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It makes sense that all-electric drive cars (be they dual or serial hybrid) would be a popular concept in Eurpoe, given the high price of gasoline and the availability of much cheaper electricity.
 

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phantomv, Did you read the entire article? You missed:

"The plug-ins destined for test fleets in 2009 will feature lithium-ion batteries and will undoubtedly have a longer electric-only range."
 

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phantomv, Did you read the entire article? You missed:

"The plug-ins destined for test fleets in 2009 will feature lithium-ion batteries and will undoubtedly have a longer electric-only range."
I don't think this is inconsistent. The current battery pack gives you an EV range of a mile or something and about 30 mph with a very light foot. 60 mph and 6 miles would be a big improvement, more than the increased energy density would justify.

Basically a Prius is an ICE with a battery assist or electronic transmission, however you want to look at it. It's not an EV like the Volt. Attaching a plug to the battery pack doesn't change this. (I'd say it's like "putting lipstick on a pig" but that seems politically charged at the moment ....).
 

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I'm interested in how they are claiming an EV peak speed 60mph without changing the existing transaxle and electric motor design significantly. Anyone have details on it??
WopOnTour
 

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Basically a Prius is an ICE with a battery assist or electronic transmission, however you want to look at it. It's not an EV like the Volt. Attaching a plug to the battery pack doesn't change this. (I'd say it's like "putting lipstick on a pig" but that seems politically charged at the moment ....).



Basically you are wrong in what you said. The Prius is a series-parallel hybrid. I can function completely as a series hybrid - engine charging the battery as the electric motor drives the car all by itself.

Thus, if the motor was made a bit bigger (at allow 65 mph) and the battery was made a little bigger than the Volt's, it would outperform the Volt. How big they make the motor and how big they decide to make the battery is all up to them (they are keep that a secret at the moment - they have that luxury). They will have carefully looked at where they want to be, what is the expected competition (Volt), and what they think the market will accept in terms of price/performance.

It's funny how people completely dismiss Toyota and think they are not capable of competing even though they have massive amounts of cash, are the market leaders and have the highest amount of lithium-ion battery research funding. Are you people crazy or just fan boys?
 

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To be especially offensive, the term should be spelled "fanboi" ;)
Regardless, it's always one word: fanboy, fanboi, etc.
 

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Correct, a "fanboy" stands next to you waving a palm-frawn while you watch the belly-dancers and smoke from a hookah ;)

I'm very curious where this supposed detail of a highway EV speed capable PHEV Prius was sourced.
I've never heard or seen anything from Toyota to this respect. (some random Wire'd blogger doesn't count)
If the PHEV Prius was going to be able to do 60-65 in EV mode you would think Toyota would indicate as such, somewhere... such as in press release opportunities like this:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/09/10/edf-toyota-start-uk-plug-in-prius-tests-today/

But since it's still supposedly a series-parallel hybrid, perhaps they are going 2-mode?
OR
perhaps this 65 mph EV is someone's just pipe dream! (see hookah comment above)

LINK PLEASE!!

WOT

*EDIT*
OK, I did manage to find a link to an interview with Toyota Europe's Colin Hensley claiming that their plug-in Prius can get up to 60mph in EV mode (providing you can get to a roadway where you can achieve that legally within 6 miles before the battery is depleted)
He also states it will have 2 batteries , (one of which is the plug-in depletion battery)
http://www.smartplanet.com/news/transport/10001660/video-toyota-and-edf-on-the-plug-in-prius.htm
Still unknown if this is just a slip of the tongue on Hensley's part (ala Lutz) or...
Man, this reminds me of the SPACE RACE when I was a kid!!
 

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The prototype plug-ins, which are based on the '09 Priuses and which can do 60 on electric alone, are running on NiMHs. They get 6 or so miles AER. The production plug-in Prius will have Li-Ion and will have longer AER.

In other words, there's no transaxle change to the PHEV because it's based on the NEXT generation of Prius, not this one.
 

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The prototype plug-ins, which are based on the '09 Priuses and which can do 60 on electric alone, are running on NiMHs. They get 6 or so miles AER. The production plug-in Prius will have Li-Ion and will have longer AER.
Well it appears you read the same article as I did! ;) So at least we're both on the same page there...
dagwood55 said:
In other words, there's no transaxle change to the PHEV because it's based on the NEXT generation of Prius, not this one.
Was this supposed to be a play on words? (i.e. "Of course the transaxle hasn't changed because it's an all new transaxle in an all new product!") If so, perhaps I should qualify my original statement a bit.

ALL current technical data and information currently being provided by Toyota (to a great many industry media sources ) state that the "all-new" 2010 Prius (in both "regular" and plug-in versions) will STILL be primarily a single-mode (input split) series-parallel transaxle, and essentially identical to the current design with the exception of slightly larger (+kW) motors.So my statements regarding it wasn't whether or not it was a "new" transmission model (of course I knew it was) it was the surprise that they didn't make the transition to either a 2-mode or series type transmission in order to achieve (and sustain) a supposed 60 mph EV mode.

If you know anything about the Synergy transaxle, this would seem almost inconceivable as it would mean that at 60 mph MG1 would have to be operating at a near maximum 3543 rpm , however MG2 would have to be operating at nearly 2x it's maximum speed at -9211 rpm!(again assuming ICE=0rpm) Even with significant changes in the input or final drive gearing, overspeeding the most efficient PMSM motors currently available, and an 8-10kWhr source it wont be able to support those combined motor speeds for more than a few minutes before depletion.

So either the transmission design HAS changed (and the intent of my query) or Toyota has found some way to re-write the book on electric motor drivetrains (not all that inconceivable either) but either way, inquiring minds want to KNOW!
So if you happen to work for Toyota Motor Corp. and/or have intimate knowledge or details of the inner workings of the "new" Synergy Drive transaxle, please SPEAK UP!

Peace
WopOnTour
 

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WopOnTour, OK. I see what you were getting at.

Nobody from Toyota is going to talk about that prior to the official unveiling (this winter?) and longer for full info on the PHEV variant. As it is, they've given out an unusual amount of information about the Prius 3. They're probably being goaded into this a little bit by all the Volt hype. On the other hand, it's likely that their plans, goals and engineering are all working well, close to fruition, and they can afford to talk a bit more about the project than they have in the past.

Inquiring minds will just have to be patient. :)
 

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WopOnTour, OK. I see what you were getting at.

Nobody from Toyota is going to talk about that prior to the official unveiling (this winter?) and longer for full info on the PHEV variant. As it is, they've given out an unusual amount of information about the Prius 3. They're probably being goaded into this a little bit by all the Volt hype. On the other hand, it's likely that their plans, goals and engineering are all working well, close to fruition, and they can afford to talk a bit more about the project than they have in the past.

Inquiring minds will just have to be patient. :)
My guess is the unveiling will be Detroit 2009. But, I could be way off.
 
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