[STEPHEN HASKILL]

My problem is I have decided to keep my 2013 VOLT and buy a BOLT when they come available in VA. Now I worry new energy policies might kick in and collapse the EV market especially the $7500 part. i have been wondering if I should take advantage of the good prices on the Gen 2 VOLT and buy now and collect the $7500 this year which should be a secure thing. Just sold my vineyard so could use the tax credit in 2016.
OR should I lease a 2017 VOLT. Is the Gen 2 really significantly better? Nice to have options but nicer to know which is best. Greatful for opinions.

 

[jsmay311]

I'm not so certain the tax credit will get axed. Republicans are supposed to be pro-business after all, and pulling the rug out from automakers after they've spent billions on R&D bringing EVs to market with the expectation that the tax credit would be there would be very unfair. (And it's not like they have to allocate any new money to keep it funded. It's already written into law.)

And if they did decide to get rid of it, I'd assume they'd phase it out rather than have an abrupt cutoff.

But who knows anymore. The business of predicting the future had a really bad year when it comes to politics.

 

[emartin00]

I'm not expecting them to end the tax credit. What's more likely is they will end CAFE and manufacturers will stop producing EVs

 

[Qinsp]

I'm not expecting them to end the tax credit. What's more likely is they will end CAFE and manufacturers will stop producing EVs

The CAFE standards are up for review in 2018 by law. The goal was to mandate drastic improvements in economy if technology will support it.

There have been great strides this century in fuel economy. A Monster Suburban now gets 23mpg highway with a 355HP V8 as do most full sized domestic pickups and large SUV's. The imports in general are not keeping up with the mileage.

CAFE is not ending. It will be adjusted to reality. We as a nation have made huge mistakes in the past in this field. You cannot force people to buy cars they do not want. You can however, improve the economy of what they DO want to buy.

Tesla Motors is a shining example of what can be done, but so far, they are just for the top demographic of buyers.

At some point EV technology will be as cheap if not cheaper than ICE technology, but with other operational benefits as well. If our nation wants to be the leader of this revolution, we need a Federal Government who will do what they can assist in domestic EV development. It's a technology race we should not lose.

 

[llninja]

Congress decide to do whatever they want at any time, since they make the laws. So I don't worry too much about thing that might or might not happen. If a tax credit is available by the time I'm buying my next EV, I'll happily collect. Until then, I'm on the sidelines.

 

[jsmay311]

CAFE is not ending. It will be adjusted to reality. We as a nation have made huge mistakes in the past in this field. You cannot force people to buy cars they do not want. You can however, improve the economy of what they DO want to buy.

CAFE does both. That's the whole idea: it's a "Corporate Average Fuel Economy". So it incentivizes automakers to improve the fuel economy of its inefficient vehicles, and it also incentivizes them to adjust vehicle prices to sell a higher volume of efficient vehicles. Both approaches improve their corporate average fuel economy.

Most automakers would prefer that the government increase gas taxes to achieve higher overall average fuel economy (like most other countries do, and like Bob Lutz has suggested: https://www.wired.com/2007/05/cafe_renews_cal/) so that market forces can achieve the goal of less oil consumption and less pollution rather than requiring each automaker to micromanage their sales portfolio. But taxes are unpopular, so you end up with regulation instead.

 

[Whatstreet]

My problem is I have decided to keep my 2013 VOLT and buy a BOLT when they come available in VA. Now I worry new energy policies might kick in and collapse the EV market especially the $7500 part. i have been wondering if I should take advantage of the good prices on the Gen 2 VOLT and buy now and collect the $7500 this year which should be a secure thing. Just sold my vineyard so could use the tax credit in 2016.
OR should I lease a 2017 VOLT. Is the Gen 2 really significantly better? Nice to have options but nicer to know which is best. Greatful for opinions.

Stay calm and carry on. Don't panic. I can see the reason for concern but not to change plans. You will see changes in policy coming if it happens and should have time to react if necessary.

