[notaguru]

On our first Volt we were somewhat taken advantage of, and paid a few thousand more than necessary. We'd like to do better this time.

Our 2012 is fine, but we nevertheless plan to buy a new 2017 in the next few weeks - surely our last car. We want a Premiere, preferably in Summit White, loaded with ACC and automatic safety functions. Online resources tell us to expect $40k or so - but to look for GM incentives and ask for dealer help. We have cash, and super credit if we decide to finance.

Also, there's the question of our loaded 2012 with ~65k miles, which we own outright. The car is in fine shape and still has extended warranty remaining. Trade in? Sell privately? Value?

We'll be grateful for guidance regarding strategy, source, timing, incentives, etc.

 

[DonC]

When selling a used car you will always do better in a private sale but there is a hassle factor. Try CarMax. They'll give you an offer of a purchase price which is good for 7 days. That way you'll at least have a base.

On new cars, the best deals showed up a a few months back. Maybe $5K or even $5.5K off. Then prices backed up a bit. Right now the discount is more like $4700 - $5000. As we move towards the next MY prices are likely to go down a bit, and the car market is soft in general, but nothing is guaranteed. I'd likely wait a month or so and see what shakes out. Some people expect a fire sale but I don't see that given the inventory level.

For a good idea on price, look at Rydell. You don't have to buy from them but its pricing gives you a good idea of what you can expect.

 

[Kraven]

DonC gives very good advice above. I have used AutoTrader.com to sell a few cars over the years, great success with that platform. As Don said, you will have to handle your own business, talk/email/text with prospective buyers, do the test drive, sale document and transfer title. So there is some sales and administration if you handle yourself. If you are a point in life where you don't want/need those tasks, then that CarMax sounds like a decent option to consider in addition to asking what a dealer might give your for a trade. Go to CarMax first so you have that info before you go to a dealer and determine what trade value they will give.

On the new car side, as the year progresses deals will probably get better the closer we get to MY2018 being released as is usual. I have experiences, both positive, with Weseloh in San Diego and Selman in Orange County. Rydell as a start might be good then go from there. Email is the best way to negotiate price. In fact I won't step foot in a dealership until I have a commitment via email on price and the actual inventory number/VIN of the vehicle I'm looking to purchase along with the electronic version of the Monroney sticker so I can see all the options included to ensure it has what I want. I have the exact vehicle you are looking for, options etc. and I think I got around $5.5K off MSRP. That was a fair price and was last Fall. I expect you can get close to that, pretty consistent with what Don is saying as well.

Right now I'd be watching for a 4th of July special, but my strategy, if you are looking to buy in the next few weeks, would be to email these dealerships tomorrow and see what you can do as we approach month end. Often times a dealership is close to getting a sales quota/bonus and if you are one that helps put them at that number, or real close to it, you can get a better deal.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like as well for any other help you might need.

 

[notaguru]

Good prescription for success!
It's Rydell and CarMax tomorrow, at least for benchmarks. Weseloh is very convenient, so with numbers in hand from an aggressive dealer (Rydell) perhaps I can get them to match.
Thanks.

 

[llninja]

Use Kelly blue book (kbb.com) to get an idea of what dealer tradein vs. private sale prices might be for your used volt.

As a rule, I will never trade in a car at the dealership ever again as they will get you coming and going. When buying the best time to buy a new 2017 is in 2018. But then you are left with remaining inventory and might have to drive farther to find exactly what you need. As a benchmark of what is possible I got my 2013 premium new with a $44k MSRP for $21k, but that included a GM card rebate, the $5k price drop between 2013-14, and a $4k state rebate (program has since been suspended). Dealerships in rural towns where mostly what they sell are pickups is a prime location to pick up an ignored volt at a steep discount, where trying to get one in the LA area means there are plenty of competing buyers and you might end up paying more. It's all about patience and a big game of chicken waiting for the best deal to get better vs. possibly losing the deal to someone else.

I think the reason my car sat in the lot so long is that the $44k MSRP scared most people off. It certainly prevented me from inquiring about the car until the end of the model year after the car had been on the lot for most of the year. I was pleasantly surprised how many discounts they had thrown onto the car, above and beyond what was on their website.

 

[notaguru]

Thanks!

Online sources such as KBB indicate that our 2012's trade-in value is about $8k and that it would retail for about $11k. We plan to keep the 120VAC charge cord, which adds a few bucks to our side of the deal. We have a Blink 240VAC charger in my garage.

