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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Seems like many here and elsewhere are trying to make a forced comparison between a Bolt and the Model 3. These cars have almost nothing in common except a 200 mile+ battery. No one compares CUV's to sedan's based on the starting criteria that both have a similar sized gas tank.

Shouldn't the comparison be between the Volt (a sedan) and the Model 3 (a sedan), both in a similar price range?

Both are being sold as long distance-capable cars. Both are electric.


  • The Volt has a very useful hatch, the Model 3 has a small frunk.
  • The Volt has two screens and knobs and buttons for commonly used controls, The M3 has a large off-center mounted touch screen, nothing else.
  • The Volt is available now, the Model 3 is several years away.
  • The Volt is not range limited, the Model 3 may be limited based on supercharger locations and driving patterns.
  • The Volt is less expensive.
  • The Volt wears a Chevy badge, the Model 3 has a Tesla badge with more status.
  • The Volt is a 4+1 seater, the Model 3 is a 5 seater.
  • The Volt is a few seconds slower than the Model 3.
 

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To me the choice is between a Volt, and either a Bolt or a Model 3.

At $35K, I still prefer the Volt as it has zero limitations on long trips. For me, $35K is still too much to pay for a vehicle with EV limitations.

I will be patient and wait for EV prices to drop, or until used Bolts and Model 3's become available. I realize that may be a few years for the Model 3, but may be only a couple years for the Bolt.

Until that time, I am more than happy driving on electricity nearly 90% of the time, but without any limitations or alterations of lifestyle.
 

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i agree that a true $35K Model 3 is a few years away.

Tesla will fill the high end orders first as they did with the Model S. Those planning to order a true $35k, low base model with no upgrades will be at the end of the line. With over 200,000 reservations, I estimate the low end orders won't be filled until late 2018, possibly 2019.

Meanwhile the Gen II Volt is available now, at $35K, and used Gen I Volts are available for under $15K.
 

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Lol...Why no mention of the acceleration?
 

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I agree that the Volt/Model 3 comparison is entirely relevant. They both have a similar profile that being of a compact sedan while the Bolt is more a CUV-class kind of vehicle.

I predict the Model 3's presence will ramp up debate over the Volt's EREV concept vs. battery only. It's going to take place more on a mainstream level than the LEAF vs. Volt debate which has been fought mainly among greenies and early adopters. It'll be interesting to see how GM approaches the discussion without pulling the carpet out from underneath the Bolt.
 

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I agree that the better comparison is between the Volt and the Model 3. in fact, I'm struggling to understand what space the Bolt fits into, outside of a niche product -- like Smart cars, for example.

The Volt/Model 3 comparison provides a lot of pros and cons for each vehicle which is worth considering. In other words, you can make a good argument for either in comparison to the other. Now that I've had some time to reflect on what the Model 3 is, I find myself fairly impressed with the vehicle. Of course there are a lot of details to confirm such as storage space, cabin space, etc, but one can imagine that the Model 3 will fare better for guests in the back, where the Volt has more versatile cargo options despite the Model 3's front storage bin. I can go on with other comparisons, but you get the idea. For every advantage one car has, it should be possible to weigh an equally desirable counter point.

Based on this, I will be very interested when it comes down to road tests. Put simply, which car is the more fun to drive? I wonder if we will be considering this in light of today's Volt, or Gen 3 by the time the Model 3 actually comes out.
 

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In regards to the original post, I would say the main reason not to consider the two competitors is: No matter how hard you try, the Volt will always be a fossil-fuel powered vehicle. If your primary goal is completely eliminating reliance on fossil fuels, the two vehicles don't compare at all.

Lol...Why no mention of the acceleration?
Because neither is a performance car? Maybe you'd rather compare the P90 to the C7? Personally, if all-electric, low-entry point price, and performance were all key requirements, I'd rather wait for a $40,000 Lancer EVo. After all, there is more to performance than racing from stoplights.

I agree that the better comparison is between the Volt and the M3. in fact, I'm struggling to understand what space the Bolt fits into, outside of a niche product -- like Smart cars, for example.
Considering your profile says that you are from Martinez, I'm really surprised by that point of view. You have access to one of the most robust CSS charging networks currently available (far more extensive than the most densely concentrated Tesla Superchargers). As far as you should be concerned, the Bolt is every bit as viable as the Model S/3 in terms of all-electric transport.
 

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There really aren't that many 200 mile EVs to compare to, so you get the station wagon to Citroen comparison going on.

But if the categorization is compact 4 door sedan then the nearest would be the Volt. Biggest difference is one is obtainable and the other isn't. I would like to have both of these cars eventually or maybe the Bolt instead of the Model 3. Oh wait, I just considered/compared the Bolt to the Model 3!
 

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Seems like many here and elsewhere are trying to make a forced comparison between a Bolt and the Model 3. These cars have almost nothing in common except a 200 mile+ battery. No one compares CUV's to sedan's based on the starting criteria that both have a similar sized gas tank.

Shouldn't the comparison be between the Volt (a sedan) and the Model 3 (a sedan), both in a similar price range?

Both are being sold as long distance-capable cars. Both are electric.


