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Discussion Starter #1

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Yea !
but 4 kids = the EV tax credit and you get it EACH year :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yea !
but 4 kids = the EV tax credit and you get it EACH year :)
...until they grow up, are out of the house, and are no longer dependent on you...plus college tuition pretty much overwhelms the tax benefit of having kids (though kids are awesome... can’t wait for grandkids as I will be spoiling them rotten).
 

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can't wait for grandkids as I will be spoiling them rotten).
Surprisingy to see from someone as money responsible as you. Hopefully there will be some of your spending lessens passed down to them. :)

I do have two of my own so I know what you mean :)
 

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Kids are the reason I'm not driving a Tesla......damn daycare alone is approaching the cost of a mortgage
With our second child my wife retired from the workforce to raise the kids. Luckily I was able to quintuple my salary over time to easily make up the difference. Though I lost the best job of my life (so far) last year because the company moved, so now i’m only at triple of that salary when she left the workforce. It’s amazing how much you don’t really need when faced with budget cuts. Check out the EveryDollar app - after using that, it was as if I got a raise. Instead of wondering where all the money went, it puts up guard rails to help you live within your means. But it only works if the person in the mirror works at it.
 

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Thanks for the link, Ilninja! I was reading the news this morning and wondering exactly what the fate of the electric car tax credit was going to be. The latest Insideevs estimate has Tesla and GM both getting the credit cut in half in 4th Quarter of 2018, Nissan around 9 months later. Maybe eliminating the credit altogether in the 2nd Quarter of 2019 would be a good idea. After GM and Tesla spent all that money to design and build their electric cars, it would be less than optimal to see them at a $7500 disadvantage to the laggards like Ford, BMW, Toyota and Fiat-Chrysler. Or just extend it for one more year at $4000 for everyone.
The credit has served its purpose, it has fueled the rise of the electric car industry in the US and American electric cars are the best in the world. BYD may build a ton of them, but they are nothing compared to the offerings of GM and Tesla, and shortly, Nissan.
 

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Thank goodness Hillary won the election!! Wait ...
 

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The economy is currently on a sugar high, and we are way overdue for a recession. After this tax bill is signed (which is not a given with the tumult around this administration), we may be in for a big fall. Only it may hurt more than previous recessions given the even ever accelerating income inequality this bill creates. The EV market could easily stall if middle class people don't have the means to participate and keep sales numbers high. The real econometric is trickle up. Demand drives the economy in this country, and this bill is the opposite of that.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the link, Ilninja! I was reading the news this morning and wondering exactly what the fate of the electric car tax credit was going to be. The latest Insideevs estimate has Tesla and GM both getting the credit cut in half in 4th Quarter of 2018, Nissan around 9 months later. Maybe eliminating the credit altogether in the 2nd Quarter of 2019 would be a good idea. After GM and Tesla spent all that money to design and build their electric cars, it would be less than optimal to see them at a $7500 disadvantage to the laggards like Ford, BMW, Toyota and Fiat-Chrysler. Or just extend it for one more year at $4000 for everyone.
The credit has served its purpose, it has fueled the rise of the electric car industry in the US and American electric cars are the best in the world. BYD may build a ton of them, but they are nothing compared to the offerings of GM and Tesla, and shortly, Nissan.
It's LLninja....
 

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Sorry for spelling your handle wrong! I assumed it was IL for Illini. My Dad always told to never assume, and this is why! LOL!
 

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Surprisingy to see from someone as money responsible as you. Hopefully there will be some of your spending lessens passed down to them. :)

I do have two of my own so I know what you mean :)
I plan to leave a legacy to my kids and grandkids, so they will have to know how to handle money - hopefully by example.
 

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The economy is currently on a sugar high, and we are way overdue for a recession. After this tax bill is signed (which is not a given with the tumult around this administration), we may be in for a big fall. Only it may hurt more than previous recessions given the even ever accelerating income inequality this bill creates. The EV market could easily stall if middle class people don't have the means to participate and keep sales numbers high. The real econometric is trickle up. Demand drives the economy in this country, and this bill is the opposite of that.
I'm guessing your a graduate of Obamanomics.
Tax tax tax and let the big wigs in DC decide who gets what.

Government should protect and oversee, not control and run.
Business tax should be cut even lower IMO.

News flash, businesses don't pay taxes. They collect taxes from customers and pass them on to the government.

After 8 years of pathetic growth by the Community Organizer In Charge the market is begging to grow.
 

