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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok, not a fight, but I've got a few more days before I have to return my 2013 Volt and I'll have my new Ford Fusion Energi as of tomorrow afternoon. I'm thinking about recording some comparisons such as:
  • Acceleration in various modes using a "dyno" app on my smartphone
  • Head to head 0-60
  • Normal driving in EV-Auto for a common drives, FFE tails the Volt or vice-versa to the store and back or something - does the FFE need to use the ICE to keep up

Any others you guys/gals would like to see?

PS: See this thread for discussion of my test drive and initial "review" of the FFE: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread...Fusion-Energi-yesterday&p=1776705#post1776705
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Buzzkill! ;)

I just kidding. Since my better (and more sensible) half would be the pilot of one of the cars, I have a feeling any of the dangerous tests would get nixed pretty fast!
 

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I read the Fusion Energi User Manual and other literature about the Fusion Energi, and I know it cannot beat the Chevy Volt under electric power alone. The Fusion need to use its gas engine to accelerate faster (it is a parallel hybrid) and to drive at highway speeds. If you drove slowly and carefully, you can drive without turning on the engine (or select EV Now).

I did a test drive on the Fusion Hybrid and my wife loves it, but I am not convinced that it is better than the Chevy Volt.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
As I said, my review is in the other thread. Better is a subjective term that means different things to different people.

Volt Pros:
The Volt is a more efficient car for the vast majority of driving situations, including about double the AER
The Volt has a LOT more cargo room and a big hatchback opening.

FFE Pros:
The FFE has a LOT more cabin room especially for the back seat passengers.
The FFE has more creature comforts (Like power seats with memory, heated steering wheel option, etc...)

Cost: Depends on where you live and when you shop but in my case, the FFE was a lot cheaper to lease because Ford is offering better incentives and my local dealer better discounts than any of the Chevy dealers I talked to.

We've loved our Volt and would get another except that the FFE is cheaper to lease, not that much more to fuel and adds the power memory seats we wanted (my wife is a lot shorter than me) and rear legroom (my kids are growing). We don't care about the reduced trunk space because we have a large CUV when we need to get something large.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
haha, yeah, feels kinda like that.

You know, I love the car, but the way the Chevy dealers here in DFW all seem to either not care about selling the Volt, ignoring my questions for exact numbers or even just not getting back to me, I will not miss Chevrolet. Just like 2 years ago, the only salespeople that seemed at all interested in dealing with me we in other states. When I hand this car over to Classic Chevy, I'll have no love loss for them not getting my repeat business because I practically handed them a sale and only Ford stepped up and worked with me.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for that, I guess there's not much for me to do that others haven't already :)

I agree with your comparison and I really had to think hard about it before deciding to go with the FFE. Like I said in my other thread, I just want a Voltec Fusion competitor. I hope that the 2016 refresh brings something like that so that when my FFE lease ends I can go to it, but for now the FFE is a better fit for my family. (especially at the price point I got)
 

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A
The Volt is a more efficient car for the vast majority of driving situations, including about double the AER
Agreed but the difference wasn't nearly as great as I thought it would be; an interesting surprise. As the saying goes, YMMV! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ever since I posted my original negative review of the FFE's acceleration (which ended up being because of a completely depleted battery with, apparently, no reserve power at all) I've been keenly aware of my driving habits and how fast I go from 0-60 in the real world.

As I stated in the other thread, I have to perform a right hand turn and get to 60 MPH from a dead stop fairly rapidly every time I leave my neighborhood. For the past couple of days, I've been using an iPhone app that uses the accelerometer and GPS to give you pretty accurate acceleration stats and what I'm seeing is, even if I floor it in my 2012 Acadia, I rarely am up to 60 in under 13 seconds; and when I do that it's much faster (and uncomfortable for my passengers) than I would usually do so. (I've yet to try the app in the Volt, will probably do so today though)

Based on the 2nd test drive, I have to wonder how often that ICE really will kick on for me in EV-Auto mode (provided I'm within the ~21 mile AER). I really am curious to see what kind of real world MPG I'll get, I'm sure it won't be the 156 we have on the Volt, but I've heard stories of people getting over 100.
 

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Ever since I posted my original negative review of the FFE's acceleration (which ended up being because of a completely depleted battery with, apparently, no reserve power at all) I've been keenly aware of my driving habits and how fast I go from 0-60 in the real world.

