[JoeReal]

At long last, Toyota seems to be joining the electric car revolution. And thanks to Panasonic who is willing to help with cheaper denser lithium ion batteries. Panasonic really needed another major market aside from Tesla and Toyota's potential market can be huge. LG-Chem already has contracts with many car manufacturers. This would make Panasonic remain at top EV battery supplier.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/we-could-finally-see-an-all-electric-prius/

 

[Barry]

An EV Prius [which the original thread title suggested, before it was edited] seems purely speculative at this point. The only fact being reported there is the beginning of a transition from Ni-MH to Li-ion battery chemistry in some versions of the vehicle. But given the loyalty that Prius has built, they could sell a mountain of EVs under that name.

 

[BAZINGA]

Be careful what we ask for, Toyota could bury all other manufactures given their loyal customer base.

 

[viking79]

Toyota put their eggs in the wrong basket (FCV while ignoring EV) Whoops. They spent all this time becoming the green company, only to realize they went for the 10% market, not the mainstream with the Prius. They are big enough it will probably be okay, but they seem to be in a situation of GM in the 1990s or early 2000s. VW has more interesting EV plans.

Although they have a loyal customer base, the same was/is true for GM. Won't mean they can bury the competition unless they do something people want.

 

[alfon]

I wonder how long that would take for Toyota to actually have for sale on the dealer lots a pure electric Prius. I am still waiting for the 2017 Prius Prime plug in to arrive on the dealers lots. Must be a very slow boat leaving Japan....

 

[Steverino]

I changed the sensational (and misleading) headline. The Prius Prime was announced long ago, it's not all electric. It's more like a shorter distance Volt. It's not like the Bolt.

 

[DonC]

Anyone know if these Panasonic cells are the 18650s? I find it hard to believe that Toyota would use that format. Would be most interesting if it was.

 

[Raymondjram]

Ecch! Just 25 miles? I rather buy the Ford Fusion Energi, which is a very confortable American designed and manufactured midsized sedan (and recommended by Consumer Reports) than that Prius! It can't even compare to the Gen 1 Volt!

As I see it, if GM doesn't offer the Chevy Bolt EV here, I see mysellf buying the Fusion Energi instead.

 

[Raymondjram]

Anyone know if these Panasonic cells are the 18650s? I find it hard to believe that Toyota would use that format. Would be most interesting if it was.

No mention about thermal management. If they follow Tesla Motors' example and use liquid cooling, the battery will survive. But if Toyota cuts corners and uses air cooling, as the Chevy Malibu Hybrid and Ford Fusion Hybrid does for their smaller batteries, then that Prime will be a "Leaf" copy and probably fail or lose capacity with time. My dentist has a Prius which had the battery replaced twice!

BTW, Panasonic isn't the only Japanes Li-Ion battery manufacturer. They have Hitachi Maxell, NEC Tokin, Sanyo, Seiki, Toshiba, and Yuasa, too.

 

[Splitting Atoms]

No mention about thermal management. If they follow Tesla Motors' example and use liquid cooling, the battery will survive. But if Toyota cuts corners and uses air cooling, as the Chevy Malibu Hybrid and Ford Fusion Hybrid does for their smaller batteries, then that Prime will be a "Leaf" copy and probably fail or lose capacity with time. My dentist has a Prius which had the battery replaced twice!

BTW, Panasonic isn't the only Japanes Li-Ion battery manufacturer. They have Hitachi Maxell, NEC Tokin, Sanyo, Seiki, Toshiba, and Yuasa, too.

Everything I've heard is that they are air-cooled. Has the Energi had any issues? Those are air-cooled too?

 

[bro1999]

Everything I've heard is that they are air-cooled. Has the Energi had any issues? Those are air-cooled too?

Energis have had LOTS of issues with battery degradation. So much so, the same law firm that handled the Leaf class action lawsuit is now looking into a similar lawsuit on behalf of Ford Energi owners. Some owners have experienced 30%+ degradation in less than 3 years/36k miles. And Ford has stated the battery capacity warranty info is PROPRIETARY, so no one even knows when their Energi battery may qualify for a replacement, if ever! Ford can just go "your battery is within normal specs, sorry. Oh, you want to know what those specs are? Sorry, proprietary info! Sucker!"

 

[JoeReal]

No mention about thermal management. If they follow Tesla Motors' example and use liquid cooling, the battery will survive. But if Toyota cuts corners and uses air cooling, as the Chevy Malibu Hybrid and Ford Fusion Hybrid does for their smaller batteries, then that Prime will be a "Leaf" copy and probably fail or lose capacity with time. My dentist has a Prius which had the battery replaced twice!

