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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
GM states the average daily commute is 40 miles. This board also states GM changed the Volt from the hot concept to the boring production model because it adds 7 extra miles to the electric range.

Let me explain why 7 extra miles is totally not worth the change. Lets pretend the concept Volt really only went 33 miles on a charge and the extra 7 miles were billed to you at 40mpg @ $7.00 a gallon.

7 miles* 365 days = 2555 miles driven on gas
2,555/40mpg = 64 gallons
64 Gallons * $7.00 gallon = $448.00

Look at these numbers. GM made this hot concept design car UGLY to save a driver $448.00 a year, but don't forget this is a $40K car...so in reality you're not saving anything unless a gallon of gas reaches over $13.00 a gallon(compared to a 40mpg asian hybrid @ $20K)

I don't know about you guys and gals, but I would take the hot concept version for an extra $448.00 a year in gas.

I just thought of something crazy!

What if GM will release both the concept and production model design cars? Now that would be awesome.
 

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Design Change a No-Brainer

Hey Hybridnation - I understand your point of view, but really GM is in a no-win situation. Imagine that they had done what you want. They would have produced a car that fell short of their highly publicized goal - 40 electric miles. Then just imagine the response of the critics - "look at the horrible drag numbers on this car, how can GM make a car for the future with aerodynamics of a car from the 50s." I've seen people complain on this site about the "horrible" aerodynamic numbers for the production version. I've seen lots of people complain about the appearance the production vehicle on this web-site. I have not seen anyone produce a skecth that would look better than what GM came up with while having equal or better numbers.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey Hybridnation - I understand your point of view, but really GM is in a no-win situation. Imagine that they had done what you want. They would have produced a car that fell short of their highly publicized goal - 40 electric miles. Then just imagine the response of the critics - "look at the horrible drag numbers on this car, how can GM make a car for the future with aerodynamics of a car from the 50s." I've seen people complain on this site about the "horrible" aerodynamic numbers for the production version. I've seen lots of people complain about the appearance the production vehicle on this web-site. I have not seen anyone produce a skecth that would look better than what GM came up with while having equal or better numbers.
Are you saying you'd spend 40K on the Volt when the new Honda Insight 2009 will sell for only $18,000?

The $18,000 Insight is supposed to get better gas mileage than the Prius. One should also look into the Honda CRZ hybrid
 

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It's a "green" car

This car will not be economically viable even at $35k (this is my guess for the price of the car). The reason for this is the big, heavy, expensive battery pack that enables the all-electric range. What market does such a vehicle address? It looks like GM believes it addresses the "green" market, which they are betting is bigger than the "green and sporty" market--thus the focus on reducing energy consumption as much as possible. My question about this strategy is, why only 4 seats?
 

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This car will not be economically viable even at $35k (this is my guess for the price of the car). The reason for this is the big, heavy, expensive battery pack that enables the all-electric range. What market does such a vehicle address? It looks like GM believes it addresses the "green" market, which they are betting is bigger than the "green and sporty" market--thus the focus on reducing energy consumption as much as possible. My question about this strategy is, why only 4 seats?
The reason for 4 seats is simple - they needed the space between the back seats for the battery. Even with the advanced Li-Ion technology, the battery on the Volt is huge - much bigger than the gas tank on a standard car. In addition, it has to be highly protected from a collision because it holds enough electrical energy to electrocute rescue workers. Rescue workers take a chance today when using the "jaws of life" on a 1.6KWH Prius. The Volt holds 10 times as much energy, so they had to be much more conservative.

It's frustrating seeing everyone dump on GM for making the Volt styling more conservative. Personally, I think you're being too hard on the design team. The goal of the Volt was fuel economy and "green cred". The car has to have a different look so that people can say "Look at me - I have a green car!" Those are the people that will line up and gladly pay $40K for their Volt, so they can tell everyone that they're getting 100MPG on the way to work. GM needs these buyers for the first generation Volt so that they can get some experience with the process, and then ramp up to something everyone can buy.

If GM had kept the sporty look and let the range drop to 33 miles, they would have lost these early adopter costomers. GM would have been accused of "giving up mileage for styling", and they would have lost the "green cred" they've been hard working to acquire.

Just let GM build the boring Volt. They could easily sell out the first year at $50K per car, and could sell out the second year at $40K per car. After all, these are the same people putting deposits on $100K Teslas and $80K Fisker Karmas. That's the effect when well-to-do people get desperate to look 'green' in front of their neighbors. By the third year, the green effect will have worn off, and GM will come out with a wider range of cars at more reasonable prices.

Let GM do their job and build the Volt. If you want something with more style - go buy a Karma.
 

