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Discussion Starter #1
Lots of noises these days about Volt adopting a new configuration, but retaining the name. For those of you waiting for a CUV with a Voltec drivetrain and name, I offer the Faraday Future profile as an excellent place to begin an new design. Some responders to the FF article thought it ugly, or just a big ol' station wagon, but hey, how do you make a rectangular utility box reasonably aerodynamic so that its range isn't ridiculously short at freeway speeds? The FF looks like a good compromise. It's definitely sleeker than the Tesla Model X, IMHO. I have altered the attached photo to eliminate some of the superfluous black accents. Shrink the size 10%, add the Volt name and voila, a Gen 3 Volt.
We'll just have to wait a year or two or three to see what G.M. And Chevy come up with, but it better be good, in light of impending competition.
 

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I'm hoping that Chevrolet doesn't blow a good thing and improves both the electric and fuel mileage on the next iteration. 100 miles electric and 50mpg with the same size vehicle would be great.
 

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I like the look. Way better than a Model X, which I think is ugly.

As for CUVs in general, they are all just modern day incantations of station wagons. We needed lots of station wagons then, we need lot of them now as well. You just can't call them station wagons anymore because that doesn't sell.
 

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I'm hoping that Chevrolet doesn't blow a good thing and improves both the electric and fuel mileage on the next iteration. 100 miles electric and 50mpg with the same size vehicle would be great.
If they are going to include an engine, I don't see EV range getting much further than it is today. The production costs just don't justify the need.
 

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I like the look. Way better than a Model X, which I think is ugly.

As for CUVs in general, they are all just modern day incantations of station wagons. We needed lots of station wagons then, we need lot of them now as well. You just can't call them station wagons anymore because that doesn't sell.
The term CUV is lipstick on a pig, the really obnoxious term for station wagons that's started to appear lately is Shooting Brake, that's a Dior gown on a pig.
 

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I really don't see any difference between my '88 Tercel 4WD station wagon and an SUV. Small and narrow enough to fit in my short garage spaces but big enough to haul a bathtub, a wall oven or 2x4x8', anything that's 12' you can angle and hang out the passenger front window. What more do you need?


Tercel.jpg
 

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I really don't see any difference between my '88 Tercel 4WD station wagon and an SUV. Small and narrow enough to fit in my short garage spaces but big enough to haul a bathtub, a wall oven or 2x4x8', anything that's 12' you can angle and hang out the passenger front window. What more do you need?


View attachment 154961
Looks like a new Toyota CUV to me :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Aerodynamics is a science which may lead to strikingly similar configurations when the attempt is made to streamline a brick without compromising cargo capacity. Let's face it: truly original designs are rare. Gen 1 Volt was one. Quirky appearing to many. Gen 2 was a surrender to mass taste. A nice blending of the best of Honda and Hyundai. Nothing wrong with that. I like it, (but would ditch some black accents on that one, too)
 

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If they are going to include an engine, I don't see EV range getting much further than it is today. The production costs just don't justify the need.
With continued improvement in efficiencies of both systems I don't see a problem with my wish list or a substantial price increase.

Improved GEN3 battery range would bring more new-Volt owners to the party just like the GEN2 did for us. For the average metropolis commuter the GEN2 range just barely cuts the mustard for the ride in/out from suburbia.
 

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If they are going to include an engine, I don't see EV range getting much further than it is today. The production costs just don't justify the need.
Even Gen 1's 38 miles covered something like 85% of the population's daily drive. "Need" gets vanishingly small after that, and if you REALLY don't want to use the ICE that badly.... well, the Leaf is right there.
 

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Improved GEN3 battery range would bring more new-Volt owners to the party just like the GEN2 did for us. For the average metropolis commuter the GEN2 range just barely cuts the mustard for the ride in/out from suburbia.
But it DOES CUT THE MUSTARD. That's the point. For when it doesn't, there's a gas engine waiting for you.
 

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Even Gen 1's 38 miles covered something like 85% of the population's daily drive. "Need" gets vanishingly small after that, and if you REALLY don't want to use the ICE that badly.... well, the Leaf is right there.
Exactly. More EV range just means you are lugging around a 1000 lbs boat anchor all the time (thus reducing your range). And your car costs an extra 5K for something you use on your 2 vacation trips each year. You could fly first class for that instead of buying the engine.
 

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Exactly. More EV range just means you are lugging around a 1000 lbs boat anchor all the time (thus reducing your range). And your car costs an extra 5K for something you use on your 2 vacation trips each year. You could fly first class for that instead of buying the engine.
The 60KW Bolt battery weighs 900lbs, so even if you were to put a full Bolt battery into a Volt, which I would love, it would only add 500lbs. Putting 1/2 a Bolt battery into the Volt would hardly change the weight at all. Voltstats shows that Gen2 Volts average 75% EV usage, personally I'm only getting 55%. Doubling the Volts range would push that average into the 90s. I can't make a round trip into Boston without recharging, doubling the range would make that trip 100% electric without requiring destination charging, which is hardly available. I'm all for making longer range an option, I'd gladly pay an extra $5K for a 100 mile battery but for people who never go farther than the grocery store the base model could stay the same.
 

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The 60KW Bolt battery weighs 900lbs, so even if you were to put a full Bolt battery into a Volt, which I would love, it would only add 500lbs. Putting 1/2 a Bolt battery into the Volt would hardly change the weight at all. Voltstats shows that Gen2 Volts average 75% EV usage, personally I'm only getting 55%. Doubling the Volts range would push that average into the 90s. I can't make a round trip into Boston without recharging, doubling the range would make that trip 100% electric without requiring destination charging, which is hardly available. I'm all for making longer range an option, I'd gladly pay an extra $5K for a 100 mile battery but for people who never go farther than the grocery store the base model could stay the same.
The boat anchor is the engine, not the battery.