 

[sinnombre]

I'm not so certain the tax credit will get axed. Republicans are supposed to be pro-business after all, and pulling the rug out from automakers after they've spent billions on R&D bringing EVs to market with the expectation that the tax credit would be there would be very unfair. (And it's not like they have to allocate any new money to keep it funded. It's already written into law.)

And if they did decide to get rid of it, I'd assume they'd phase it out rather than have an abrupt cutoff.

But who knows anymore. The business of predicting the future had a really bad year when it comes to politics.

The tax credits may not be as critical as one would think . They actually may keep the prices of EV's artificially higher because the manufacturers know your paying $32,000 for a $40,000 car. Also , how many potential buyers were deterred because they didn't have a need for a tax credit ?
How many complaints on this site about their two year old Volt dropping from $45,000 to $12,000 ?



Dollars to donuts , in 2011 GM would have came out with a price less than $40,000 if it weren't for the subsidies . Look how long it took for solar panels to drop in price . My only worry is if Trump manages to turn around the economy , many incentives from manufactures might disappear and interest rates might climb .

 

[16513]

If you're losing sleep over this, buy a new Bolt EV from one of this forum's California dealer sponsors and have it shipped before the end of the year. (supply permitting, of course) But really, the world is not going to end on inauguration day.

 

[DonC]

Wasn't the EV tax credit passed under George Bush? I believe GM was the big sponsor of the credit, but I'm not sure how it would feel if the credit program was ended prematurely. GM, like Tesla and Nissan, is running out of credits. In a couple of years those credits would be close to depleted. In this case the bigger losers would be those companies who haven't started selling BEVs. (I also have a hard time seeing Bob Corker, who spent so much capital luring Nissan to Tennessee, enthusiastically doing something so contrary to the interests of one of the state's bigger employers).

Any action on the federal level will likely lead to a reaction on the state level. Right now every ZEV credit is worth $3500. So a Bolt, which qualifies for 4 ZEV credits, nets about $14,000. If the federal government starts cutting back support for electrical vehicles, expect the CARB states to start increasing their mandates. This would likely increase the value of a ZEV credit since very few companies are in a position to benefit by selling more ZEV vehicles. Since GM is one of these companies, it would likely benefit.

Complicated calculus.

 

[Triarius]

CAFE is stupid legislation anyway. The fastest way to the future would be to tax oil at such a rate that gasoline costs $5 or $6 per gallon. This way, everyone pays equally for what they consume and the public gets to decide how to be most efficient, whether it be buying an EV, or switching to a smaller car, or carpooling, or trading their schooner for a ketch, or whatever other innovation society can devise. By dictating specific solutions to a problem the government stifles innovation.

 

[jsmay311]

Wasn't the EV tax credit passed under George Bush?

• It was passed by a Democratic House and Senate.
• It was bundled with the must-sign bailout/TARP bill and a tax cut bill.
• The bundled bill (Public Law 110-343) was signed by Bush on Oct 3, 2008.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Law_110-343#Energy_Improvement_and_Extension_Act_of_2008
• Later, the number of credits was greatly expanded (from 250,000 total credits to 200,000 per automaker) in 2009 by Dems/Obama as part of the stimulus bill.

Key takeaway: Bush and congressional Republicans almost certainly didn't support it and would not have signed it into law had it not been bundled by the Dems with TARP.

(On that last point, I wish they hadn't switched to a per-manufacturer approach. My guess is they were afraid Toyota and Honda might snatch up all of the credits if it had been a first-come, first-served system given how much they were dominating the hybrid market at the time.)

 

[DonC]

I'm not expecting them to end the tax credit. What's more likely is they will end CAFE and manufacturers will stop producing EVs

This isn't exclusively a GM issue, but I'm always surprised at how stupid GM can be in cases like this. I realize that business today is a quarter to quarter endeavor, but surely someone has the ability to see longer term. Millennials are the biggest demographic cohort in US history and their number one concern is climate change. Going after a program that targets climate change is merely going to whack off the majority of future voters and your future customers. No idea why it would go down this road. Seems very shortsighted.

