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Discussion Starter #1
Time to go back to electric seats. Maybe because we are getting older? We can't go longer than 5 hours in our Volt seats - more of a problem in the Gen 2. I traded in an old X5 for my first Volt and will now trade in my 2017 Volt for a plug in hybrid X5 next week. We want to do more road trips and I prefer only 1 vehicle for everything. At least I will be able to do a few around town errands with the 19 mile all electric range.
 

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Good luck! I can only imagine that it must be quite a bummer to go down in available EV range, even with an increase in space and other amenities. I would be interested in hearing of your initial impressions of it.

I give BMW credit for making a plug-in X-5, even with only 19 miles range, as that is 19 more EV miles than any plug-in SUV offering by GM now (i.e. none).

I hope GM makes good on its Buick CUV "Bolt-ec" as I think that could be an interesting choice for us within a couple years.
 

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Time to go back to electric seats. Maybe because we are getting older? We can't go longer than 5 hours in our Volt seats - more of a problem in the Gen 2. I traded in an old X5 for my first Volt and will now trade in my 2017 Volt for a plug in hybrid X5 next week. We want to do more road trips and I prefer only 1 vehicle for everything. At least I will be able to do a few around town errands with the 19 mile all electric range.
2017 X5 Plug-In? You mean from 0 to 14 mph of AER. The Bimmer cannot complete the EPA test cycles under it's mild electric power, nor does it have full power without the gasoline engine warmed up and running. The electric range is there due to Euro req's in some cities that restrict non-plug-in vehicles from the city center. It's not intended to actually be useful. It won't qualify for much EV credit or HOV in some areas.

To put things in perspective, the very large CT6 luxury PHEV sedan gets 31 miles AER, has more EV power, gets 10% better gas economy, and has far more amenities including power massage/heated/cooled/20-way seats. Night vision actually works well when somebody blinds you with their headlights. The thermal imaging has about 3 times the range of the high beams. Reduce deer strikes.

If my choice was going to be BMW, a PHEV model is simply silly. No advantages. Just get the diesel. You'll spend less on fuel than the Hybrid X5.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38169&id=38650&id=38490
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well, I do need an SUV or hatchback for occasional hauling of stuff, and maybe to put on a trailer hitch to tow my boat. Never liked any diesels that I have driven, although they are way better in the last decade. So yes, I would have better choices if I could wait several years. But major road trips start this fall.
 

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2017 X5 Plug-In? You mean from 0 to 14 mph of AER. The Bimmer cannot complete the EPA test cycles under it's mild electric power, nor does it have full power without the gasoline engine warmed up and running. The electric range is there due to Euro req's in some cities that restrict non-plug-in vehicles from the city center. It's not intended to actually be useful. It won't qualify for much EV credit or HOV in some areas.
Not sure what you mean by, "0 to 14 mph of AER"? Were you thinking 14 miles AER?

Here's a review of the BMW X5 xDrive40e. Appears rather capable to me. Electric motor is 111 hp and 184 lb-ft of torque and the gas engine is 2.0-liter, turbocharged four-cylinder. 9.2-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery. According to the review, "Max eDrive locks the X5 into a full electric mode at speeds up to 75 miles per hour."
https://www.autoblog.com/buy/2016-B..._4dr_All_wheel_Drive_Sports_Activity_Vehicle/

Also, the Federal tax credit is $4,668.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/30d-...ric-drive-motor-vehicles-bmw-of-north-america
 

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I wish BMW put more EV range on their e-hybrid vehicles. I have a volt, love it, but the next vehicle needs more space and hopefully more range (though I'm considering getting an ICEr next - CT6 Plug-in, Subaru Outback, and Chevy Suburban are on the short list). Wish I could add an i8 to that list, but it might be a year or two before I can pull that off.
 

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This vehicle seems to be created just to take advantage of close in EV parking spaces in the US...:rolleyes:
 

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This vehicle seems to be created just to take advantage of close in EV parking spaces in the US...:rolleyes:
Apparently you can just pop the hood of any car, lay the charging cable inside, and lower the hood to parked in an EV space with an ICEr.
 

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Not a great fan of these very limited electric range vehicles. I'd wait and see if the Cadillac XT4 has 18 kWh of battery. Then again the tax credits may be gone when it gets released, which might make it too expensive. But if it's the same drive train as the CT6, it will be in an entirely different class than the BMW, that's for sure.