  • The Volt has a very useful hatch, the Model 3 has a small frunk.
  • The Volt has two screens and knobs and buttons for commonly used controls, The Model 3 has a large off-center mounted touch screen, nothing else.
  • The Volt is available now, the Model 3 is several years away.
  • The Volt is not range limited, the Model 3 be limited based on supercharger locations and driving patterns.
  • The Volt is less expensive.
  • The Volt wears a Chevy badge, the Model 3 has a Tesla badge with more status.
  • The Volt is a 4+1 seater, the Model 3 is a 5 seater.
I kind of agree and disagree at the same time.

First (for the disagree) I think comparing the Bolt and Model 3 is very legit, because they are 2 different prominent-in-the-field companies' answers to the same question: "What is your vision for a pure electric vehicle that will sell for around the average transaction price for any new car?" While I think both "answers" are legitimate, the Bolt vs. M3 strikes me as the answers of a B student (Bolt) vs. a star-pupil A+ (Model 3) student. Public reaction with the over 200K deposits so far clearly agrees. THIS IS ALL ASSUMING they both deliver on the promises each has made.

But where I agree is in that the Volt will remain the closest credible alternative to the Model 3. Even if it's styled as a sort of unremarkable compact car, it at least doesn't look like a cousin to the Chevy Spark, as does the Bolt. So in some ways the Volt can be argued to have some sex-appeal, as does the M3, whereas the Bolt (while nicely done for that sort of Fit-type vehicle) simply does not. The Volt also represents GM's legitimate solution to having both usable EV capability and long-range travel capability, and you did a good job of outlining the pros and cons. One major pro that you neglected to mention is that the Model 3 has all the benefits of being pure-electric, which include simpler maintenance, possibly higher reliability, and it will always have zero emissions from the car itself. For many buyers interested in going green, this is a major draw. I'm not saying they're right, but GM has been struggling all along to get people to understand why their unique PIH solution makes so much sense.

All that said, I think GM has two paths to turn things around (as they are already looking like the big loser in the court of public opinion), but it's not clear GM has any desire to follow either one.

IMO, both solutions would probably need to be marketed from either Buick or Cadillac.

First would be to take their Bolt hardware and know-how and create a car that competes more directly with the Model 3. Such a sedan would have very attractive styling, a more state-of-the-art feature set than the Bolt, and be much better trimmed, with an average transaction price of around $45K. The problem with this approach is that they'd also have to have some answer to the Supercharger network, which would require a complete reversal on their stance so far. Otherwise, that product would be kind of stillborn, as I believe the Bolt will be.

Second would be to do a car very much like the first solution but with a Voltec on steroids approach instead of pure EV. Probably a 24-30 KWH pack for 75 miles EV range or higher, use the better-than-Volt Voltec componentry already found in the new Malibu hybrid, and have performance that can basically match the base Model 3 (even the 2016 ELR is almost there with its old Voltec and now-smallish 17 KWH pack, so it can certainly be done.)

I believe GM should do the second one, because they're already quite good at it, it wouldn't be a moonshot, it would be a unique product that leverages their strengths, and it has real advantages over any pure EV, even one that can be Supercharged (still not nearly as fast, convenient, or ubiquitous as gasoline.)

One more thing, I think some folks on the forum are grasping at straws when they talk about Tesla filling orders first for high-option cars. First of all, we don't know that will be the case, and secondly Musk himself said he's projecting the average transaction price of the M3 to be $42K, hardly the night and day difference between the base model's 35K and what most often leaves the factory (kind of like the Volt, no?)
 

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.....the Model 3 has.....
.....The M3 has.....
.....the M3 is.....
.....the M3 has.....
.....the M3 is.....
Let's be clear here. The Model 3 isn't, and therefore hasn't. Comparing a Model 3 to anything is as useful as discussing the nuances of a lie. IF they produce it, the car you saw won't be the car you get. The price you saw will not be the price you pay.

We went through this with the Bolt concept. Why anyone would think the Model 3 is any different is a matter of wishful thinking at best.
 

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I predict the Model 3's presence will ramp up debate over the Volt's EREV concept vs. battery only.
Agreed.....

The EREV vs BEV argument was a clear winner for the EREV when EV's got less than 100 miles range, or cost $100K.

With the model 3 and Volt getting over 200 miles, and in the same price range as a Volt, the argument will heat up...
 

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Why not adapt the Voltec drive train to the Malibu or Impala or even something in the Buick lineup? I would buy either one of those before the model 3.
 

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anyone else think the front of the M3, fugly.that big flat panel just screams,,shape me now.
Boy I'll say. It looks like they weren't finished in the clay shop and just said "that will have to do!" lol UGLY!
Seen this posted on the Volt FB forums and laughed
duck lips!

.LB

 

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Elon has been on Twitter today.

The Model 3 steering/dash you saw was not the shipping version: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/716730641585340416
The Model 3 front end is getting redesigned: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/716729841362407424
The Model 3 will not be a hatchback: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/716731407310196736

And, in my opinion, the Bolt is not a CUV - it's a Honda Fit sized hatchback on mini-minivan if you prefer.

I was really hoping for a hatchback Model 3. :-(
 

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Yes, sort of. It inherits from the X sans the small 'grille' piece (which X inherits in part from the S), and a bit from the Roadster.



Tesla doesn't stray far from previous models in their designs.
Now this is the one Tesla needs to re-release...:)
 
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