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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What Are The Most Efficient Electric Cars?


Hyundai Ioniq appears to hold the top spot in this article

Bolt comes in at #5. Full story and chart at Clean Technica.
 

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The issue I have with this is that it is relying solely on the EPA ratings. I realize that is the proper standard, and it works for cars like the Ioniq Electric that easily hits EPA numbers in real world driving. But it does nothing for the Bolt EV, which regularly beats EPA ratings in real world driving. And it makes some cars that have trouble hitting EPA mileage look better than they actually are.

Also, for some reason, they included the small battery Model 3, which we have no actual data for, but they omitted the Long Range Model 3.
 

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What about vampire drain? This might be significant for the model3 but EPA doesn't count it.
 

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The issue I have with this is that it is relying solely on the EPA ratings. I realize that is the proper standard, and it works for cars like the Ioniq Electric that easily hits EPA numbers in real world driving. But it does nothing for the Bolt EV, which regularly beats EPA ratings in real world driving. And it makes some cars that have trouble hitting EPA mileage look better than they actually are.

Also, for some reason, they included the small battery Model 3, which we have no actual data for, but they omitted the Long Range Model 3.
Are we looking at the same article? They didn't even use EPA ratings, much less "solely". Also the Model 3 LR is included. But the article is indeed junk and no conclusions should be based on it. Actually, I conclude that I should continue ignoring Clean Technica.
 

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Are we looking at the same article? They didn't even use EPA ratings, much less "solely". Also the Model 3 LR is included. But the article is indeed junk and no conclusions should be based on it. Actually, I conclude that I should continue ignoring Clean Technica.
I'll have to look it up again (link wasn't provided), but yes, as far as I could tell, they were using EPA numbers: "Bolt EV, 238 miles with 60 kWh battery = 3.97 mi/kWh. Done!"

What threw me was the Model 3 with 205 miles assuming something like a 50 kWh battery... 4.1 mi/kWh... woohoo! /sarcasm

Either way, I think you and I agree about the article overall.
 

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The Spark EV was by far the most efficient in real world use. The EPA numbers for it are wildly inaccurate.

I’m going to miss averaging 6mi/kWh in the summer when I eventually move to a different EV.
 

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The Spark EV was by far the most efficient in real world use. The EPA numbers for it are wildly inaccurate.

I’m going to miss averaging 6mi/kWh in the summer when I eventually move to a different EV.
What is your efficiency in your 2012 Volt?
 

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The issue I have with this is that it is relying solely on the EPA ratings.

Also, for some reason, they included the small battery Model 3, which we have no actual data for, but they omitted the Long Range Model 3.
Right, include a car that nobody can buy yet.
 

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What Are The Most Efficient Electric Cars?

Bolt comes in at #5. Full story and chart at Clean Technica.
Actually, the Bolt would be #3 - The C-Zero, the iMiEV and the Ion are all the same car. Pretty impressive that our Mitsubishi with it's 10 year old technology still rates as #2 - I'm truly surprised!

Don
 

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I think it all depends on your right foot. I make my Volt horribly inefficient all the time with stoplight drag races against pony cars and ricer boys. But if you have a BEV, does it really matter? BEVs burn zero Dino juice no matter how efficient or inefficient the system is. Isn't that the point?

With this new measuring stick, an all-electric retrofitted Hummer would be better than a gasoline powered Geo Metro.

Then, there's the whole "would I ever buy a Korean car" thing... just shoot me if I do, just like my family's marching orders if I ever buy a minivan. What drives me nuts is seeing how so many red blooded Americans are driving around in Kias and Hyundais. Buy a Cruze, Sonic, or Focus and help your fellow UAW workers in Detroit!!!
 

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I think it all depends on your right foot. I make my Volt horribly inefficient all the time with stoplight drag races against pony cars and ricer boys. But if you have a BEV, does it really matter? BEVs burn zero Dino juice no matter how efficient or inefficient the system is. Isn't that the point?

With this new measuring stick, an all-electric retrofitted Hummer would be better than a gasoline powered Geo Metro.

Then, there's the whole "would I ever buy a Korean car" thing... just shoot me if I do, just like my family's marching orders if I ever buy a minivan. What drives me nuts is seeing how so many red blooded Americans are driving around in Kias and Hyundais. Buy a Cruze, Sonic, or Focus and help your fellow UAW workers in Detroit!!!
Efficiency still matters to me, even with a BEV. It has range benefits, as well as saving money.

