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Yes it can. It is less likely to do it at high power demands than simple 'HOLD', but if the SOC is not too low the engine runs at a modest power setting and will run just like hold, albeit at the next power set point up to assist in battery charging.

It is not so dumb that it simply runs flat out as fast as it can, it eases off as it increases the SOC.
I have done this, too, using mountain mode before going below the threshold to preserve enough charge for driving electrically at the destination without preserving too much. However, using something similar to hold mode with a larger battery buffer doesn't seem to be what "Volting" is about. He speaks of using mountain mode to recharge the battery, which not only loses energy in the conversion from kinetic energy to electric and back, but adds the losses of converting electric to chemical energy and back, along with additional heat loss, and, other than in exceptional cases, prevents a direct mechanical link from the engine to the wheels when recharging the battery.

The engine may make up some of the difference by running at a more efficient engine speed, but I doubt that it makes up the whole difference in every case, much less making up more than the difference. I also believe GM's engineering team when it says that power split is 15% more efficient, because it just makes sense.
 

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As for comments about breaking the laws of physics … it’s not as simple as that. In the case of MM vs. HM, adding an additional charge load that, say, is twice the energy requirement, might not require twice the input. Some of the heat and friction losses of just running the engine don’t necessarily have to be paid for twice. You might be able to double the output at something less than 100% added input.
Thank heavens at least one member understood the OP. I still think "volting" would be a bad idea for ME, because of the accelerated rate of using up battery charge cycles, and my lack of displeasure in driving at hwy speeds on ICE, but I agree that dismissing it as impossible is unjustified without a lot of technical data for output vs fuel input that is not in evidence. Many, here, have totally misunderstood the OP, saying he's just gaming the numbers. Others, having read one or another of our experts post that it is impossible due to physics, have jumped on that bandwagon. Saying that it takes at least twice the fuel to generate twice the energy is just not accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Thanks guys for all the interesting reply’s - regarding the Volting article, I’m somewhat surprised by some of the comments since after posting my article on Pre-heating techniques;

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread...gine-Assisted-Heating-Procedures-%96-Mike-Mas

The biggest complaint was most owners “hated” to use the volt engine under any conditions to include ERDTT, or even when it came to sacrificing of their own comfort. So I thought an article outlining a technique where you can leave the engine off would be outstanding!

The results I obtained can be achieved by anyone. I do this trip to Atlanta around twice a week so I know it works. This technique is not magical, in brief whats happening is the engine is pushing the car down the highway and by working a bit harder to charge the battery it results in a number of benefits.

I travel the speed limit of 65 but for the sake of this example lets use 60 mph. We’re cruising down the highway at 60 mph in MM - the engine is producing enough power to propel the car at 60 mph and at the same time producing enough “extra energy” to charge and store “one mile each minute” in the battery. So each hour of running time the engine is producing enough energy to propel “two” cars at 60 mph, but we’re saving the energy of the second car for later use.

Unlike my RV example, there is a fuel cost for Mountain mode, however when we add the 35 mpg fuel saved when we use our stored battery energy, our mileage will go up to 40-50 mpg. This is why I was able to achieve the 42 mpg in my article during winter months.

These are different times now and the cost of charging is just about the same as gas, so there really is no benefit to charging verses fuel. On the up side, with Volting we’re using the engine half the amount of hours, so that’s good.

With regards to concerns of charging - you’re never going to wear your volt batteries out - plus we’re only charging to 45% so for the most part out batteries will last a life time. On Hybrid cars, the Lithium batteries may cycle 30-50 times a day yet still last the lifetime of the car.

I surely can’t speak for others, but I bought an electric car to drive it in electric mode as much as I can. On my trips to Atlanta, Volting enables me to drive for two hours in electric mode instead of 35 minutes and I’m saving fuel in the process.

Regards - Mike
 

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I would never double post anything on this forum - since the article was for Volts and ELR's, I posted in both discussion forums, since its very unlikely that an ELR owner would visit this forum and vice versa.
Your article on Volting is a valuable contribution to our on-going analysis of how GM’s extended range vehicles operate, but the "double posting" is confusing. A visitor logging onto the website is taken to the Home page, where the most recent postings from the various forums are posted and slowly scroll off as newer posts appear. Postings include the subject line but not the specific forum. Viewing any of these messages leads to another viewing option: to view Today’s Postings, where the subject line again appears, sorted by the most recent posted comment.

Your two postings show up on the Home page lacking a forum reference, and thus appear to be a double posting. If the subject is of interest, which posting is read, which posting receives comments? Participating in a discussion is more productive in a single gathering, rather than trying to follow the same discussion in two different forums.