Moreover, from a business perspective the EPA is not setting the agenda on emissions. That's being done by CARB and China, and to a lesser extent the EU. No point in fighting the EPA regulations when these other political entities are going to force you to meet the requirements anyway. You'd think it would be an opportunity to get ahead of the game. Perhaps this is what happens when you've done it one way for over a hundred years.

 

[DonC]

• It was passed by a Democratic House and Senate.

• Didn't know the history. Thanks.

 

[kubel]

The tax credit is what it is, it's not going away. It's unlikely to be extended though, absent another massive recession.

Just have patience and allow the market to mandate when EVs will become viable. It won't be long.

 

[OlderThanDirt]

It appears GM and other legacy manufactures are already showing their true colors on EV's after the election.

Automakers ask Trump not to make them produce electric cars in first lobbying effort since election.
https://electrek.co

One has to decide what value owning an EV has to oneself and beyond. We would have purchased with or without a tax credit.
It was an investment. Not for ourselves but for future generations.

No, we did buy from any of the legacy manufactures. Their true regard for EV's was very transparent.

 

[Qinsp]

It appears GM and other legacy manufactures are already showing their true colors on EV's after the election.

Automakers ask Trump not to make them produce electric cars in first lobbying effort since election.
https://electrek.co

One has to decide what value owning an EV has to oneself and beyond. We would have purchased with or without a tax credit.
It was an investment. Not for ourselves but for future generations.

No, we did buy from any of the legacy manufactures. Their true regard for EV's was very transparent.

Automakers do not sell petroleum. They sell cars. Good MPG helps them beat the competition. GM is winning in the full sized SUV mpg fight.

The DNC Presidential effort took more than twice the Big Oil money than Trump.

Why would Big Oil give so much to the DNC for a DNC President? Odd, eh?

You need to understand that politicians and their parties say whatever is necessary to get your vote. But to get donations from the big money folk, they need to Produce Results that exceed the donations. Your vote is just a means to an end, it is not the purpose of a US election.

Trump could not promise as good of a Return on Investment for Big Oil as Hillary could, so they cut checks to Hillary.

 

[DA\Volt]

One has to decide what value owning an EV has to oneself and beyond. We would have purchased with or without a tax credit.
It was an investment. Not for ourselves but for future generations.

No, we did buy from any of the legacy manufactures. Their true regard for EV's was very transparent.

I would not have bought a Volt without the tax credit(s). It's far too expensive without all the credits and rebates compared to other options.

We all have different economic models for our personal situations, and mine allows for the cost of transportation to be significantly cheaper in a PHEV like the Volt compared to other cars I would have purchased.

I did not go EV for the environment or for future generations. More power (pun intended) to those of you that did, but don't assume all Volt owner's do it to be "green". Based on comments from others here who have stated they're running on gasoline in their Volt because electric costs more than gasoline in their area, I suspect I'm not alone in that sentiment.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Qinsp]

I would not have bought a Volt without the tax credit(s). It's far too expensive without all the credits and rebates compared to other options.

We all have different economic models for our personal situations, and mine allows for the cost of transportation to be significantly cheaper in a PHEV like the Volt compared to other cars I would have purchased.

I did not go EV for the environment or for future generations. More power (pun intended) to those of you that did, but don't assume all Volt owner's do it to be "green". Based on comments from others here who have stated they're running on gasoline in their Volt because electric costs more than gasoline in their area, I suspect I'm not alone in that sentiment.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I would NOT have bought my first Volt without the credit, but I would have bought the second and third.

It's hard to see what you get for the extra money until you drive one awhile. IMO, the 2017 Volt is a serious bargain with the incentives. It almost makes me feel guilty for taking some of my tax back from the government for something I enjoy anyhow.

Almost.

 

[kinvodA]

I work in the wind energy industry and even though Trump's administration may not directly cut these tax incentives, his plans to give more incentives to traditional energy sources could still have a negative impact on green energy initiatives.