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Although I have yet to see the new VOLT completely as it is set to release....(and I'm never a fan of early corporate photos with white backrounds etc)

I believe GM should have kept the show car styling and screw the aerodynamic numbers..

Real world it would not have meant crap and everyone would have craved the GM show car look..

Maybe GM will offer two versions down the road..
One the sexy four door camaro version that was the show car and one that is more fuel efficient..

Should be interesting to see which one sells better...
 

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IMHO we really need to get beyond the thinking that the 2010 Chevy Volt is the end of the story. Its only the beginning. The technology that will finally be on the streets is the important thing, not so much how the first model looks. GM will have time to improve the body design in both future models and placing the same plug-in technology in other cars. I see the body style of the first Volt as the wedding dress. The important thing is the bride, not what she's wearing. After the wedding there will be plenty of opportunities to get her some different outfits. We should be thankful that we're getting married, the future and not focus so much on the wedding day and acting like a lack of lace is a deal breaker.

BTW: The Volt body design BLOWS AWAY the Prius, not to mention the technology under the hood.
 

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When you're young and stupid you select your girlfriends based on their looks and not their substance. You want the hot looking girl with the bitchy personality. She looks good on your arm and people think you are cool and a winner.

As you get older you realize that dating a woman with no substance or a personality that works against you is energy draining. If you select your girlfriends by looking at what is on the inside and less about what is on the outside you will be much more happy.

Just a little advice that can be used in many aspects of your life. Take it or leave it.
 

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The redesign didn't just consider aerodynamics. It was also chosen because it's easier and cheaper to manufacture as well.

The Volt is still superior to the Prius both inside and out. I'm not disappointed.
 

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Are you saying you'd spend 40K on the Volt when the new Honda Insight 2009 will sell for only $18,000?

The $18,000 Insight is supposed to get better gas mileage than the Prius. One should also look into the Honda CRZ hybrid
You're changing arguments. The original question was, is losing the concept design worth an extra seven electric miles per day. Answer: no-brainer, yes, absolutely.

You're new argument is, at $40K wouldn't you rather buy something else? Answer: too many unknowns. We speculate about so much stuff on this site. Until I see what the real price tags are, with the government tax incentives that are actually available, I can't make a logical choice. We're talking about two cars that are not even for sale yet. All other things being equal, I'd prefer to buy American, and buy a car that will get me through over 90% of my days without using a drop of petroleum. We can specultate that all other things will not be equal, but that is an argument that no one can win, becuase no one knows.

P.S. - Nice to see you again Texas; your advice is right on point.
 

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Just a little advice that can be used in many aspects of your life. Take it or leave it.
Absolutely take it!
Cheap energy along with big dollops of machismo and status, our car culture has been pushed and driven for decades by form over function. Times are a'changing as we pursue more long term economically viable, efficient and clean energies and transportation. Function over form needs to be the mantra for the next few decades, probably with bland visual results, until we finally reach an energy nirvana with say massive, clean and secure hydrogen down the road.
 

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When you're young and stupid you select your girlfriends based on their looks and not their substance. You want the hot looking girl with the bitchy personality. She looks good on your arm and people think you are cool and a winner.

As you get older you realize that dating a woman with no substance or a personality that works against you is energy draining. If you select your girlfriends by looking at what is on the inside and less about what is on the outside you will be much more happy.

Just a little advice that can be used in many aspects of your life. Take it or leave it.
This is good advice.
A persons personality has nothing to do with "looks". On the other hand a cars personality is looks, response, cost and how you feel when you get in and drive. So each person will respond different to each car. I understand the people who do not care at all what their car looks like, as long as its cheap and reliable. I also understand the people who want a great looking car. The car you choose to drive is an extention of yourself very much like the life partner you choose. I want beauty in both- with sophistication, inteligence, well rounded inside and out, responsive, trustworthy and fun to look at. Wow, thats a tall order. It took many years to find the partner, now we need the car.
I prefer the look of the concept. The production car is more efficient. Its the technology that is attractive here more than the looks, but I will have both in time. There will very likely be more sporty versions as time goes on, maybe even a 2 seater.
I commend GM for the advances they are making and look forward to see whats next!
 

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When you're young and stupid you select your girlfriends based on their looks and not their substance. You want the hot looking girl with the bitchy personality. She looks good on your arm and people think you are cool and a winner.

As you get older you realize that dating a woman with no substance or a personality that works against you is energy draining. If you select your girlfriends by looking at what is on the inside and less about what is on the outside you will be much more happy.