We all complain about GM’s lack of marketing efforts on behalf of the extended range vehicles, but perhaps that’s because the vehicles are so unique, no one really has a handle yet on the best way to operate them. We all have been "massaging" them into our everyday lives, using what we know from our ICE car experiences and trying out new options. That’s why your current posting is a valuable contribution to the discussion.

You seek to determine if switching between Normal and Mountain Mode on drives beyond battery range can help reduce overall gas consumption (increasing the MPG), and note that doing so allows you to drive on battery power a greater percent of the time during extend range driving. Others prefer to maximize their MPGcs, which usually drops when using MM to recharge as you drive.
 

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I surely can’t speak for others, but I bought an electric car to drive it in electric mode as much as I can. On my trips to Atlanta, Volting enables me to drive for two hours in electric mode instead of 35 minutes and I’m saving fuel in the process.
Agreed. And I get this part, run in MM for short burst then turn it off. And I may try it next trip I have.
 

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Saying that it takes at least twice the fuel to generate twice the energy is just not accurate.
Yes there could be some efficiency saving that would not require exactly twice the energy to generate twice the output, but these will in no way be substantial enough to justify a comment like "The real important fact here is its doing so using about the same amount of fuel it takes to move one car"

It will not take "about the same amount of fuel" for the generator to propel a car at 60mph and to generate twice that electricity.

If you really believe so I suggest you try to put the real numbers down :)
 

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I am skeptical, but I am curious to see if it can save some gas and I will probably experiment with it to convince myself one way or the other. I think the biggest way to lose at this game is if you return home with charge in the battery, which is quite possible if you leave it in MM too long. In that case, you have charged your battery using gas when it could have been grid power, which totally defeats the idea of the Voltec power train. This might be a reason Chevy didn't make gas charging easier (or that volting was determined to be inefficient).
 

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got to throw my 5 cents in on this
from my stand point I can see the benefits to volting, A - recharging your batteries to a lower state has a lot less stress to the batteries than charging them fully and you should be able to recharge them a whole lot more times that way then fully charging them . B- the ICE is a clumbersome thing that doesn't react quickly to change because of the mass of everything, so as the traction motor is pulling current on and off depending on road condition and driver input there is going to be times where there is no load on the ICE and I can see the batteries stepping up to take all that waisted power and puting it into the batteries and ending up with a higher overall eff. just thinking outside the box
 

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I once did a test HM versus MM with my Volt 2014. The idea was the following: after using all the AER, I continued in genset mode for 100 km and the next time I used MM to charge the battery up to 50% and once the genset started to act as the car in Hold mode I switched to Normal mode. In the end, there was no difference between the too in mpg values, or at least it was verry little. I have to underline the fact that the speed was 65 mph or less. I suppose that for speeds greater than 65 mph there is a difference in the mpg, but I am not that sure it is significant. And yes, the miles in Normal mode after the MM were registered as gas-miles even though I run on battery.
 

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got to throw my 5 cents in on this
from my stand point I can see the benefits to volting, A - recharging your batteries to a lower state has a lot less stress to the batteries than charging them fully and you should be able to recharge them a whole lot more times that way then fully charging them . B- the ICE is a clumbersome thing that doesn't react quickly to change because of the mass of everything, so as the traction motor is pulling current on and off depending on road condition and driver input there is going to be times where there is no load on the ICE and I can see the batteries stepping up to take all that waisted power and puting it into the batteries and ending up with a higher overall eff. just thinking outside the box
The battery is already getting babied only charged to about 70-80% capacity and down to 25-30%. Its not like a leaf that tries to use 100% of the battery. I don't think anyone is going to see a difference doing a number of MM charges vs. doing a bunch of 0 to full charges on a volt. So far, I have yet to see anyone with a valid claim of losing battery bars like the Leaf does in sunny hot Ariaona.
 

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Actually, while the drag increases as the velocity squared, the power required to overcome it increases as the velocity cubed.

A 125 hp car can hit 120 mph, but it takes 1000 hp to hit 240 mph (Bugatti).

Consider,

Power = force * velocity

If the force is that of drag (Fd), to keep a constant velocity, then

P = Fd * v

Fd = K * v * v, where K = 1/2 * coefficient of drag * frontal area of the car * air density

So,

P = K * v*v*v

So even worse than I stated.
 

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Yes, physics is a hard mistress! :)
 

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***

Thanks for the reply - I'm not saying I discovered MM - I opened this article with the statement that guys have been using MM for the same purpose - the Volting technique just shows it put to a more piratical use and to show its more cost effective and a more enjoyable way to travel.

My personal link was just for interest purposes to share information on electric Drones - I'm not in any business or selling anything or in any way attempting to draw users from the forum.

I would never double post anything on this forum - since the article was for Volts and ELR's, I posted in both discussion forums, since its very unlikely that an ELR owner would visit this forum and vice versa.

