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$40k is ridiculously expensive. Even $30k is way too much. If they want to hit the middle class this car should NOT be priced above Prius and designed accordingly. Come on - this is a 4 seater for Christ sake! It is not SUV with tons of metal, glass, plastic and electronics. Who cares about aggressive design and 17" alloys - make it affordable instead.

As much as I like the idea of electric plugin, but this thing is not gonna fly. It will certainly get few thousands customers with income over $200k who just want to pay more to feel good about not using oil. These people could actually afford gas at $10/gallon. They just want to look green. Trendsetters or self-delusional. There are not many.

GM has set itself for a failure. To overcome financial troubles they should think broader, like Ford when he made Model T for $850 instead of comparable cars priced $2500. In few years model T price has dropped down to $450.

I believe GM has all the potential to make a revolution in auto industry. My suggestions to GM:
1. Get rid of middleman - sell directly over internet. Cut the price and pass savings to customers.
2. "It's the economy, stupid". Any decision should be free market based, not patriotic. Arguments like "do not support middle east pajama guys" will not last. Remember how Japanese manufactures captured the US market despite "buy American" attitude.
3. Cut the design costs. Why many do appreciate good looking car, yet majority will not pay for it. Just like benzes and bimmers - everybody like them but few drive them. Stick to the bottom line. If this car is intended for 70% of US population price it accordingly.
4. Do not beg government for a buck. If uncle Sam feels so it will give, but I would not rely on it. As I see it now GM is trying to prop the price up and lobbying tax cuts at the same time. The future tax cut should not be priced in and should come as a bonus to lure more customers.
5. Do not lie you can not make - you can if you want.

Remember, this is revolutionary car, which, if successful, will destroy the current auto industry as we know it. Think about it.
 

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$40k is ridiculously expensive. Even $30k is way too much.
I agree. I believe it can still be a few thousand above the Prius because the drive is fully electric and the fuel savings are obviously more than the Prius. At $4/gal gas, the Volt has to be priced around $27K to be an attractable and affordable alternative to a car like the Prius or even a conventional gas compact.

If they want to hit the middle class this car should NOT be priced above Prius and designed accordingly.
I agree, but I believe the Volt will eventually become GMs high-performance higher-class vehicle (if it is ever produced).

As much as I like the idea of electric plugin, but this thing is not gonna fly. It will certainly get few thousands customers with income over $200k who just want to pay more to feel good about not using oil. These people could actually afford gas at $10/gallon. They just want to look green. Trendsetters or self-delusional. There are not many.
I agree 100%. The Volt will by no means be an affordable car for most people anywhere in the near future. We all know that the middle class is suffering from high gas prices and that upper class folks can still afford to drive their gas guzzlers and luxury sedans. It's the middle class that has stopped buying big cars and trucks that put GM where they are. So I agree, GM will have to focus on the middle class.

GM has set itself for a failure. To overcome financial troubles they should think broader, like Ford when he made Model T for $850 instead of comparable cars priced $2500. In few years model T price has dropped down to $450.
Again, I agree 100%. But I don't think they have much ability to produce big cars anymore, without shipping all the labor overseas.

1. Get rid of middleman - sell directly over internet. Cut the price and pass savings to customers.
Probably won't work due to contracts, but it would be nice. I don't need someone to sell me a car. I do all my own research and make a decision for myself. Probably the only thing the factory couldn't do is arrange for test drives and show off cars on a lot.

2. "It's the economy, stupid". Any decision should be free market based, not patriotic. Arguments like "do not support middle east pajama guys" will not last. Remember how Japanese manufactures captured the US market despite "buy American" attitude.
I can't say I agree with you here either. I'm totally for US cars being built by US citizens with US parts. When we ship jobs overseas and import all our parts, it's not a good thing for the US.

Cut the design costs. Why many do appreciate good looking car, yet majority will not pay for it. Just like benzes and bimmers - everybody like them but few drive them. Stick to the bottom line. If this car is intended for 70% of US population price it accordingly.
I'm positive the Volt will be cut way back from what it was in concept form. No see thru plastics and rear lights, no big wheels, etc...