This vehicle seems to be created just to take advantage of close in EV parking spaces in the US...:rolleyes:
My neightbor has a plug in 5 series and she thinks it's great. She has a very short commute, which may have something to do with her liking it.
 

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Not sure what you mean by, "0 to 14 mph of AER"? Were you thinking 14 miles AER?

Here's a review of the BMW X5 xDrive40e. Appears rather capable to me. Electric motor is 111 hp and 184 lb-ft of torque and the gas engine is 2.0-liter, turbocharged four-cylinder. 9.2-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery. According to the review, "Max eDrive locks the X5 into a full electric mode at speeds up to 75 miles per hour."
https://www.autoblog.com/buy/2016-B..._4dr_All_wheel_Drive_Sports_Activity_Vehicle/

Also, the Federal tax credit is $4,668.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/30d-...ric-drive-motor-vehicles-bmw-of-north-america
No, I was thinking 0-14 miles.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38169&id=37309

This is the type of 'cheater' rating you see when a PHEV cannot complete EPA test loops without the ICE coming on at all. You should rate them by the MPGe to see how often the ICE comes on during the EPA cycle.

As you see in the link, the Volt is not 0-53 miles, it is 53 miles AER, and since gas engine does not come on during the EPA loops, it's 106 MPGe because of the higher efficiency of running in all electric mode during the tests. Now the Bimmer only sees 0-14 AER and 56 MPGe because it uses gas engine quite a bit to do the full EPA cycles. On the parts of the EPA test that it CAN run in AER mode, it can get 14 miles, but that's sort of cheating. A Volt will go further than 53 miles on electricity if it gets to skip the more aggressive test cycles, and it will get a higher MPGe. Chevy delivers more than EPA claims, BMW delivers less.

I know our G2 Volts when run easy with the AC on, go over 60 miles of AER and 125 MPGe, if I keep the peak speed to 65 mph, but average speed lower. Like in a congested urban freeway drive, or city driving. This is how a common low range plugin such as the X5 must be driven to reach 14 miles.

But why would I call the Bimmer Plugins weak? The X5 version can go 0-60 mph on pure electricity. However: "in EV mode the X5 xDrive40e needs 22.6 seconds to reach 60 mph" per Car & Driver. That is 1/3 the EV acceleration of the Volt.

BTW - This is why we did not end up the CT6 PHEV version. It suffers the same deficiencies as the Euro shortrange PHEVs. Not nearly as bad as the X5 PHEV, but why bother? We just selected the 3.0 TT Platinum. Why haul around 18.4 kWh of battery if you need to run it off gas anyways for acceleration. But at least the CT6 PHEV gets the full $7500 fed credit and a California HOV sticker (which requires 20 miles of range now). But it is also a message to GM. I will not buy watered down compliance cars from them. They need to make a real effort to get my dollars. Which by the way is about the same as the X5 PHEV due to the difference in fed credit.
 

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Not a great fan of these very limited electric range vehicles. I'd wait and see if the Cadillac XT4 has 18 kWh of battery. Then again the tax credits may be gone when it gets released, which might make it too expensive. But if it's the same drive train as the CT6, it will be in an entirely different class than the BMW, that's for sure.

My neightbor has a plug in 5 series and she thinks it's great. She has a very short commute, which may have something to do with her liking it.
For all the people worried about the tax credit going away, you can always go get a GM Buypower card and make your own rebate pay putting all our expenses on it and paying it off diligently or by using autopay. With that, you collect $250 for the first $k spent in a year, then 2% afterwards. So pile on $362.5k and you get the equivalent of that tax credit (I know, it's hardly worth it, but something is better than nothing. Launder $1.75M through that credit card and you can get yourself a new volt LT for free. Alas, if you hade 1.76m to spend, you could afford to buy the volt, or a Tesla model S for that matter.
 

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No, I was thinking 0-14mph.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38169&id=37309

This is the type of 'cheater' rating you see when a PHEV cannot complete EPA test loops without the ICE coming on at all. You should rate them by the MPGe to see how often the ICE comes on during the EPA cycle.

As you see in the link, the Volt is not 0-53 miles, it is 53 miles AER, and since gas engine does not come on during the EPA loops, it's 106 MPGe because of the higher efficiency of running in all electric mode during the tests. Now the Bimmer only sees 0-14 AER and 56 MPGe because it uses gas engine quite a bit to do the full EPA cycles. On the parts of the EPA test that it CAN run in AER mode, it can get 14 miles, but that's sort of cheating. A Volt will go further than 53 miles on electricity if it gets to skip the more aggressive test cycles, and it will get a higher MPGe. Chevy delivers more than EPA claims, BMW delivers less.