My gosh I'm taken back and very hurt that you would issue a warning to remove me from the forum for only sharing information about the very same cars we discuss every day - It takes months to do these articles!

Regard Mike
Mike, I'll apologize if it seems I come down a little heavy. Sorry.
I/we had no trouble with the article itself and of course I realize how much effort you put into it. I've done a great many myself. So Kudos
Putting the exact same article in both the ELR and Volt forums has in the past been an example of cross-posting but I can understand your rationale. In the past users somehow felt they needed to post their latest topics in 2, 3, 12, different forums and that is what we try to control. But just about everything that pertains the to the Volt, also pertains to the ELR as their propulsion systems are essentially identical. So what you are endorsing is every signal subject matter that in any way could relate to both cars, will then require double-posting. Sorry, we just cant have that. My advice is to choose a forum that you feel will get the most mileage and go with it.

Don't worry if it's worth discussing (as this topic certainly is) people will find it. Re-reading the entire thread with many new users giving you a "thumbs up" for you efforts, YES sometimes we forget about all the new people joining these forums (yourself included) and simply assume they already know about everything, every topic that that we have gone through, hashed out and contestly debated repeatedly here over the course of the last 5-years. That of course would and could not be true.
So again I'll apologize but ask that you keep to singular thread creation. Thanks

As far as personal interest links again, our main concern was links to competing forums and commercial sites. You say yours isn't the case and I'll take your word for it. But once you let one member do it then EVERYONE starts dropping links to this and that site, that might have hardcore pron ;) (we try to be family friendly here) someone selling sunglasses or sneakers, or malware/virus laden in which we take the blame. Having everyone posting links just makes it hard for us moderator to know where our loyal users are being linked to and we simply cannot take the time (everyone on the moderator team are simply volunteers) to check each and every one of these links out- so it's best to JUST SAY NO.

No problem linking to a Volt/ELR related article, news piece or things of that nature that generates discussion just not to business/personal blogs/ads etc.
We take pride in having worked hard (both users and moderators alike) over the past 5+ years turning gm-volt.com into THE definitive source of GM electrified product information and 3rd party owner/user support on the web. We simply wish to keep it that way. But without some rules there would be anarchy.

I hope you understand. But once one of our moderators reports a member ignoring his or her warning, something needs to be said. BTW we don't ever arbitrarily ban people here.(other than genuine trolls) and especially not actual Voltec owners- this site is for them! Usually if someone is ignoring our moderator warnings on a 3rd strike we would maybe give them a "week off" and they can decide through that week if they want to continue to be a participant here. Some never come back. Some come back in spades better than ever! Just ask elemental !! ;)

Perhaps in this case I should have used a little more couth and PM'd you instead.
Again, I was wrong and I'm sorry.

In the meantime, as you were...

WopOnTour
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 · (Edited)
Your article on Volting is a valuable contribution to our on-going analysis of how GM’s extended range vehicles operate, but the "double posting" is confusing. A visitor logging onto the website is taken to the Home page, where the most recent postings from the various forums are posted and slowly scroll off as newer posts appear. Postings include the subject line but not the specific forum. Viewing any of these messages leads to another viewing option: to view Today’s Postings, where the subject line again appears, sorted by the most recent posted comment.
Just to set the record straight, I never doubled posted my article - since the story was for ELR's and Volts, I posted it once on the Volt discussion forum and once on the ELR discussion forum. The reason is because its unlikely that a ELR user would visit the Volt forum and vice versa.

Multiple posting is generally placed by someone selling something - I'm not selling anything, I'm just another Volt owner like you guys who enjoys his car and enjoys learning and sharing information with other owners!

Thanks
 

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Idleup, if you use like myself the "what's new" button, than it is like double posting, because your article appears 2 times. I think this is what WOT is referring to. You posted the thread on two different sub-forums but in the end, due to this button, it looks like a double posting. This is my opinion only.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Mike, I'll apologize if it seems I come down a little heavy. Sorry.
I/we had no trouble with the article itself and of course I realize how much effort you put into it. I've done a great many myself. So Kudos
Putting the exact same article in both the ELR and Volt forums has in the past been an example of cross-posting but I can understand your rationale. In the past users somehow felt they needed to post their latest topics in 2, 3, 12, different forums and that is what we try to control. But just about everything that pertains the to the Volt, also pertains to the ELR as their propulsion systems are essentially identical. So what you are endorsing is every signal subject matter that in any way could relate to both cars, will then require double-posting. Sorry, we just cant have that. My advice is to choose a forum that you feel will get the most mileage and go with it.

