GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,860 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Q: How do you tell if a politician is lying?

A: The lips are moving.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20121026/BLOG06/121029920/why-volts-built-on-mars-are-possible-in-an-election-year

Why Volts built on Mars are possible -- in an election year

I hear General Motors is planning to lay off thousands of workers in Detroit and move production of the Chevrolet Volt to Mars.
This is obviously more bad news for Detroit, which will then be left with nothing but three guys shivering around a burn barrel
Republican candidate Mitt Romney told some 12,000 people at an Ohio rally Thursday that Fiat-controlled Chrysler is considering moving all Jeep production from the United States to China. That would be a devastating blow to a state that — in between visits from presidential candidates — has built Jeeps since the 1940s.

1. Moving to China sounds pretty good to me at this point. Nothing makes communism more appealing than having to endure election year in a democracy. Also, you don't have to worry about Meat Loaf suddenly showing up in China.

2. It's completely false.

"Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China," Chrysler spokesman Gualberto Ranieri wrote.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,486 Posts
Their handlers don't read the details closely and then the politician speaking those written words look bad.
That's why I call politicians "actors" as they are not the source of their own thinking.

There's a radio-show host out of Austin (won't name) who says Volts are made in China.

Once they find EVs are cutting into oil production and delivery, they will say "millions of oil and gas jobs at risk due to electric vehicle adoption".

Are we in high school again? I've always hated drama - being a very technical person, I think "once you run out of things to do, you start thinking of things to say". Since politicians actually don't "do" anything, it's all about the acting...

The real Rush (the band) has a lyric in the song Grand Designs:
So much style without substance
So much stuff without style
It's hard to recognize the real thing
It comes along once in a while
Like a rare and precious metal beneath a ton of rock
It takes some time and trouble to separate from the stock
You sometimes have to listen to a lot of useless talk


I listen to both Rushes for entertainment. To get a real view on how to live life, the band's lyrics make far more sense. The other guy is entertaining in his viatrol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
211 Posts
Lying is a necessity for the Gop since they have nothing else to offer its citizens. Their whole premise is based on bs, lies and propaganda. Just look at Fox , Beck and Rush. Plus keep the base angry/hateful and keep them in fold. Oh well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,078 Posts
I honestly can say I haven't heard a single truthful fact come out of Romney's mouth in the past 6 months. Why would anyone vote for someone who will never tell the truth?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,663 Posts
I honestly can say I haven't heard a single truthful fact come out of Romney's mouth in the past 6 months. Why would anyone vote for someone who will never tell the truth?
You know there are two sides to this story, but I'll refrain from adding childish comments to what should be an automotive forum.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,154 Posts
I hear that GM is going to move all manufacturing globally back to <insert state I am in now>.

Is that the second side to the story? I don't agree that there are two sides to the story, and there usually aren't. A statement by a person can be factually tested on two criteria. First, did the person actually make the statement. Second, is the statement true.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,785 Posts
I hear that GM is going to move all manufacturing globally back to <insert state I am in now>.

Is that the second side to the story? I don't agree that there are two sides to the story, and there usually aren't. A statement by a person can be factually tested on two criteria. First, did the person actually make the statement. Second, is the statement true.
And third, did the person believe it at the time. Or care whether it was true.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,018 Posts
Moved to political forum
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,156 Posts
I liked the Meat Loaf jokes in the article. On the merits, the entire rally and Meat Loaf's appearance was something of a microcosm of the Romney campaign. There is a promising start, a good crowd, he works everyone one up with some not very accurate claims, and then the whole thing just sort of fizzles out at the end.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,303 Posts
If anybody truly believes one political party or the other (doesn't matter which -- pick one) has cornered the market on BS, half-truths, and outright lies.... then I think it's time for them to ponder their own ability to think critically.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,154 Posts
If anybody truly believes one political party or the other (doesn't matter which -- pick one) has cornered the market on BS, half-truths, and outright lies.... then I think it's time for them to ponder their own ability to think critically.
That's an all too often response to a false statement. It's the equivalent of "everyone else is doing it". It's much better to evaluate the truthfulness of an assertion on its own merits, and not through the lense of political philosophy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,728 Posts
Why Volts built on Mars are possible -- in an election year

By Neil Bunkley -- Automotive News

I hear General Motors is planning to lay off thousands of workers in Detroit and move production of the Chevrolet Volt to Mars.