4. Do not beg government for a buck. If uncle Sam feels so it will give, but I would not rely on it. As I see it now GM is trying to prop the price up and lobbying tax cuts at the same time. The future tax cut should not be priced in and should come as a bonus to lure more customers.
Agreed. But depending how much of an energy crisis we are in, Uncle Sam might find it necessary to take action to switch our fleet over to a more domestic and cheaper alternative. And the best way to do that would be to offer consumers big tax breaks (like the Obama $7,000 one) on cars like the Volt.


5. Do not lie you can not make - you can if you want.
When GM lies or makes unpopular moves, it's almost always because of money. So if in 2011, GM refuses to make the Volt, it's probably because they don't see it as a money maker.


Remember, this is revolutionary car, which, if successful, will destroy the current auto industry as we know it. Think about it.
The current auto industry is already destroyed. They are just hanging on. A revolution, a merger, or a bailout is the only thing that will save the big three now. A merger between GM and Ford is unlikely (and who wants Chrysler), and a bailout has been pretty much ruled out. So a revolutionary car is the only thing that they have to look forward to. The only benefit I see is if all the parts of these kind of cars are made domestically. But then no one would be able to afford them. I dunno... things just suck for the US right now.
 

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$40k is ridiculously expensive. Even $30k is way too much. If they want to hit the middle class this car should NOT be priced above Prius and designed accordingly.

Remember, this is revolutionary car, which, if successful, will destroy the current auto industry as we know it. Think about it.
Don't you think these statements are a tad bit contradictory or do you feel GM owes you a "free" one? This is like a Prius, plus performance, plus a $10K battery pack, and plus design. You can't get around the battery pack cost and if you value the electric range at a grand total of $0 then this is not the car for you. An EREV will probably never cost the same or less than a comparable hybrid to buy unless the battery isn't part of the purchase.
 

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2. "It's the economy, stupid". Any decision should be free market based, not patriotic. Arguments like "do not support middle east pajama guys" will not last. Remember how Japanese manufactures captured the US market despite "buy American" attitude.
I'm sure the Japanese would never have been as successful at capturing our auto market if the US manufacturers hadn't been putting out CRAP. I remember looking at the Consumer Report auto issues and seeing lots of US cars - mostly made by GM - receive dismal ratings from their customers. I bought Japanese at that time, and have no regrets. I currently have two Ford products (F350 & Explorer) and couldn't be happier with them.

I don't think there are many Americans who wouldn't prefer to buy an American auto - we just don't want to buy an inferior product. There are no reasons that an American auto can't be the world's best*. Are you listening, GM?

* With the possible exception of management and unions.
 

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It's so easy to spout off about how GM should invest a billion dollars to develop a car that has never existed before and is superior to any other and then sell it for the same as an average sedan, or even less. Of course they should do all this just because you want one and you don't have the money. If they can sell every one of the first year production at say $50,000 to well off folks, why shouldn't they? Would it make you feel better if it was branded a Cadillac instead of Chevy?

Truth is, this is uncharted territory in that nobody has ever mass produced large format Li-Ion battery packs before and there is very little real world experience with them in an automotive application. This is why they are not planning on making 200,000 of them the first year. The first year is all about beta testing, not only the car but the manufacturing process too.

The Model T analogy is pretty stupid. I wish people would stop talking about Model Ts. Henry Ford's plan was to first, stripe the automoblie down to it's very bare minimum and create a car that was clearly inferior to all it's competition in every way except price. He did not create a technologically advanced car. Next he adapted a better manufacturing process for building them to make the over all cost to produce the car even less. This business plan does not in any way apply to the Volt.

GM is producing a technologically advanced car that is superior to it's competion. That costs alot of money. GM currently posesses some of the most productive manufacturing plants in the world. Not a whole lot of room to make building the Volt any cheaper. With regards to the battery pack, I'm sure they will be looking at ways to make it cheaper to build, but that will take time and experience because it just hasn't been done before.

Lastly, Malcolm Brickland in 1986 proved that Americans can't really stomach a Model T anymore when he put Yugos up for sale here in America. Small, striped down old tech and priced at $3990. Sure they were kind of crappy, but so was the Model T. We as consumers have moved beyond the Model T and there is no going back. India's another story. The Tata Nano will probably do very well there.