Don't worry if it's worth discussing (as this topic certainly is) people will find it. Re-reading the entire thread with many new users giving you a "thumbs up" for you efforts, YES sometimes we forget about all the new people joining these forums (yourself included) and simply assume they already know about everything, every topic that that we have gone through, hashed out and contestly debated repeatedly here over the course of the last 5-years. That of course would and could not be true.
So again I'll apologize but ask that you keep to singular thread creation. Thanks

As far as personal interest links again, our main concern was links to competing forums and commercial sites. You say yours isn't the case and I'll take your word for it. But once you let one member do it then EVERYONE starts dropping links to this and that site, that might have hardcore pron ;) (we try to be family friendly here) someone selling sunglasses or sneakers, or malware/virus laden in which we take the blame. Having everyone posting links just makes it hard for us moderator to know where our loyal users are being linked to and we simply cannot take the time (everyone on the moderator team are simply volunteers) to check each and every one of these links out- so it's best to JUST SAY NO.

No problem linking to a Volt/ELR related article, news piece or things of that nature that generates discussion just not to business/personal blogs/ads etc.
We take pride in having worked hard (both users and moderators alike) over the past 5+ years turning gm-volt.com into THE definitive source of GM electrified product information and 3rd party owner/user support on the web. We simply wish to keep it that way. But without some rules there would be anarchy.

I hope you understand. But once one of our moderators reports a member ignoring his or her warning, something needs to be said. BTW we don't ever arbitrarily ban people here.(other than genuine trolls) and especially not actual Voltec owners- this site is for them! Usually if someone is ignoring our moderator warnings on a 3rd strike we would maybe give them a "week off" and they can decide through that week if they want to continue to be a participant here. Some never come back. Some come back in spades better than ever! Just ask elemental !! ;)

Perhaps in this case I should have used a little more couth and PM'd you instead.
Again, I was wrong and I'm sorry.

In the meantime, as you were...

WopOnTour
***

Thanks for taking the time for the reply - we must have been posting at the same exact moment - no problem and of course no apologizes necessary. I might mention the GM Volt forum has always been my favorite electric car hang-out long before I bought my first Voltec vehicle.

Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts!

Mike
 

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I live on the east coast of florida,and I took a day trip to tampa,fla 120 miles away
I own a 2015 volt premium,and I had a fully charged battery,which gives me 53ev miles.
I left home using battery until I got west of town then I went into hold mode all the way to tampa
when I got to tampa,i went back into ev mode until I was ready to come back home.
I left tampa in ev mode with around 40ev miles, and when I got thru Kissimmee,i had around 10 evmiles left.
between Kissimmee and saint cloud on hwy #192 I went into mountain mode,where I stayed until I was about 5 miles east of holopaw,fla
I had 27ev miles and I went the rest of the way home on battery.
I found out I used 4/10 gas getting 27 miles ev charge
when I fueled up I used 4 gallons gas total and that was including a few short trips from the past few month's before I went to tampa.
even though I use 93 octane gas,it still only cost me $8.00 to fill my gas tank.
not too shabby if you ask me
it is mountain mode for me when on a trip and I get low on ev miles,best bang for my buck
 

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Idleup, if you use like myself the "what's new" button, than it is like double posting, because your article appears 2 times. I think this is what WOT is referring to. You posted the thread on two different sub-forums but in the end, due to this button, it looks like a double posting. This is my opinion only.
Holy ****... I didn't even notice that button there once! Seriously, I just saw it after you wrote this.
I find this website/forum has far to many subforms in it. It's a god damn mess. =)
That button is now my new link to the site.
 

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I have a rule to keep no less than 5 miles on my battery so in the unlikely event I lose my engine, I can drive my Volt or ELR to a safe location rather than be stuck on the side of a dark dangerous highway with my family in the car. Other advantages are; you can retain your lights and heat if needed. Its better to be safe than sorry!
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Maybe it is my ADD but I can't get past the above statement. This is the most asinine statement I have seen in a long time. I mean seriously? You sound like my great, great, great grandfather explaining why he would rather have a horse than an automobile. Or my great, great grandfather explaining why you should have crank windows and manual locks vs. electric. I mean come on.
 

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Just to set the record straight, I never doubled posted my article - since the story was for ELR's and Volts, I posted it once on the Volt discussion forum and once on the ELR discussion forum. The reason is because its unlikely that a ELR user would visit the Volt forum and vice versa.

Multiple posting is generally placed by someone selling something - I'm not selling anything, I'm just another Volt owner like you guys who enjoys his car and enjoys learning and sharing information with other owners!

Thanks
I guess double posting means different things to different people. The article appears twice at the top of this thread because you started two threads and both already had comments when I saw them, so I merged them.

As you and WopOnTour have been discussing, the double posting that we were objecting to was the posting of two threads in two parts of the forum with the same content - something we've discussed before that is still against forum rules in this and most other forums I've seen.
 
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