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I'm guessing your a graduate of Obamanomics.
Tax tax tax and let the big wigs in DC decide who gets what.

Government should protect and oversee, not control and run.
Business tax should be cut even lower IMO.

News flash, businesses don't pay taxes. They collect taxes from customers and pass them on to the government.

After 8 years of pathetic growth by the Community Organizer In Charge the market is begging to grow.
Actually I graduated somewhere else ;)

If you aren't aware, 75% of our GDP is consumer spending. Not yacht purchases, not stock trading, not loans, not real estate, just plain spending by slugs like you and me. If you give a poor person a dollar they will spend it immediately on something they absolutely need (food, clothing, etc.) that they can't otherwise afford. If you give someone in the upper middle class that same dollar, it almost invariably winds up in a bank, because they have pretty much everything they already need. It doesn't take a lot of tax cut at the lower end of the spectrum to goose the economy. While tax cuts at the upper end simply create more wealth. And as I stated before, the economy is already hot (because of 8 years of that Community guy in charge). We are also at nearly full employment. One misstep and the economy may tank. Only this time we won't be able to cut interest rates, or raise taxes to help fix things. If you have a secure job and you can hold your 401K for at least 10 years, you may still come out ok.
 

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Ridiculous. Putting money in a bank is a great way to diminish wealth. Maybe no one told the slugs. I put enough in the bank to pay my bills. The rest goes into investments. Sometimes even real estate or durable goods that I plan to use.
You made my point. Collectively the "bank" is anything that does not generate more GDP.
 

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Gubmint does not create wealth, it only takes it.
That's odd. Last time I checked the New Deal created gobs of wealth, and brought the country out of the (so far) only depression.

And the EV tax credit from the gubmint seems to have helped Musk do pretty well too.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Actually I graduated somewhere else ;)

If you aren't aware, 75% of our GDP is consumer spending. Not yacht purchases, not stock trading, not loans, not real estate, just plain spending by slugs like you and me. If you give a poor person a dollar they will spend it immediately on something they absolutely need (food, clothing, etc.) that they can't otherwise afford. If you give someone in the upper middle class that same dollar, it almost invariably winds up in a bank, because they have pretty much everything they already need. It doesn't take a lot of tax cut at the lower end of the spectrum to goose the economy. While tax cuts at the upper end simply create more wealth. And as I stated before, the economy is already hot (because of 8 years of that Community guy in charge). We are also at nearly full employment. One misstep and the economy may tank. Only this time we won't be able to cut interest rates, or raise taxes to help fix things. If you have a secure job and you can hold your 401K for at least 10 years, you may still come out ok.
I don't agree. Most whopper floppers working below the poverty level are carrying better smartphones than mine. And many in the upper middle class are spending like Congress, faster than they are bringing it in. In one sense, the upper middle class on paper is poorer than the poor. Our poor don't have any money - our upper middle class are in the hole at least 6 figures. I'm not sure which is better.

And just to continue to be a contrarian, no job is secure. I've worked for 3 Fortune 500 companies, and all of them have had their fair share of downsizing. Having a 401K and a health plan is an illusion of security, but seen many coworkers and acquaintances have to deal with serious cash flow problems when companies decide to move or close down offices. I've been truly lucky and blessed that I've only had three 1 week breaks between each job since graduating college (and most were my choice to take a week off), but there are many that have to go months or years with un/under-employment.

So here's a good gut check. If you lost your job today, how long could you go before you've blown through your emergency fund? I think I can go about 6 months using the emergency fund, maybe 2-3 years if we decide to dip into the wife's 401k (without penalty), much longer if I dip into my 401k (with penalty). These numbers will increase dramatically when I knock out the mortgage.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
That's odd. Last time I checked the New Deal created gobs of wealth, and brought the country out of the (so far) only depression.

And the EV tax credit from the gubmint seems to have helped Musk do pretty well too.
I doubt many Tesla Model S or X owners were swayed by the tax credit.... sure they'll take it if it's there, but luxury car owners usually don't scoff at price. They're looking for quality, prestige, exclusivity. I'm sure many Model 3 owners are hoping their cars get built before the credit tapers and then disappears, and many of them are upper middle class people in heavy debt.

And is Musk really doing all that well? The cash flow just isn't there yet, the next year will speak volumes on whether Tesla will make it or not. Meanwhile, a famous short seller is going bearish in a major way with TSLA.
 
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