I know our G2 Volts when run easy with the AC on, go over 60 miles of AER and 125 MPGe, if I keep the peak speed to 65 mph, but average speed lower. Like in a congested urban freeway drive, or city driving. This is how a common low range plugin such as the X5 must be driven to reach 14 miles.

But why would I call the Bimmer Plugins weak? The X5 version can go 0-60 mph on pure electricity. However: "in EV mode the X5 xDrive40e needs 22.6 seconds to reach 60 mph" per Car & Driver. That is 1/3 the EV acceleration of the Volt.

BTW - This is why we did not end up the CT6 PHEV version. It suffers the same deficiencies as the Euro shortrange PHEVs. Not nearly as bad as the X5 PHEV, but why bother? We just selected the 3.0 TT Platinum. Why haul around 18.4 kWh of battery if you need to run it off gas anyways for acceleration. But at least the CT6 PHEV gets the full $7500 fed credit and a California HOV sticker (which requires 20 miles of range now). But it is also a message to GM. I will not buy watered down compliance cars from them. They need to make a real effort to get my dollars. Which by the way is about the same as the X5 PHEV due to the difference in fed credit.
Wow, this sounds like the half-assed implementation BMW did of start/stop technology. They're cutting corners. I wonder how long before BMW starts loosing their aura of being a drivers car. Personally I've driven BMWs and wasn't impressed.
 

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Not sure what you mean by, "0 to 14 mph of AER"? ...[/url]
DOH!!! Now I know what you are trying to say. I had a TYPO, not a factual error. It is EPA rated at 0 to 14 miles of AER.

This is because the electric drive components are not large enough to have an honest EV mode. More like a "limp home" mode. So the BMW AER is actually an exaggeration that only applies to hypermiling with light loads in flat terrain at low speeds. It is not what you'd normally refer to as Electric Range.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Good luck with BMW. I would.have gone for XC90.
Thanks for the tip. I didn't see a luxury seating option for the XC90 like the BMW.

The BMW X5 has ventilated front seats (for a cost of course) so that you can have ambient cabin air blowing through them to help prevent a sweaty back (which I always get on long trips). Also, the multi-contour seats have all kind of settings from lumbar support to extending thigh support (something we always wanted). These seats are the closest thing to our home recliners that we can find online for a plug-in SUV.
 

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A one option (leather) X5e is $65,645. That's nuts. By the time you add in some popular options you are approaching $70K. You are getting close to a Tesla MX 75D. If it was my money I'd buy the Tesla.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
A one option (leather) X5e is $65,645. That's nuts. By the time you add in some popular options you are approaching $70K. You are getting close to a Tesla MX 75D. If it was my money I'd buy the Tesla.
Well, we plan to take the SUV to remote places, and the X5e has a 540 mile combined range. I don't want Tesla range anxiety.
 

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Time to go back to electric seats. Maybe because we are getting older? We can't go longer than 5 hours in our Volt seats - more of a problem in the Gen 2. I traded in an old X5 for my first Volt and will now trade in my 2017 Volt for a plug in hybrid X5 next week. We want to do more road trips and I prefer only 1 vehicle for everything. At least I will be able to do a few around town errands with the 19 mile all electric range.
HI...I can only imagine how little the dealer will give you in trade for your 2017 Volt.
Please private message me with info on car and what you can accept for it?
thanks....mls
 

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Well, we plan to take the SUV to remote places, and the X5e has a 540 mile combined range. I don't want Tesla range anxiety.
It's surprisingly easy to find electricity in remote places - these days, even tiny towns buried deep in the Smoky mountains have a few dedicated EV charging stations, and you can actually charge from any outlet, anywhere - and it's going to continue to get easier over time.

Tesla has pretty well eliminated range anxiety under the original definition of not knowing whether you'll get there or not these days - put a destination into the Navigation and you'll get a yes or no in seconds (Tesla gives an estimated battery percentage remaining at that destination - in my experience the percentages are slightly conservative for my typical driving and assume the car is a little lighter than it is for elevation changes right now.) You may not always like the answer, but you'll have the answer - and you can change the consumption a bunch by slowing down and using less HVAC if you need to.

Good luck with your new BMW.
 
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