[bro1999]

While Tesla battles production hell, the Bolt powers on

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brooke...-time-to-rethink-the-chevy-bolt/#63731d42512b

Tesla's loss is GM's gain. I think the Bolt really forced Elon's hand with the 3 and "delivering" it in July faster than he originally planned....and now Elon's finding production hell is much more hellish than he could have imagined.
The Model 3 reservation holders "Bolting" is probably increasing by the day.

 

[Loboc]

I wouldn't use the term 'chugs' to describe an EV.

 

[PrivatePilot]

I saw a great analogy for the Tesla/GM rivalry a few days ago:

"Tesla paved the road, but GM is driving on it".

If GM could just get Bolts to the high demand marketplaces now, that'd be great. As I've mentioned in a few other threads, Bolts seem virtually unobtainable by dealerships in Canada where (ironically) the demand is very high.

 

[Qinsp]

Elon's "Assume the worst" comment didn't exactly blow wind up my skirt.
I'm 'supposed' to see mine by the end of March. April 1 is my deadline.

However, depending on what the 2018 Bolt offers as optional equipment, I might just buy a 2018 Bolt then wait on a Model 3. A Bolt with ACC or a sport package might have me wait until 2019+ for a Model 3.

 

[bro1999]

I wouldn't use the term 'chugs' to describe an EV.

Hmm....maybe "glides"? Rolls? Ascends into heaven? Maybe that last one is too much. Lol

edit: I got it! "While Tesla battles production hell, the Bolt powers on"

Mods, title edit request please.

 

[sosmerc]

"Tesla paved the road, but GM is driving on it".

If the Bolt could use the Tesla Supercharging Network then I would almost agree. That would really move the EV world forward, which is Tesla's primary goal.

 

[DonC]

We'll see how this is working (or not) by next summer. GM can build Bolts but it has more experience, a better supply chain, and takes less risks on the design front. The two big questions are: One, how many people will shell out $1000/month for a small sedan with a decidedly less than luxury interior? Two, can Tesla make any money selling the Model 3? A six month delay is not that important.

If the Bolt could use the Tesla Supercharging Network then I would almost agree. That would really move the EV world forward, which is Tesla's primary goal.

Realistically it likely doesn't matter. In the short term, by the time the Model 3 shows up in numbers the CCS network will be about as good. Note that I'm talking about the actual supercharger network, the one where there are lines and the charging rate is often nowhere near the nominal rating, not the mythical super charger network many people refer to. In the long run, since a Tesla can use the CCS network with an adapter, I suspect the CCS network will be greatly more expansive. It's inevitable given that CCS will support all BEVs and the supercharger network will support only a subset.

 

[Loboc]

It's inevitable given that CCS will support all BEVs and the supercharger network will support only a subset.

Here is where the government needs to step in (or needed to in the past) to force standardization. At least for the US. Gas pumps are standard. Electricity pumps should be standard as well.

 

[volt11]

With GM's recent announcement that they'll have 2 new EV's on the road within the next 18 months, there could be more for Tesla to worry about than the let's-face-it-still-a-little-bit-dowdy Bolt. My hope is that one will be essentially a Buick version of the Bolt with (hopefully) better styling, proportions, and feature set, and the other will be some kind of Cadillac 4-door that kind of straddles the realm (in price/size/configuration) between the Model 3 and Model S. That would be a winning strategy at least, especially if the Cadillac version I'm imagining has SuperCruise available.

 

[Tomt]

I highly doubt that I would ever buy a Cadillac anything!

That would be a winning strategy at least, especially if the Cadillac version I'm imagining has SuperCruise available.

 

[Norton]

"Tesla paved the road, but GM is driving on it".

If the Bolt could use the Tesla Supercharging Network then I would almost agree. That would really move the EV world forward, which is Tesla's primary goal.

Right!!
And Ol' EM went on and on about sharing T's patents and stuff.
And wasn't there mention of sharing the SC network someday?
It would be actual MONEY COMING IN for a change.

That talk wasn't just PR, was it?
It would help EV drivers, here and now.

 

[Upper5Percent]

I saw a great analogy for the Tesla/GM rivalry a few days ago:

"Tesla paved the road, but GM is driving on it".

If GM could just get Bolts to the high demand marketplaces now, that'd be great. As I've mentioned in a few other threads, Bolts seem virtually unobtainable by dealerships in Canada where (ironically) the demand is very high.

If Tesla paved the road...then GM better be making 4x4s...

 

[saghost]

Right!!
And Ol' EM went on and on about sharing T's patents and stuff.
And wasn't there mention of sharing the SC network someday?
It would be actual MONEY COMING IN for a change.

That talk wasn't just PR, was it?
It would help EV drivers, here and now.

Tesla has repeatedly said they are open to sharing the network with anyone who's willing to join it and pay their share of the costs based on usage. GM's position has been that they aren't in the business of running gas stations or charging networks.

 

[saghost]

Realistically it likely doesn't matter. In the short term, by the time the Model 3 shows up in numbers the CCS network will be about as good. Note that I'm talking about the actual supercharger network, the one where there are lines and the charging rate is often nowhere near the nominal rating, not the mythical super charger network many people refer to. In the long run, since a Tesla can use the CCS network with an adapter, I suspect the CCS network will be greatly more expansive. It's inevitable given that CCS will support all BEVs and the supercharger network will support only a subset.

Even when my Tesla is charging annoyingly slow it's faster than CHAdeMO or CCS charging right now. Both networks have promised future high power, and it'll be interesting to see how many of those stations get installed.

I can't speak to lines - those seem to be a California thing that Tesla hasn't beat yet, despite all the locations they keep opening there. I only waited for a charge once in all the trips I've done - locals were clogging the Chicago location which was only four stalls and the only one in the metro area (they've since opened a couple more locations up there.)