What you need is a Leaf. If you want full battery operation, buy a pure EV. The Volt is like putting your toe in the water before you dive in and buy a full EV. You now want to put your ankles in before you dive in. There is no way that manufacturers can support the production of cars for each type of person (e.g. one needs his toe wet before diving in, the next his ankles, another wades in up to his waist before diving in, etc.). Just dive in.
 

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The Volt is like putting your toe in the water before you dive in and buy a full EV.

Yes, and no. It's definitely a great "starter EV" that eliminates range anxiety or recharging issues on long road trips. But for a one car family, it can be the only car.

For me, having my Volt and my Bolt (Leaf? no way), is the ideal combo for our 2 car family.
 

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Yes, and no. It's definitely a great "starter EV" that eliminates range anxiety or recharging issues on long road trips. But for a one car family, it can be the only car.

For me, having my Volt and my Bolt (Leaf? no way), is the ideal combo for our 2 car family.
Yes. And that's why you don't need any more range on the Volt.

I'm a one car (Volt) family at the moment, but at some point I'm going to just have to dive in.

I'm at 80% EV, but I see the psychology working on me every time I use any gas. Sure I'd love more range. But you reach an inflection point where more EV range makes no sense with an engine in there. It truly becomes a boat anchor to allay range anxiety that increasingly doesn't exist as the range increases. I'm not saying that 53 miles is that point, but it does exist, and then the car simply becomes too expensive, and appeals to such a small demographic that no manufacturer will bother to make it.

If you offered a car with 300 miles of EV range, and an ICE, most people would be 99% EV. And the biggest job for the engine would be to run in maintenance mode.
 

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I'm at 80% EV, but I see the psychology working on me every time I use any gas. Sure I'd love more range. But you reach an inflection point where more EV range makes no sense with an engine in there.
Yup. I install the ERDTT defeat in the winter so my gas engine does not run for the 5-10 minute trip to the store in sub-zero temps. My garage is heated, the car fully charged. Having the engine come on just because the outside temps are below 15°F kind of bothered me. My cabin is warm, I have plenty of battery for resistance heating, no need for the gas engine.

But for a longer trip? Sure. Or a trip beyond the battery range? Awesome. If every car were an EREV like the Volt, more would see the EV side of things as a really nice to have option and the exposure would likely lead to more sales.

The closest you see today are start/stop engines, Yuck.
 

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I just drove a Chevy Malibu rental car in FL that had the Start/Stop technology. I quickly learned to slam the drive selector into Low to defeat the Start/Stop from shutting off the ICE at every stop sign and traffic signal. I managed 25 MPG overall with mostly local driving. The problem with using Start/Stop is that in a typical vehicle the 12V battery can't run the lights, accessories and the HVAC fan for more than about 30 seconds before the voltage drops and the ICE needs to restart. If more manufacturers switch to having 48V electrical systems, used now in some of the latest light hybrid systems, for conventional ICE vehicles then Start/Stop may be practical.
 

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The closest you see today are start/stop engines, Yuck.
Start/stop systems are the worst. Even in MBs I feel like I'm driving a golf cart. I also get the feeling that if I need to take off in a hurry, that the engagement could fail/stutter putting me in a compromised situation.
 

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The boat anchor is the engine, not the battery.

What you need is a Leaf. If you want full battery operation, buy a pure EV. The Volt is like putting your toe in the water before you dive in and buy a full EV. You now want to put your ankles in before you dive in. There is no way that manufacturers can support the production of cars for each type of person (e.g. one needs his toe wet before diving in, the next his ankles, another wades in up to his waist before diving in, etc.). Just dive in.
The technology doesn't exist yet to build a truly adequate BEV, the best you can get today is 310 miles in the Model 3 and that will cost you $60K, I'm waiting for a 400 mile BEV before I replace the Volt and I don't think those will be available for at least 5 years, maybe a little more. I take a long trip every weekend, usually around 300 miles, the longest this years was 450 which the Volt did without refueling. I just came back from Brattleboro Vt which is 100 miles away, the Volt got 66.6MPG on the gas on the way back, 66.4 miles on the battery with 3 miles to spare. The Volt is a compromise until solid state batteries are available,it's an electric for a lot, but not all, of local driving but you can still go anywhere without having to do any planning. For example we are planning to drive to Prince Edward Island in Canada at the end of the month, you couldn't do that in a Bolt at all, a Tesla will be able to do it in a year or so when they install some superchargers in New Brunswick but as of today the last supercharger is in Maine so it wouldn't be possible. The reason for 400, or better yet 450 miles, is that you really don't want to have to supercharge at all. It's slow and there will never be the kind of coverage that you get with gas stations. The reason that there are gas stations everywhere is because everybody needs to buy a tank of gas every week. But with EVs 98% of the charging will be done at home, the only use of fast chargers will be on very long trips so you will only find them on highways and they will be spread out. 450 miles is the most you can travel in a day except for superhighway trips. In the winter your range is cut nearly in half so a 400 mile car is still good for 200 which will comfortably cover all of your local driving needs, a 238 mile car like the Bolt is a 125 mile car in the Winter and that's not good enough, a round trip to Boston is over a 100 miles, that's too close for comfort in a Bolt in winter.
 
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