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Volt 2.0 Predictions

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9K views 30 replies 23 participants last post by  FutureVoltDude 
#1 ·
#5 ·
The Street talks about the E-Caddy copying the Volt but states GM may improve the engine and battery.

I don't think GM would risk the Cadilliac's reputation on drop in Chevy components. They learned their lesson years ago when they dropped Chevy engines into the Cadilliac many years back. The customers were irate!.

GM may source Enerdel for a longer range battery pack hung below the floor.

or perhaps

Shape Memory Alloys (SMA). The idea is for a prototype to use SMA tech to capture heat energy from engine exhaust gasses via an electric generator and transfer that energy to recharge batteries for hybrids or electric vehicles.
 
#6 · (Edited)
There really doesn't seem to be any hard information on a 2014 Volt. This article refers to Volt 2.0 development starting in 2010, but the only known (mules photographed, marketing underway) Voltec product for 2014 is the ELR. Sightings and GM released data on the Volt 2.0 are thin on the ground.

At the same time we learn the Spark may be priced around $32,000 which is getting close to the actual selling price of heavily discounted base Volts. From a buyers perspective going with the Volt is a no brainer. From GM's perspective, selling Sparks as Chevy's urban EV at good margins and the Voltec at good margins as the ELR and the Ampera seems prudent.

The obvious hole in the lineup is a roomier family car such as the Mpv5 at say 49,995 base based on the Delta 2 platform which may have a 1.4 litre turbo. A Voltec mule in a dd2 crossover might escape attention.
 
#8 ·
I would be surprised if, at least, the ELR doesn't receive some suspension upgrades, such as a rear multi-link suspension in place of the Delta platform's standard torsion beam system. Unlike others, I'm not expecting an upgraded charger, although a self-closing charge port door would be in the realm of possibility.

But I agree that the cited article is pretty reasonable. I think it's likely that GM will continue to make the car a technology halo car in some respects, with a parade of small gadget upgrades, such as a Qi wireless charging pad and improved phone integration.
 
#9 ·
I know I certainly wouldn't consider buying unless a higher-voltage charge option were available. But then, my horizon is 4+ years at least, so by then I'd like to see Envia batteries with at least 80mi Sport-mode range in production along with a more powerful motor (150kW, >400ftlb torque) and high voltage charging (6.6-7.2kW AC, rapid-charge DC) as well. I'd like to be able to do a day trip from Austin to San Antonio and back on all electric, and with Envia's tech that's entirely doable within current weight and size constraints, and for less battery cost.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I found some huge issues with the article.

The 2014 Volt will see a powertrain update but it will certainly be no Volt 2.0. This will be a Volt 1.5. The industry calls this an MCE (mid cycle enhancement).

GM has already confirmed that Volt 2.0 will ride on the new D2 platform. The first car on this new platform will be the next Chevy Cruze in late 2014 as a 2015 MY. According to GM the Volt 2.0 will be sometime shortly thereafter (my guess is mid 2015 as a 2016MY just in time for the next CAFE phase).

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2012/08/gms-next-gen-d2-platform-to-support-at-least-12-nameplates/
 
#11 ·
I predict that with how well the Volt's batteries are holding up compared to the competition :):cough:: Nissan) the engineers might open up the usable capacity a little more. Right now nearly 1/3 of the capacity is off-limits to protect battery health. Another 0.5-1.0 kWh of usability in the same pack should push the EPA range up and over 40 miles. Certainly GM has had time to do further testing on different chemistry as well. Ditching the relatively ancient iron-block 1.4 for any of the lighter and more efficient ICEs in GM's arsenal will surely push combined MPG to 40 or beyond.

The car this article is talking about here sounds like Volt 1.5 to me, and we should get a good sneak peak at what the ICE and general drivetrain changes and refinements will be when the ELR is shown at the Detroit auto show in January in six weeks.

The real Volt 2.0 will be D2 based, lighter, have better visibility, will probably break up the battery pack (like the Focus) so that the rear footwell can accommodate three passengers' feet in the gap, etc. It'll be an example of everything GM has learned about EREV since 2007, which I presume is substantial.