You've also got a false assumption in your logic, unless things change. The official position of the folks that run CCS currently is that adapters of any kind are not allowed - and perhaps as a result, right now no adapters exist for CHAdeMO or Tesla cars to charge off of CCS. Instead of supporting all EVs, as it stands now CCS will be supporting the smallest third of EVs (though the VW "CCS" installations, at least for the first third, are apparently going to be CCS+CHAdeMO instead, which any EV can charge at since Tesla does sell a CHAdeMO adapter.)

It'll be interesting to see how things develop in Europe - a recent EU ruling appears to require Tesla to offer CCS charging at their Supercharger locations there.

 

[DonC]

Even when my Tesla is charging annoyingly slow it's faster than CHAdeMO or CCS charging right now. Both networks have promised future high power, and it'll be interesting to see how many of those stations get installed.
...
You've also got a false assumption in your logic, unless things change. The official position of the folks that run CCS currently is that adapters of any kind are not allowed - and perhaps as a result, right now no adapters exist for CHAdeMO or Tesla cars to charge off of CCS. Instead of supporting all EVs, as it stands now CCS will be supporting the smallest third of EVs (though the VW "CCS" installations, at least for the first third, are apparently going to be CCS+CHAdeMO instead, which any EV can charge at since Tesla does sell a CHAdeMO adapter.)

Well the 320 kW CCS chargers are scheduled to be operational in a few months. We'll have to see. Or not since I'm not sure any vehicle can take advantage of that.

AFAIK all the CCS chargers going in, Electrify America or otherwise, are all using the combo CCS/CHAdeMO. There are some original CHAdeMO charge stations that are not CCS compliant. And of course GM or BMW dealers won't be likely to support the dual standard. But public chargers should be dual standard. It's simple and easy and costs very little compared to the other costs.

 

[saghost]

AFAIK all the CCS chargers going in, Electrify America or otherwise, are all using the combo CCS/CHAdeMO. There are some original CHAdeMO charge stations that are not CCS compliant. And of course GM or BMW dealers won't be likely to support the dual standard. But public chargers should be dual standard. It's simple and easy and costs very little compared to the other costs.

I have no idea what we'll get going forward; what you say makes logical sense, for whatever that's worth these days.

I can tell you that I still see all three versions regularly in the wild - CHAdemO only sites, CCS only sites, and CHAdeMO+CCS sites.

 

[baragona]

I'm not rooting for GM or any automaker. I'm rooting for the EV revolution. The disappointing news on Tesla is terrible news for the EV revolution.

Tesla I feel is the only automaker who can kick-start the EV revolution into high gear and make the mainstream automakers respond. Without Tesla the other automakers will keep on doing what they always did...

 

[Mister Dave]

"Tesla paved the road, but GM is driving on it".

So silly. Remarks like this serve little purpose other than to rile up the base.

If Tesla paved the road...then GM better be making 4x4s...

What are you trying to say?

Wait, GM does make 4X4s. I was driving the one I usually store in my garage today (10250 miles on it in almost ten years - still has that new car smell! ). Did you mean 4X4 EVs?

I'm not rooting for GM or any automaker. I'm rooting for the EV revolution.

I'm rooting for what the market will support without tax subsidies. I guess that leaves the NFL out.

 

[saghost]

If Tesla paved the road...then GM better be making 4x4s...

Oddly enough, there's only one company making AWD EVs in any sort of numbers - and it isn't GM. In fact, except for the car this thread is about, everything they make is now AWD...

 

[Mister Dave]

Oddly enough, there's only one company making AWD EVs in any sort of numbers - and it isn't GM. In fact, except for the car this thread is about, everything they make is now AWD...

Not quite the same thing though:

All-wheel drive
As the name implies, all-wheel drive (AWD) feeds power to each corner. Depending on the system (designs vary), AWD can provide maximum forward traction during acceleration. It is especially helpful in sloppy road conditions and when driving over moderate off-road terrain. It can help get you going and keep you moving through mud, sand, and other loose surfaces. Most AWD systems deliver power primarily to one set of wheels, front or rear. When slippage is detected at one axle, power is diverted to the other axle, in hopes of finding more traction there.

Not all AWD systems are equal. Subaru’s AWD system always directs at least 20-percent of the engine’s power to the rear, and it can direct a larger amount aft if needed. Many other systems fitted to front-wheel-drive vehicles operate with 100 percent of the power normally going to the front wheels; the rear wheels then only receive power only when the front wheels start slipping.

AWD systems are especially helpful in rapidly changing conditions or when driving on a road with intermittent snow and ice. It is commonly used for car-based SUVs, as well as certain cars and minivans. (See our list of best AWD vehicles.)

Four-wheel drive
Although four-wheel drive (4WD) and AWD are designations that are often used interchangeably in advertising and sales literature, there is a difference. Generally, 4WD is optimized for severe off-road driving situations such as climbing over boulders, fording deep water, and tackling steep hills with loose, low-traction surfaces. Most 4WD systems have high and a low gear range, the latter used to increase low-speed climbing power. Some have differentials (which allow left and right wheels and front and rear axles to turn at different speeds) to be locked for maximum traction.

Modern 4WD systems are either full-time, which means they stay engaged; automatic, where the vehicle automatically switches between two- and four-wheel-drive mode; and part-time, which require the driver to manually shift between two- and four-wheel drive. Vehicles with a part-time system shouldn’t be driven on dry pavement when in 4WD mode, which could risk damage to the vehicle's drivetrain.

Aside from serious off-road enthusiasts, most drivers never come close to needing the capability that 4WD systems provide over and above AWD systems.