[Morgan1]

18 Dave G:

And the plug in Prius has a significant factor less of the utility of a plug in VUE. Its not even Apples to Apples since most people prefer an SUV

 

[ThombDbhomb]

#16 nasaman
I knew we'd hear from you on the plug-in Vue! Any news on a 35 mi AER plug-in Vue?

 

[Ernie_V]

2010 will be known as the start of the end opec's hold on american motorists .if only GM can weather the next 2 to 3 years , it can regain its place in the industrtal world !

 

[Grizzly2]

This is really good news, because I've always believed that even despite current gas prices a smal/medium CUV like the Vue or GM's Theta platform have a real place in the market. Moreover, GM N.A. isn't going to prosper on Smart Car sized offerings.

 

[David12]

I would love to have this technology in an Aura, or in a Cruze with the 1.4L turbo. Heck, put it in the new Camaro.

 

[canehdian]

"I’ve gone to the electric car gatherings and owners of the electric Toyota RAV claim 120 miles/charge. Why such a difference with the Volt (40-50)"

Because the Volt is very conservative in its battery usage - it only uses half the battery capacity so its really 80-100 miles, as i suspect the RAV users are talking full to empty. The volt will have MUCH longer battery life (as in.. don't need to replace after 3-5 years) as the RAV's probably do.
Lutz made it seem like they're getting more than 40, so who knows what the final result will be?

This plugin vue is sounding pretty nice.. perhaps it will be my mom's next car!
(Mine of course, will be the volt )
(ok.. price and availability pending.)

 

[VancouverJon]

#16 nasaman

Are you sure it will use a V6 engine, like they have in the redline version of the Vue? Why not use the same Ecotec 4 cylinder engine that the current greenline uses? With those powerful electric motors, you won't need that much power.

 

[DDB]

Yep,

Nasaman @ 16, you caught our attention with this one:

"5) The plug-in VUE design will lend itself to an added-cost long-range EV-only version (approx 35 miles) by use of a 16kWh Li-Ion battery like that in the Volt (however, GM will neither confirm nor deny this for competitive reasons) "

I hope you're right, but where in the world are you getting this stuff...Lyle? Magic 8 ball?

Seriously though, the plug-in Vue is a step in the right direction but the 70 mpg figure is hard to swallow unless it's in completely opitimal conditions. Moreover, what scares the hell out of me is the complexity. Too much to go wrong. With a BEV it's simple, no nonsense vehicle and bound to get cheaper with batteries finally being mass produced. I'll hold off for the 40 + all electric ranges or better yet, a BEV regardless of the platform.

 

[ericguy320]

#25 VancouverJon

Probably the same reason they used a 6.0 instead of a 5.3 in the Tahoe hybrid's for more torque in the second mode (electric assist at highway speed) while in 4 cyl mode.

I know there is no active fuel management on the 3.6 but maby there will be, its on the push rod 3.9 in the impala. just a thought

 

[GM Volt Fan]

70 miles per gallon is quite awesome indeed.

That kind of mileage will make people forget about the clean diesels that might be coming from Europe pretty quick ... especially with the price of diesel fuel. People that want a small SUV/crossover are going to jump all over this car.

This looks like it'll be a big hit for Saturn ... and they need one badly. GM needs to advertise Saturns more. GOOD commercials ... that is, if GM can afford big advertising campaigns these days. This car might end up selling itself based on word of mouth anyway. Get those talking heads on the 24/7 news networks talking about it and this Saturn Vue (plug in and non plug in) could take off. Advertise in all the right places on the internet too. Let's hope the price for the plug in Vue is good. That's what I'm worried about. Hopefully, the Vue plug-in will be a good "bang for the buck" VALUE and it gets good reviews from JD Power, Consumer Reports, the auto magazines, etc. People will be looking for quality and reliability. Exterior/interior styling is huge too ... especially the exterior.

 

[RRRB]

So what is happening these days with the Volt?
Seems like we don't hear much about it any more.

 

[nasaman]

18 Dave G...... In my post #16 I'm referring to the existing non-plug-in Prius, and only as a reference point for miles per gallon comparison

20 ThombDbhomb..... Sorry, even if I knew the status of a 35 mile AER version I'd have to "put a contract out on you" if I told you what I knew

25 VancouverJon..... Yes the plug-in VUE will DEFINITELY have the CTS-style 3.6L V6 (such as in the VUE RedLine, as you correctly say)

26 Dave B.... You asked, "where are you getting this stuff?" I have been actively lobbying GM at decision-making levels about using the Volt-technology battery in an optional version. Anyone who wants to see a 2-pg dissertation I prepared & gave to Bob Lutz (and several others in GM management) are welcome to email me directly for it. Just email nasaman@earthlink.net for "VUE Proposal"

 

[Statik]

I like the Saturn Vue concept.