-Drew
 
#13 ·
Well, since every one is making predictions, here are mine:
  • Increased fuel economy - I suspect GM would really like to get a combined rating closer to the Prius. With a different engine and some other refinements, I suspect they can accomplish this. Even an extra 5 MPG would put it on par with most other hybrids. While I'll admit the extra 5 MPG doesn't make all that much difference to a Volt driver, it certainly sounds better to the general public.
  • unleaded gasoline - Another common complaint about the Volt that should be fixed with a different engine.
  • 40 miles or more EPA range - 40 was always their goal. I suspect they'll make whatever changes are needed to get that extra little bit. Anything with a 4 in front of it sounds better than 38 to the general public.

Now here are some things I'd like to see, and I suppose there is a slim chance, but I doubt it:
  • An option to use the Volt as a power generator directly from the HV system.
  • Quick-charge capability. I'm sure if they did it would be the "frankenplug" but that is better than nothing.
  • Power Sport Mode - or something to that affect. In this mode they would use power from the I.C.E. and the battery simultaneously to give the car some real performance. I'm sure this would require a beefier inverter.
  • An option for different "skins" for the dash display where people can customize how they want the speedometer and other instruments arranged, maybe even an option for a virtual analog speedo and tachometer.
  • Separate controls for the NAV, A/C, and Stereo system so I can use the A/C or NAV without having the stereo turned on.
 
#17 · (Edited)
A diesel isn't the best for a generator in a plug-in because of the usage pattern. It'd add to costs and be a problem for maintenance and emissions.

In addition, a large-battery, large-motor PHEV like the Volt has a lot of freedom because the motor's powerful enough that all the car needs is sufficient electrical input instead so it doesn't need a normal engine and that should allow for a high-efficiency gasoline generator, wiping out most or all of the usual diesel advantage. If GM commits and expects high volume from the Volt they'd be able to produce a dedicated generator.

Anyway, my predictions for the 1.5 basically agree with adric in that the emphasis will be replacing the engine with a newer, higher-displacement one for higher efficiency without the need for premium, and if they can do it they'll tweak to increase CD range to 40 miles, hopefully with efficiency gains through weight reduction. I don't expect anything too radical until they switch to the Delta-IIX platform for Volt 2.0.
 
#19 ·
GM announced the spark ev will have fast charge capabilities to charge its battery to %80 in 20 minutes. I would expect all other GM ev's after it to have the same technology. Does the volt or elr need it? No, but it would be really nice to have.
 
#22 ·
I won't say that people need to be prepared to be let down with the Volt 2.0, but that might be the case. The current Volt is occupying two different worlds where we don't know exactly what it is. Is it an economy car, luxury car, or pseudo-luxury car? We don't know. Along comes the ELR, which makes it easier for GM to choose. The Volt 2.0 will likely be the entry-level PHEV for GM so that it doesn't compete with the ELR and is more accessible to the average consumer.

I mostly agree with the article:

  • The ICE will be improved. Ford and Toyota have a very high bar for the ICE efficiency, so expect the Volt to best that. My guess is about 45 mpg combined.
  • The heating cooling system will be improved. I'm not sure how, but it should be significantly more efficient.
  • The rest of the changes will be minor and cosmetic, but the Volt 2.0 might actually have a fifth seat.

Where I disagree with the article is on the price. I actually expect to see the price drop by about $5,000, so the MSRP range should be $34,999 to $39,999. Other than tweaks, I expect the rest of the drivetrain to be the same,and I expect that many of the parts from the current Volt will be repurposed for the Volt 2.0. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the standard features on even the base model of the current Volt become options on the Volt 2.0. The inverter will stay the same, and I highly doubt that it will come with a DC fast charger hook up. If they do offer a 6.6 kW inverter, it will be an option that costs extra. All of those nice-to-haves that we would all love to see on the Volt 2.0 will likely be reserved for the ELR. I think that GM still does review these boards from time to time, and based on the fact that at least one poll overwhelmingly states that the price needs to be reduced for the next-generation Volt, I think GM will find ways to cut the production costs.
 