Just a little advice that can be used in many aspects of your life. Take it or leave it.
LOL
Great response and analogy! Unfortunately your sage advice is likely to pass right on through the Great Void >>>:confused:>>>

At this juncture I don't see why we have to accept having to deal with these children that are starting numerous disruptive threads, with repetitive titles and themes, making the exact same statements backed by few facts and even less science. It detracts from the majority here that are attempting to productively discuss the intimate details of the production Volt (discussing a concept car is senseless once it progresses to the next stage of development)
Maybe it's time for some more active moderation on here...
WopOnTour
 

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Discussion Starter #14
LOL
Great response and analogy! Unfortunately your sage advice is likely to pass right on through the Great Void >>>:confused:>>>

At this juncture I don't see why we have to accept having to deal with these children that are starting numerous disruptive threads, with repetitive titles and themes, making the exact same statements backed by few facts and even less science. It detracts from the majority here that are attempting to productively discuss the intimate details of the production Volt (discussing a concept car is senseless once it progresses to the next stage of development)
Maybe it's time for some more active moderation on here...
WopOnTour
You can't have a 'next stage' if the first stage falls flat on its face. Your post is exactly why GM will die. You have a bunch of out of touch board members who sit around the table saying, "These consumers don't know what they want. We should tell them what they want."

Fortunately for other car manufacturers like Toyota and Honda they're not so ignorant. They listen to their customers more. Now if you want to continue on with the GM mentality of 'we're right and the consumers are wrong' go right on ahead and start active censorship on a public board lol. Censoring people because it's not the same opinion as yours your Majesty will do nothing more than hurt GM. That's all this board needs. More 'Yes-Men' to tell people what they like and how other people are wacko for not thinking the same.

Mark my words folks. You guys continue to think looks have zero impact on a buyer and Japan will continue to take over. When Japan hits back with its sub $19K hybrid in 2009 people will NOT buy a Volt, not when it's 2x the cost.

BTW, the Wall Street Journal showed a production pic Volt today. GM then dropped 12% to $11.44 a share.

We need an electric car badly, but we will never have it if the first stage fails. I don't think the Volt will fail because of the boring looks alone. That was never my point. It's the combination of a high price tag and generic looks that makes the poison.

This is my last rant and participation on this board. I can't stand censor trolls who sit on a forum for hours a day telling people to shut up if they don't have the same opinion.
 

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Nobody wants to "censor" or stifle your opinions.
However there is absolutely no need to create multiple threads making the exact same statements or posing the exact same questions. Please note how some members (such as Texas) have felt the need to provide you with a "rubber-stamp" duplicate response to your numerous, repetitive posts, in multiple threads (Trust me others will follow)
So try starting ONE thread on a single topic, post your item of interest, opinion, rant or what-have-you and respond to others that reply as required (or not) and leave it at that!

JUST DON'T POST MULTIPLE THREADS IN MULTIPLE FORUMS BASICALLY STATING THE EXACT SAME THING PLEASE!!

hybridnation said:
BTW, The Wall Street Journal showed a production pic Volt today.GM then dropped 12% to $11.44 a share.
LOL
Are you truly THAT out-of-touch with reality? It should be quite obvious the 2 events are totally unrelated. Pretty much ALL stocks (including Toyota and Honda I might add) seen some serious drops today due to more bad news on the investment banking front (i.e. Merrill Lynch and Lehman Bros. in Chapter 11)
The fact that you even attempted to associate the 2 events clearly demonstrates of your childish intentions.
I hope you keep your word and this is truly the end of your participation here troll

DLTDHYITAOYWO!

WopOnTour
 

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You can't have a 'next stage' if the first stage falls flat on its face. Your post is exactly why GM will die. You have a bunch of out of touch board members who sit around the table saying, "These consumers don't know what they want. We should tell them what they want."

Fortunately for other car manufacturers like Toyota and Honda they're not so ignorant. They listen to their customers more. Now if you want to continue on with the GM mentality of 'we're right and the consumers are wrong' go right on ahead and start active censorship on a public board lol. Censoring people because it's not the same opinion as yours your Majesty will do nothing more than hurt GM. That's all this board needs. More 'Yes-Men' to tell people what they like and how other people are wacko for not thinking the same.

Mark my words folks. You guys continue to think looks have zero impact on a buyer and Japan will continue to take over. When Japan hits back with its sub $19K hybrid in 2009 people will NOT buy a Volt, not when it's 2x the cost.

BTW, the Wall Street Journal showed a production pic Volt today. GM then dropped 12% to $11.44 a share.

We need an electric car badly, but we will never have it if the first stage fails. I don't think the Volt will fail because of the boring looks alone. That was never my point. It's the combination of a high price tag and generic looks that makes the poison.

This is my last rant and participation on this board. I can't stand censor trolls who sit on a forum for hours a day telling people to shut up if they don't have the same opinion.