To me BIG+Electric (electric assist) is a no brainer...as long as the price is within 5-6K of it's 'non-hybrid' counterpart it should be a winner.

I assume it will probably have the same battery supply issues as the Volt and therefore a low rollout capacity? Just curious does anyone know the expected production for 2010,2011?

Other news:
Another good day for GM, $14.62 up .30

Side note:
Toyota finally outsold GM decisively...no virtual tie this time. 4,817,941 to 4,540,409

GM's number also includes a 35% increase in sales in China under the Wuling brand. Ironically GM counts full unit sales even though they only own 34% of the company...no clue how they get away with that. (Wuling/GM will sell north of 600,000 vehicles this year)

 

[Morgan1]

30 Nasaman:

I sent an email reply to you several weeks back regarding that proposal but I want to reiterate publicly.

Nasaman knows what he is talking about and everyone should look over his proposal if they get the chance. I also heard him call in on the radio and he is quite possibly the most accomplished person on this board with regard to this type of technology.

Once again Nasaman, thank you for your work in NASA. Hopefully we will all live long enough to see us go back there.

 

[jeffreykb]

#16

If your info is good, the Vue Plug In sounds "better" than the Volt. Fuel efficient if you plug in, towing capable, more room, and could be priced in the range of other SUVs. I can not wait for the actual vehicle...hopefully we are not disappointed.

Since GM gets more respect for their SUVs (except with the green crowd that has distaste for all SUVs), this is wise move. Wish GM had it now...the 4 plants that shutdown would have something to build if it is hit.

 

[Mark_H.]

I would loved to see this, I have the Saturn Vue Hybrid and it has been great. I think it would be better if they would use the 2.4L rather than the 3.6L or at least offer both. I think they are offering the 3.6L to compete with Toyota Highlander Hybrid, but really the Vue is way better since you can tow with it. Even my Vue will tow, try that with a Prius or Highlander and the transmision is toast. Really I am surpised that they use a CVT for their transmision they are not known for being great and robust. I can't wait to see these, they said they are going to be working on the Plug in version going long distances EV mode. As for the 100+MPG Prius it is under 30 MPH, where I live you would be run over going that fast, so 100+MPG is a bust, since where can you drive under 30 MPH.

 

[Grizzly2]

Statik #31

Don't forget that GM also voluntarily limited fleet sales to improve the resale value of their mid-size vehicles among others. IIRC that was on the order of about 200K units.

Basically 34% is a controlling interest provided the other 64% is widely held. I don't believe GM ever owned more than that same percentage of Isuzu's stock and Isuzu basically belonged to GM. The same is true of Ford WRT Mazda, Renault and Nissan.

 

[nasaman]

34 Mark H...... You said, "Really I am surprised that they use a CVT for their transmission..."

The 2 mode VUE & the Plug-in VUE based on it do NOT use a CVT; the 2 mode transmission incorporates conventional discrete gears and 2 electric motors. The GM claim of "continuously- variable" is admittedly confusing, but it's achieved by careful tailoring of the control algorithms.

 

[kent_beuchert]

I don't know where the 70 MPG figure comes from, but then I never
figured out where that 150MPG claim for the Volt came fom either. Both are way off. The Volt commuting ( the only data from which any estimate can be made) clearly indicates 275 MPG for that activity in the U.S. and also shows the Saturn Vue plug-in (assuming 10 miles electric and 30 MPG on fuel alone) getting 45MPG (not 70) while commuting. These MPG estimates for electric and hybrid plug-ins
that are being thrown around in the media are seemingly based on whim. Or very poor statistics (one journalist based his on what his neighbor got while using the car for a week!!!). We need non-commuting trip statistics to nail the issue down for all driving regimens. Don't pay attention to any of them at this point.

 

[nasaman]

37 kent beuchert..... I agree with your contention that mileage quotes for plug-ins need to be carefully explained. Unfortunately, I haven't found anything from GM that does it ---for the Volt or the plug-in VUE.

Having said that, I can tell you what I know about how the 70 mpg guesstimate probably arose..... GM has published a claim that the 2 mode VUE should deliver overall mileage 50% better than the non-hybrid VUE, and that the plug-in 2 mode should roughly double that. So using this sketchy information, the arithmetic might be something like.....

24mpg (Non-hybrid VUE) X 1.5 (2 mode) x 2 (plug-in) = 72mpg overall

But even GM doesn't know what the actual numbers will be yet.