined test. I haven't found a comprehensive comparison; the example in Wikipedia suggests it's a little over 10% more optimistic (halfway down, under "different measuring regimes):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_automobiles

That would bring the expected US number (still using their untested most optimistic quote) down to just under 60 mpg. But it gets worse...

As a diesel, efficiency would suffer on the lower cetane (pretty much octane in reverse, used to define performance of diesel fuel) fuel we have in the US. Modern european diesels are designed around 50 cetane european fuel; most US fuel is 42 cetane (detonation is impossible in a diesel - the result of this slower burning fuel is more energy lost out the exhaust pipe, not anything catastrophic.)

I don't have a way to quantify this effect; the closest I got in some quick web searching is that a 2008 VW Golf TDI in europe has a combined cycle rating of 58 mpg. The same engine in a Jetta in 2009 here is rated 34 mpg combined cycle by the EPA (though many believe this rating conservative.) (58/1.2=48 US mpg on Euro cycle. 48*.91 = 43.6 MG US cycle - implies 22% loss due to poor fuel.) That includes all three factors we're talking about, so 80 mpg * (34/58) = 46.9 mpg best guess.

And you have to find customers in the US who will buy less than 90 horsepower (though the 2600 pounds curb weight will help.)
 

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Another thing to consider is all diesel fuel must now be ultra low sulfur which drove up the price, I pay about 30 cents more per gallon on diesel than 93 octane gas.

Also a lot of trucks are required to have "PEE" tanks to meet emissions requirements (my Dodge truck does not have one). A pee tank requires you to keep a separate tank filled up with urea so it can inject the urea to help clean emissions.

And no YOU can't provide your own home brewed urea by peeing into the tank
 

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The car would probably be considerably heavier if they did sell it here also; US safety regulations are different than they are in Europe. Then you have a problem of needing more power to get the car going, so maybe that engine doesn't suffice and it's back to the drawing board. We'll probably never see that car here.
 

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I have read estimates that you have to add about $80 to $100 worth of urea every 8,000 to 10,000 miles, so if you add the higher cost of diesel and the cost of urea plus the diesel isn't as responsive and some people just don't like them but they don't know why they don't like them, the wisdom of using a diesel does not add up.
 

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After almost a full year of reading you guys, I've decided it's about time to register and enter the conversation :)

There are indeed significant differences in US and EU market , so that not only the mpg figures matter.

1. In most EU countries the diesel is a little bit cheaper than the petrol. It should be - actually the diesel comes before petrol in the production process - petrol is more higly refined. Combine that with the lower consumption and the long-term use of a diesel car turns out much much cheaper.
In the EU the typical engines bought range from 1.3 up to 2.4 l. max - regardless petrol or diesel. Commonly bigger than 2.5 englines are considered pure waste of fuel and money and are reserved for the rich people.

I'll give you an example:
Currently I own a Mitsubishi Outlander with 2.4, 170 bhp petrol engine, which gives combined 23.5 mpg
The same vehicle is sold with 2.0 diesel, which completely equals mine in terms of acceleration and even has more torgue, but gives combined 33.6 mpg. You can do the math easily. The only reason I've bought it was the lack of automatic with the diesel at the time I bought it... However now I've converted it to LPG operation and the 50% cheaper LPG makes it spend as much as 36 mpg petrol car.

2. There is the point of the difference in the diesel fuel as saghost pointed out. The modern diesel engines are very very sensetive for the qiality of the fuel. Even here lots of new diesel cars are suffering from "not-that-good" diesel and this results in expensive fuel-injectors changes. I imagne this problem might be worse if EU diesel car is imported directly in US.

I alsow have a WV Passat with 1.9 TDI engine, which gives combined 47 mpg, with no compromises of acceleration or anyth else, but if the price difference between petrol and diesel is so great in the US, thean there is really no point as diesels are usually more capricious and noisy.


If you also consider the twice more expensive fuel here, and much cheaper electricity rates.. that makes me want the Volt even more :)

95 octane fuel here if about 6.6 USD/gal. and in western EU up to 7.5 USD/gal.
electricity (night rate) is 0.06/kW.

So in a Volt/Ampera I would average 1.5 cent / mile opposite to 27.5 c/mile now driving 24 mpg petrol or 0.2 c/mile using LPG... that's 20 times difference :)

...hope I didn't mess up with the measurements coversion somewhere :)

Brgds
 

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...hope I didn't mess up with the measurements conversion somewhere :)
The numbers look reasonable to me! But if you want to make sure, you can post duel figures (mpg and l/100km et al) and if somebody wants to double check you they can (and it'll make our Canadian friends happy :- ).

Hopefully the Voltec design can be mated to a clean diesel in the future, so that it makes it an even better fit for the EU market. While gas and diesel are less expensive here, I'd sure love to be paying that $.06/kw there then the ridiculous rates we pay here in So. Ca...

And welcome to the forum!
 

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The problem is the ridiculous California idle emission rules for particulates. And you guys keep blaming us conservatives for all the problems. Those Pelosi liberals are killing us with regulations.
 

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The problem is the ridiculous California idle emission rules for particulates. And you guys keep blaming us conservatives for all the problems. Those Pelosi liberals are killing us with regulations.
I have been in business for nearly 40 years. I remember when I drove the 18 wheelers way back when. The truck stops had a blue fog over them at night. Now they are clean except for the urine smell in the parking lot.
 
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