I'm with Texas on this one (I can't believe I wrote that!), you make claims about fuel cell cost, but show no credible reference to support it. Even if you are correct and fuel cells for vehicles are 3-4X more than an ICE (does that include the cost of the high-pressure tanks?), are you really going to spend that much money on a power source you rarely use in a FC-PHEV? Economically it would make more sense to run a hydrogen ICE like the one BMW built.Jeremy,
Same old tired argument. Rapid refill, and cheaper upfront costs will trump abstract efficienty numbers everytime. Batteries are currently far too expensive and take too long to recharge.
I believe that I linked to the article that stated the current fuel cell from GM only cost 3X to 4X the cost of an ICE in one of my posts on this site, so perhaps that will narrow your search.I'm with Texas on this one (I can't believe I wrote that!), you make claims about fuel cell cost, but show no credible reference to support it.
A fuel cell is more efficient than a hydrogen ICE, but more importantly, a fuel cell is silent. Initially, GM targeted their fuel cells for Cadillacs, but to save development time, they are introducing them in the Volt body style. That said, some will still prefer, and should have the option for a hydrogen ICE.Even if you are correct and fuel cells for vehicles are 3-4X more than an ICE (does that include the cost of the high-pressure tanks?), are you really going to spend that much money on a power source you rarely use in a FC-PHEV?
It would be interesting to see what the economics are. A hydrogen ICE would only be 1/2 as cheap, while the fuel efficiency is probably only 1/2 that of a fuel cell, so I suspect the cross-over point would be much sooner than in the calc between fuel cells and batteries.Economically it would make more sense to run a hydrogen ICE like the one BMW built.
If you run across the link again, please repost.I believe that I linked to the article that stated the current fuel cell from GM only cost 3X to 4X the cost of an ICE in one of my posts on this site, so perhaps that will narrow your search.
A fuel cell is more efficient than a hydrogen ICE, but more importantly, a fuel cell is silent. Initially, GM targeted their fuel cells for Cadillacs, but to save development time, they are introducing them in the Volt body style. That said, some will still prefer, and should have the option for a hydrogen ICE.
It would be interesting to see what the economics are. A hydrogen ICE would only be 1/2 as cheap, while the fuel efficiency is probably only 1/2 that of a fuel cell, so I suspect the cross-over point would be much sooner than in the calc between fuel cells and batteries.
As companies are offering all these options, we will get to see which approach wins out in the end. I am still pulling for the Air Car to make significant penetration in the small / cheap car market.
Yes, I do believe that there is a market for the hydrogen ICE, and it has some attractive features. Cold start is very important in very cold climates, and hydrogen is already a gas, so there is no concern over the need to atomize the fuel to start the engine in cold temperatures.If you run across the link again, please repost.
The other advantage of the hydrogen ICE in the short term is that it would run on gas as well, so it would be a more viable alternative with limited hydrogen availability.
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Cont...=t0eBkkksaeOlO9zOt8gzADZCvgwlYpsTNlAXDAkk1+s=