#23 ·
Yeah I expect a $5,000 price drop, not a 1K drop. But not necessarily initially. Eventually that $7500 subsidy will start to phase out, and GM needs to be prepared for price cuts to keep the price the same effective price after rebate.

Also, I don't see DC fast charging. Maybe a 6.6kW AC charger, but the issue has more to do with not needing that fast charging and GM would rather spend the battery "resources" on higher energy and power density (and reduced weight) rather than getting a full battery charge in 10 minutes. With the Volt it doesn't matter because you have gas to back you up. In a pure EV if you need to charge quick to get somewhere, you need to charge quickly.
 
#24 ·
my 0.0@ dollars

For the heck of it, here's my predictions:

- ergonomics, they will tweak some of the buttons and layouts to clean it up and make it easier to use, currently it looks a little cluttered
- aerodynamics, they will make some changes to try and reduce the CD a little more, its a cheap way to increase electric and gas mileage
- engine, I think they will try and switch to an aluminum block engine. I'm still surprised the current one is cast iron but they had to make compromise to get it out the door on time. They will try and get more efficiency out of this new engine, so expect direct injection, friction reducing materials (like on the pistons) and possibly atkinson cycle valve timing. All engines will be California smog compliant as this is the future and they know it.
- battery, the only change I think they will consider is getting that 5th seat back that is lost to the T cell, they might play with some of the charging/discharge and regen algorithms to squeeze a little more range out of the pack
- lower rolling resistance tires, they might switch brands if they find one with less resistance
- some other styling features will changes, wheels, seat materials, available outside color options


Overall they have spent so much money on the development of the car they will want to minimize how many extra $$ they put into it to get a refresh
 
#25 ·
I do NOT want any significant larger battery

Maybe 12 kWh usable but 10 is really just fine as is.

Here's why: the Volt charges fully while I sleep, and fully when I'm at work (2:30 pm in summer, 3:30 now, perhaps 4:30 in the dead of winter) all regular L1 outlets. Rinse and repeat.

The beauty in simplicity is that utilizing the existing infrastructure in perfect sync.

Get more out of the 10kHw if possible but please don't make it bigger/more expensive !
 
#26 ·
Volt 1.5 or 2.0 (or what ever it is called) should have new battery cells giving better energy density (kwh/kg). So the battery pack may get lighter (and smaller) and still be 16 kwh, or should the mass (and/or volume) of the battery pack stay the same, then we should see increased energy capacity, say 18 kwh. A battery with increased energy capacity should get the car past 40 miles EPA EV range (assuming the useable portion of the battery remains at 65%).
 
#28 ·
I will mention that I watched an interview with Bob Lutz a few weeks ago (Sorry, I'm not sure where the video is or I'd post a link) and he said he expected the next Volt to have 80 miles EV range, and he expected 10 years from now to have 400.

However, I'll be quite surprised if that actually happens. It would, however, be somewhat of a game changer. I say game changer because if it were still in the same price range, it would make cars like the Leaf seem like a joke. If you could drive a Volt 80 miles on a charge with the option of gas as a backup, then you have MORE functionality than a Leaf, Spark, Focus EV, etc. Not only can you drive further on EV range than the Leaf, but you can use the WHOLE 80 miles without leaving a buffer in case you run out of juice.

ANd for the person who says range is not important, I say it is. But it is only important from a perspective of perception. I deal with this all of the time in my Leaf, and sometimes with the Volt too. I tell people I can go 73 miles in the Leaf and they act shocked, like how could I even make it to work? That is because most people really have no idea how many miles they drive. When I ask somebody at work how far they think it is to the nearest mall, most people's answer ranges from 15 to 30 miles. In reality it is 7 miles. So obviously more range sounds good and is a selling point, even if most people don't really need it.

This is another thing I think should be addressed in some of the EV commercials. They should make some kind of challenge to have people see how many miles they drive in a day.
 
#30 ·
You can never be too rich, too thin, have too much RAM or too much battery range.

Let's get an Envia 40kW battery that weighs 100kg coupled to a turbo 3-cyl aluminum/magnesium motor that can efficiently pump out 100-150kW peak. And rear-wheel drive with a 'frunk' (with optional front motor for split AWD) for optimum driving dynamics.
 
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