As I stated in the other thread, I have to perform a right hand turn and get to 60 MPH from a dead stop fairly rapidly every time I leave my neighborhood. For the past couple of days, I've been using an iPhone app that uses the accelerometer and GPS to give you pretty accurate acceleration stats and what I'm seeing is, even if I floor it in my 2012 Acadia, I rarely am up to 60 in under 13 seconds; and when I do that it's much faster (and uncomfortable for my passengers) than I would usually do so. (I've yet to try the app in the Volt, will probably do so today though)

Based on the 2nd test drive, I have to wonder how often that ICE really will kick on for me in EV-Auto mode (provided I'm within the ~21 mile AER). I really am curious to see what kind of real world MPG I'll get, I'm sure it won't be the 156 we have on the Volt, but I've heard stories of people getting over 100.
I have a C-Max Energi....different car, but same powertrain as the FFE. If you floor it in EV Auto mode, the ICE will kick on, and will run for a little while (depends on how long it takes for fluids to get up to running temperature) before shutting off. If you're in EV Now mode, you can manually switch on the ICE, as a message pops up in the dash telling you to press 'OK' if you want the ICE to assist in acceleration.

Assuming you only need the ICE assist for that one section each day, you'll probably burn less than a tenth of a gallon of gas for that spurt. In the winter, you maybe burn a little more due to it taking longer for the engine to come up to temperature.
 

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FFE

Eric, I share your enthusiasm and pain. Many, many things I liked about the FFE, especially for a family car. But that was also the problem. It simply would NOT hold our luggage. People? Yes, much better than the Volt. My kids loved the rear air vents and really wanted that. That tiny trunk just did it in. Otherwise, I would have probably gone with the FFE over the Volt even though I really wanted the Volt instead. You see. Personally, I wanted the Volt; however, the Fusion Energi was better for the family in every way except for the trunk. When my wife and I tried our "luggage test" that sealed the deal. We simply couldn't go on vacation with it nor could we go to the grocery store in it. We go to the grocery store every two weeks, so we have lots of groceries and the like. Ah, the tradeoffs in the real world. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I hear you on the trunk - I actually find the back seat passthrough quite humorous in it's uselessness since I don't ski! :D

EDIT: Best picture I could find on the internets to exemplify it's, um..., well... see for yourself:

 

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2 great cars, different yes, each a demonstration of what can be done with commitment and significant investment and good engineering. Sure either company could combine the best points of each, but that would create a car that fewer could afford or would buy.

the sad truth is that the public has not embraced the great driving/great gas mileage extended range electric sedan represented by these 2 cars. (yes and a few others) Gasoline was $4+ in 2007 and is <$3.50 now, (partly due to those of us who have adapted these technologies. ) and without a gas price spike (which I don't expect in the next few years), the vast majority of the car buying public has little interest.


I don't ever expect to see the Vequinox that I want to buy- just not enough demand to justify the investment...
 

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Discussion Starter #16

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I hear you on the trunk - I actually find the back seat passthrough quite humorous in it's uselessness since I don't ski! :D

EDIT: Best picture I could find on the internets to exemplify it's, um..., well... see for yourself:

I was interested in the Fusion Energi until I realized that factor. I have way to much junk to not have a trunk... (cue Elemental)...
 

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Eric, you said in your other thread that acceleration of the FFE was very anemic once the battery was drained, right? Do you have a feel for how fast this would happen for various driving scenarios? I think that would be a dealbreaker for me... I like that the Volt's performance is the same with a full or empty battery, so the car is great even on a roadtrip with no charging opportunities. But it sounds like you have another vehicle for longer trips, so this probably wouldn't be a factor for you. Congrats on the new car, it really is about getting one that is best suited for your personal needs, I don't get why some people get so caught up in fanboy-ism.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Eric, you said in your other thread that acceleration of the FFE was very anemic once the battery was drained, right? Do you have a feel for how fast this would happen for various driving scenarios? I think that would be a dealbreaker for me... I like that the Volt's performance is the same with a full or empty battery, so the car is great even on a roadtrip with no charging opportunities. But it sounds like you have another vehicle for longer trips, so this probably wouldn't be a factor for you. Congrats on the new car, it really is about getting one that is best suited for your personal needs, I don't get why some people get so caught up in fanboy-ism.
Based on conversations with other FFE owners, I believe this should never happen in the, "real world". The theory is that the car had sat in a lot, not plugged in, with 0 SOC for so long that even the reserve power window was gone (or so low that it wasn't enough to drive the electric motor). In this case, the the ICE is the only thing motivating the car, something it's not really designed to do on it's own.

In normal use, there should always be enough charge in the battery to move the electric motor with the ICE recharging it to keep it at that minimum (just like the Volt).
 

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and will run for a little while (depends on how long it takes for fluids to get up to running temperature) before shutting off.
The ICE warmup needs to reach a minimum of 128f before shutoff. I have a SGII reader and the ICE temp is usually within a few degrees of ambient. That means right now in the summer it's at 95-100f before running! LOL and sad face both at the same time..... Anyway, at those temps it only takes about 10-15sec to reach 128f so shutoff comes quickly most of the year.

In the winter when the battery is cooler, I'm able to floor it and stay in EV mode to 60+mph. Takes about 13-14 secs so about the same time as his Acadia measurement. 0-40mph is fairly quick but the rate starts to slow after that.

If eric's drive is longer than the ev range, he can play the EV Later game (aka hold mode) and see where activating it and for how long delivers the best FE.
 
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