This is obviously more bad news for Detroit, which will then be left with nothing but three guys shivering around a burn barrel and recently was named the Most Dangerous City in America to Be a Third Base Coach in the World Series.

Sure, a car factory on Mars, where the lack of oxygen means healthcare costs are sky-high, makes no sense, but who cares? It's almost Election Day. Now is not the time to start letting facts and accuracy get in the way of a good campaign rally.

Republican candidate Mitt Romney told some 12,000 people at an Ohio rally Thursday that Fiat-controlled Chrysler is considering moving all Jeep production from the United States to China. That would be a devastating blow to a state that — in between visits from presidential candidates — has built Jeeps since the 1940s.

"I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state, Jeep — now owned by the Italians — is thinking of moving all production to China," Romney said in Defiance, Ohio. "I will fight for every good job in America. I'm going to fight to make sure trade is fair, and if it's fair America will win."

Romney's statement, which was immediately followed by an endorsement from Meat Loaf, begs two responses:

1. Moving to China sounds pretty good to me at this point. Nothing makes communism more appealing than having to endure election year in a democracy. Also, you don't have to worry about Meat Loaf suddenly showing up in China.

2. It's completely false.

Chrysler and "the Italians" are indeed thinking of building Jeeps in China. But only to sell in China and perhaps other developing countries in that part of the world.

Chinese-made Jeeps would not be sold in the United States. And no American jobs would be displaced as a result. Building vehicles in the region of the world where they are sold is common practice in today's global auto industry, and very few vehicles are imported into China from elsewhere.

Chrysler wants to build Jeeps in China, the world's largest auto market, in order to grow its sales in China. That would increase Chrysler's profits, which would flow back to its headquarters in the United States, where it could theoretically hire more workers and pay them more money.

The company confirmed this in a statement it released BEFORE Romney spoke Thursday, after numerous conservative blogs and news outlets began misinterpreting a story by Bloomberg News.

"Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China," Chrysler spokesman Gualberto Ranieri wrote. "It's simply reviewing the opportunities to return Jeep output to China for the world's largest auto market. U.S. Jeep assembly lines will continue to stay in operation."

Much of the credit/blame for spreading the misinformation that ultimately reached Romney goes to the Washington Examiner, which wrote that Jeep "is considering giving up on the United States and shifting production to China."

The Examiner asserted that the move "would crash the economy in towns like Toledo, Ohio, where Jeeps are made and supplied, and rob the community of the economic security they thought Obama's auto bailout assured them."

For Ohioans being bombarded by political ads around the clock, there are plenty of reasons to be scared the closer we get to Election Day. Losing Jeep to China is not one of them.

You can reach Nick Bunkley at [email protected]

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20121026/BLOG06/121029920#ixzz2AfPuhYnz
(may require AN subscription)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,860 Posts
Discussion Starter #14

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,542 Posts
Or in other words, let's focus on specific lies and distortions by a specific person/campaign, not a blanket statement or logically falkacy like "All Politicians lie, so I can assume anything they say is a lie."

More specifically still, focus on those falsehoods and one-eighties having to do with alternative transportation and energy, and energy "independence" (I put the word in quotes because I believe in a global economy there really is no such thing, a better replacement phrase is *energy competitiveness*.

This thread has inspired me to add the following to my sig (only through Election Day:)):

"How can an idea whose time has come, 4 years later be an idea whose time has NOT come??" Me, comparing Romney 2007 on EVs vs Romney 2011
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,520 Posts
More specifically still, focus on those falsehoods and one-eighties having to do with alternative transportation and energy, and energy "independence" (I put the word in quotes because I believe in a global economy there really is no such thing, a better replacement phrase is *energy competitiveness*.
I think independence better summarizes the economic and political impact. (If the USA could meet its energy needs with domestic production there'd be a very different political approach).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,728 Posts
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top