BTW, Panasonic isn't the only Japanes Li-Ion battery manufacturer. They have Hitachi Maxell, NEC Tokin, Sanyo, Seiki, Toshiba, and Yuasa, too.

For the Prius Prime, it would be a different ball game in California. Since it is a plug-in, PZEV, Toyota is required to guarantee their battery for 10 year/150,000 miles.

http://energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fac...warranty-plug-vehicle-batteries-8-years100000

 

[Splitting Atoms]

Energis have had LOTS of issues with battery degradation. So much so, the same law firm that handled the Leaf class action lawsuit is now looking into a similar lawsuit on behalf of Ford Energi owners. Some owners have experienced 30%+ degradation in less than 3 years/36k miles. And Ford has stated the battery capacity warranty info is PROPRIETARY, so no one even knows when their Energi battery may qualify for a replacement, if ever! Ford can just go "your battery is within normal specs, sorry. Oh, you want to know what those specs are? Sorry, proprietary info! Sucker!"

Interesting!

 

[rmay635703]

I wonder how long that would take for Toyota to actually have for sale on the dealer lots a pure electric Prius. I am still waiting for the 2017 Prius Prime plug in to arrive on the dealers lots. Must be a very slow boat leaving Japan....

Months but Toyo doesn't have the will or desire because their fleet average is already fairly high

 

[Sheldon]

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...-volt-plug-in-hybrid-video-test#disqus_thread

This is a side by side review/comparison of a 2017 gen2 Volt vs a 2017 Prius Prime plug-in hybrid. They make it sound like the Prius Prime is already available! Does anyone have an update as to when the 2017 Prius Prime will show up in dealer's showrooms? Is it available to order? It doesn't seem to be in http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/phevsbs.shtml yet...

 

[mr_raider]

Rather get the Audi A3 etron. If I'm going to put up with crap EV range, might as well ride around in style.

 

[vespacarfc]

Ecch! Just 25 miles? I rather buy the Ford Fusion Energi, which is a very confortable American designed and manufactured midsized sedan (and recommended by Consumer Reports) than that Prius! It can't even compare to the Gen 1 Volt!

As I see it, if GM doesn't offer the Chevy Bolt EV here, I see mysellf buying the Fusion Energi instead.

Rent one first(rental in Vegas) , then try and sync your phone to play Bluetooth. It took a good hour to get everything working (downloading apps etc). Until Ford get that right, I won't go near one. Sync sucks!

Cheers,
Tross

 

[vespacarfc]

Be careful what we ask for, Toyota could bury all other manufactures given their loyal customer base.

I owned a Toyota Corolla, so the first place I headed is to a Toyota dealer to look at a Prius, Camry etc. I really didn't like what I saw, and when you crunch the numbers up here in Ontario, (12.5K gov't rebate) the price difference between the the two are a few thousand. So when the choice is a fully loaded Prius or a fully loaded Volt, I went with the Volt and Toyota quality isn't what it used to be. In the end I narrowed it down between a Volkswagen Passat and the Volt. I think you can figure out which won.

Cheers,
Tross

 

[rgoodrich]

Prior to buying my 2017 Volt I test drove a Prius Prime. I could not find a dealer that had one charged enough to run in EV only mode or was willing to spend a little time to charge one up prior to a test drive. I suspect that EV only performance was subpar, even on the ICE it was sluggish. That being said, overall the car is nice, the display is neat but a little quirky and it was very roomy given the overall size. But I preferred the driving experience of the Volt.

And although the MSRP of the Prime Advanced was about $7K less than the Volt Premium I ended up purchasing, in the end it was cheaper to buy the Volt because of better dealer pricing, better incentives and $7500 vs $4500 tax credit.

 

[JStrnad]

Prior to buying my 2017 Volt I test drove a Prius Prime. I could not find a dealer that had one charged enough to run in EV only mode or was willing to spend a little time to charge one up prior to a test drive. I suspect that EV only performance was subpar, even on the ICE it was sluggish. That being said, overall the car is nice, the display is neat but a little quirky and it was very roomy given the overall size. But I preferred the driving experience of the Volt.

And although the MSRP of the Prime Advanced was about $7K less than the Volt Premium I ended up purchasing, in the end it was cheaper to buy the Volt because of better dealer pricing, better incentives and $7500 vs $4500 tax credit.

I've only tried one test drive, and that one wasn't charged, either.