LOL! Honda and Toyota not telling you what to like? Are you serious? The prius and Insight are far uglier cars. The Japanese are definitely NOT known for styling and personality. They are known for reliability and fuel efficiency. EXACTLY what GM is trying with the Volt. It is the exact OPPOSITE of what they did in the past thankfully.

GM gave guys like you what they wanted for far too long; form over function. That is what got them in trouble. The fact is, that view is out of date. They were desperately out of touch with the NEEDS of the consumer. Do you really think people bought a Prius for styling? I own a Honda Insight. Believe me, I didn't buy it for looks. I bought it for enviremental, political, and ecconomic reasons. Exactly why I'm even more interested in the Volt. So if the Green concious are their intended target market, they sure suceeded with me.


Cheap oil is over. Form over funcion is over. Global warming is real. The sooner you get used to it and learn to adjust, the sooner our economy can recover.
 

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I say they need to stop whining about not being able to get the 7 extra miles, and make the prototype version get the 40 miles they said. I'm sure they can come up with a way to make the prototype version and get the mileage they want, or just offer an option to have either body style. Although who would pick the ugly new one at $40k?
 

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You can't have a 'next stage' if the first stage falls flat on its face. Your post is exactly why GM will die. You have a bunch of out of touch board members who sit around the table saying, "These consumers don't know what they want. We should tell them what they want."

Fortunately for other car manufacturers like Toyota and Honda they're not so ignorant. They listen to their customers more. Now if you want to continue on with the GM mentality of 'we're right and the consumers are wrong' go right on ahead and start active censorship on a public board lol. Censoring people because it's not the same opinion as yours your Majesty will do nothing more than hurt GM. That's all this board needs. More 'Yes-Men' to tell people what they like and how other people are wacko for not thinking the same.

Mark my words folks. You guys continue to think looks have zero impact on a buyer and Japan will continue to take over. When Japan hits back with its sub $19K hybrid in 2009 people will NOT buy a Volt, not when it's 2x the cost.

BTW, the Wall Street Journal showed a production pic Volt today. GM then dropped 12% to $11.44 a share.

We need an electric car badly, but we will never have it if the first stage fails. I don't think the Volt will fail because of the boring looks alone. That was never my point. It's the combination of a high price tag and generic looks that makes the poison.

This is my last rant and participation on this board. I can't stand censor trolls who sit on a forum for hours a day telling people to shut up if they don't have the same opinion.
hybridnation I hear ya, the car is ugly and boring looking now. I've looked around on this board a lot. And they're right there are repetitive arguments on here. I see the same names defending this pig over and over again. My conclusion is that this board has an infestation for corporate shills here to steer opinions. I even read one post where someone said the Volt looked better than the concept. Many of these people posting here are simply damage control. Sorry GM your titanic just hit the iceberg.
 

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Drag

I would have paid another $4.23 for another gallon of gas to go the extra mile vs the new look of the new Lumina, which is what you designers have created.



Hey Hybridnation - I understand your point of view, but really GM is in a no-win situation. Imagine that they had done what you want. They would have produced a car that fell short of their highly publicized goal - 40 electric miles. Then just imagine the response of the critics - "look at the horrible drag numbers on this car, how can GM make a car for the future with aerodynamics of a car from the 50s." I've seen people complain on this site about the "horrible" aerodynamic numbers for the production version. I've seen lots of people complain about the appearance the production vehicle on this web-site. I have not seen anyone produce a skecth that would look better than what GM came up with while having equal or better numbers.
 

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Morons argue against themselves

Sheesh... over and over again people stomp their feet and cry "Boring production Volt, Prius, Civic Hybrid, Insight, WAAAAAH!" These idiot say "Oh, no one will buy the Volt because it looks like a normal car, GM is doomed!" and in the same post "Look! New Insight, Prius!" when these cars are cut from the same Generic Transportation Unit cloth as the new Volt, because that's what bloody well SELLS. Look at the number of Camrys (Camries? neither looks right, damned stupid name!) you see on the street. You're not even thinking about that huge number because they're ubiquitous. They're generic and normal-looking and they sell like free beer.

If GM builds a weird-looking niche Volt as the first e-flex car it will flop. 8,000 people who like a unique car that makes people look at them will buy it, and then sales will trickle off to nothing. GM needs a Camry/Impala/Altima sort of vehicle to carry the e-flex banner in the first cycle, so it doesn't have to get past the weirdness factor to get to customers. Over the last few years Toyota has sold more Camrys in a MONTH than GM probably plans to sell Volts in the first year! GM could do much worse than producing a "boring" car that sells like the Camry.
 
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