I am confident that GM will price the Volt where it needs to be in order for them to build them and still attract as many buyers as possible. We all want it cheap and we all want it yesterday, but sometimes we don't get just what we want when we want it.
 

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It Stinks In Here

quote: GM is producing a technologically advanced car that is superior to it's competion. That costs alot of money. GM currently posesses some of the most productive manufacturing plants in the world. Not a whole lot of room to make building the Volt any cheaper. With regards to the battery pack, I'm sure they will be looking at ways to make it cheaper to build, but that will take time and experience because it just hasn't been done before.

well yes its been done(the battery pack that is) Oil company owns rights to it now!!:cool:

technologically advanced car I dont think so!! some electric cars are far cheaper than this is supposed to be and you can buy them now not just a pipe dream (how come the volt isnt availible NOW!!!!) GM already had a electric car> lets see how long it will take to come to customers???????????? Oh im sorry still waiting!!!!!:eek:
 

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whynotnow????

well yes its been done(the battery pack that is) Oil company owns rights to it now!!:cool:

technologically advanced car I dont think so!! some electric cars are far cheaper than this is supposed to be and you can buy them now not just a pipe dream (how come the volt isnt availible NOW!!!!) GM already had a electric car> lets see how long it will take to come to customers???????????? Oh im sorry still waiting!!!!!:eek:
ur funny!!!!!!!!!! u have a lot of wacky idea about cars GM battery and history! can u post more???? what kind of electric car do you have?? because if you dont have one y not???? theyr far cheeper and you can get them NOW!!!!:cool: the volt is not that good because it not Toyota and it just not even real so we should all get a better cheaper electric car now! everybody knows GM is just going to do another ev-1 again and when they take back yuor volt or maybe just the battery ull have nothing!!!! only then GM will finally die!!:D
 

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My Lexus Hybrid GS450H lists for over $60,000, I would be willing to pay $70,000 or more for a Volt that had all the luxury features and comfort the Lexus has
 

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And exactly what percentage of automobile owners have $70,000 cars? Yeah, I thought so.

At stratospheric prices, the Volt and other electric-based cars will never have a serious impact on our oil usage.
 

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And exactly what percentage of automobile owners have $70,000 cars? Yeah, I thought so.

At stratospheric prices, the Volt and other electric-based cars will never have a serious impact on our oil usage.
I am not going to pull numbers out of my butt because I doubt anyone can give you an exact number. However Lexus, Mercedes, BMX and a bunch of other luxury car makers are in far better financial shape than Chevy and GM happens to be.

There is no point in debating the subject because there is no way to determine a winner, only time can do that. There is no reason why both markets can’t coexist, GM is in deep trouble and if they are going to survive they need to supply the widest range of the economic spectrum.

If past experience with profitability on per unit sales holds true car makers make their greatest profit on cars loaded with accessories. So in effect the buyers of luxury electric vehicles will give GM a higher profit margin and if the luxury version of the Volt produces a high enough of a profit margin it will give them the ability to sell the models with less options at a lower mark up. So in effect the people buying the luxury version of the Volt will be subsidizing the stripped down version of the volt.

America is the land of opportunity, if you work hard anyone can afford $30,000 for a volt. I spent my early years in a low income housing project, but my father worked hard to better himself, and I worked even harder. People work 35 hours a week and wonder why the can’t afford a $30,000 car. When I was young I worked 3 jobs, and when I eventually settled into one job I regularly put in 60 hour weeks, and still found time for my hobby of buying and fixing collectable cars at a profit. If you work hard enough and smart enough $60,000 shouldn’t be a problem, I retired before I turned 50 and I am driving a $60,000 Lexus and own 2 Corvettes.

Henry Ford once said success is all luck, the harder you work the luckier you get.

I have some very good friends that came to this country from Hong Kong with almost noting, They put in 12 hour days 7 day a week at the restaurant the opened here. The put two kids through collage own houses as rental property and can easily afford a $30,000 car, in fact they own two cars worthy more than $30,000 each. So if someone comes to a strange country and has to learn a new language and is able to afford two $30,000 cars why can’t someone who was born here afford a volt with out looking for the government to help pay for it with subsidies?
 
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