I agree that it’s a travesty how many foreign cars Americans buy. I don’t care about the UAW, but supporting companies and workers in your home country just makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What matters to me is "enough". We have enough range with enough to spare. On weekends if we're going a lot of places the L2 EVSE charges fast enough.

The tires weren't enough, so we got some BMW spec runflats. We lost about 10% of our range for the short term as the tires break in. And we still have enough range.

Now the car is quiet enough and the handling is more than good enough.

We are blessed.
 

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What matters to me is "enough". We have enough range with enough to spare. On weekends if we're going a lot of places the L2 EVSE charges fast enough.

The tires weren't enough, so we got some BMW spec runflats. We lost about 10% of our range for the short term as the tires break in. And we still have enough range.

Now the car is quiet enough and the handling is more than good enough.

We are blessed.
Another way to look at it is, the lifetime MPG meter on my volt blows way any vehicle I ever owned, despite my leadfoot. We are blessed. My only regret is not having the foresight to anticipate ELR price drops which would have been my ideal commuter vehicle.
 

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I agree that it’s a travesty how many foreign cars Americans buy. I don’t care about the UAW, but supporting companies and workers in your home country just makes sense.
It's hard to blame people who remember the days when Detroit was turning out garbage.

And today, buying a foreign car usually means supporting American workers anyway, since most of the manufacturers have established factories here.
 

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4-4.5mi/kwh in summer
Ok, so that's worse than the 4.8-4.9 mi/kWh I used to average in my Volt, but I doubt I could do better than the 6 mi/kWh you see in your Spark EV in my typical daily driving. Were you driving the two cars differently?

If I drive for specifically for efficiency, I can easily maintain over 6 mi/kWh in my Bolt EV, but that feels like borderline hypermiling. If the 70 mph freeway saves me 10 to 15 minutes, I'll take it. Even if that means dropping the efficiency down to 4-4.5 mi/kWh.
 

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It's hard to blame people who remember the days when Detroit was turning out garbage.

And today, buying a foreign car usually means supporting American workers anyway, since most of the manufacturers have established factories here.
Just because they have a plant or two in the US doesn’t give them a free pass if the majority of cars are manufactured abroad. The only companies I knew of who had plants here were Toyota, Honda, Subaru, and BMW, but a quick web search revealed that Nissan, Mazda, Hyundai, and Kia also have US plants.

US manufacturers have long improved their quality to catch up to the Japanese, and let’s not forget the crap that Hyundai produced in the 80s (since then much improved). Sorry, you won’t ever convince me to buy a Korean product. My view from the sidelines is that they add gimmicky features that impresses the wives (no different than LG and Samsung with appliances) but the quality and engineering isn’t there.

I’ll likely be a GM man to the grave, and surprise, surprise, I’m Asian. Most people would expecte me to be rolling a rice burner (Toyota or Honda). Full disclosure, I do like the looks of the Acura NSX. You’ll have to forgive me for that one guilty pleasure if I end up buying one. But show me an American made car that is equivalent? I don’t think the corvette or viper comes close. Maybe the new Ford GT.
 

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It's hard to blame people who remember the days when Detroit was turning out garbage.

And today, buying a foreign car usually means supporting American workers anyway, since most of the manufacturers have established factories here.
It sometimes supports US workers. But, the high-paying design/engineering is done overseas. And, the profits go overseas.
 

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Ok, so that's worse than the 4.8-4.9 mi/kWh I used to average in my Volt, but I doubt I could do better than the 6 mi/kWh you see in your Spark EV in my typical daily driving. Were you driving the two cars differently?

If I drive for specifically for efficiency, I can easily maintain over 6 mi/kWh in my Bolt EV, but that feels like borderline hypermiling. If the 70 mph freeway saves me 10 to 15 minutes, I'll take it. Even if that means dropping the efficiency down to 4-4.5 mi/kWh.
My wife drives the Volt more than I do these days. I probably could do 4.8mi/kwh if I really tried (no HVAC).

The Spark EV will do 6mi/kwh on my 70/30 highway/local roads commute without much effort. If I go over 65 for long it does drop. But, the highway speed limit here is 55 and with traffic that's a pretty accurate average speed for me.
 
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