Online carbuying calculators indicate that a fully loaded 2017 should cost about $37k (before trade-in, minus special incentives, ignoring rebates).

Therefore, I'll need about $29k (minus incentives) for a trade-in deal and about $26k if I peddle the 2012 myself. Presumably the incentives menu changes often, so that's the major variable.

We want a white 2017 Premier Volt, loaded. With those approximate numbers in hand, we can shop. Today should be interesting, but I'd rather visit the dentist than a car dealer so will - as suggested - try to do most of the dialog via email. I have no problem traveling to a distant dealership if the numbers are worth it.

Any further advice regarding numbers, incentives, opportunities, expectations, or specific dealers will be GREATLY appreciated!

 

[Kraven]

Email Carmine at [email protected] Very nice guy, fair and a Volt owner himself.

 

[BillG]

We plan to keep the 120VAC charge cord, which adds a few bucks to our side of the deal.

What does this mean? Are you planning to trade or sell your car without the factory EVSE? Who would want that deal? You will be getting a new EVSE with the new car that has 120V/240V capability. Why hogtie your trade/sale by withholding necessary accessories?

 

[notaguru]

Thanks for that correction -

From GM's car configuration menu, I saw that the charge cord is listed as a $500+ accessory. From your note, I guess that's if the buyer needs another one for a second charging location. So - my cable will go with the car, as I need only one.

ALSO: I just received a written proposal from Dealer #1 (Weseloh) for a 100% loaded white car, for $26k plus my 2012.

 

[BillG]

That sounds like the deal you were looking for. Wait at your peril!

 

[notaguru]

BUT!!!
The dealer just apologized. He quoted on a Bolt, not a Volt. I'm waiting.

 

[llninja]

BUT!!!
The dealer just apologized. He quoted on a Bolt, not a Volt. I'm waiting.

Could you imagine walking up with the check in hand, and getting the wrong car? I think you will see a lower volt price than bolt price Ofingers crossed).

 

[notaguru]

Right - the Volt is $2k less than the Bolt.
The numbers are crazy, though.
After discounts and incentives, a loaded Premier is $35,675 (buy) $30,400 (lease). Obviously, that ignores tax benefit.

I'm going in this afternoon to ensure clarity on this, and will close the deal if they like my trade at something near the KBB number. CarMax is still an option...

 

[DonC]

BUT!!!
The dealer just apologized. He quoted on a Bolt, not a Volt. I'm waiting.

Yeah, as you know, Bolts are more expensive ...... LOL Nice deal. If you're dealing with the internet sales guys you shouldn't have any issues. It's a different process. My only question would be the value of the trade. Not possible to give a quote without seeing the car. If you do the deal definitely go to CarMax first and then to the dealer (and let the dealer know).

The lease price means you are getting about $5K of the value of the credit, which is quite good. Plus in a lease you get all the discounts during the lease term. Likely only 10K miles but you are likely good with that.

 

[notaguru]

OK, gurus...

We have a proposal on a loaded Premier, in the color we want. That car has every gadget known to man including both confidence packages and ACC, leather, anti-traffic levitation system, heated and illuminated everything. We planned to just buy our new car, but the lease rate is very persuasive because we'll drive it less than 10k miles per year. Here are the numbers:

STICKER: $41,695
DISCOUNTS: $11,295
PRICE: $30,400
TRADE: $9,000
CASH: $2,000
LEASE RATE: $74.14 per month, 36 months
REBATES: $7,500 federal tax offset, $1,500 state cash (I didn't even know about that one!)

This looks like an easy decision: what did I miss?

 

[llninja]

OK, gurus...

We have a proposal on a loaded Premier, in the color we want. That car has every gadget known to man including both confidence packages and ACC, leather, anti-traffic levitation system, heated and illuminated everything. We planned to just buy our new car, but the lease rate is very persuasive because we'll drive it less than 10k miles per year. Here are the numbers:

STICKER: $41,695
DISCOUNTS: $11,295
PRICE: $30,400
TRADE: $9,000
CASH: $2,000
LEASE RATE: $74.14 per month, 36 months
REBATES: $7,500 federal tax offset, $1,500 state cash (I didn't even know about that one!)

This looks like an easy decision: what did I miss?

You cannot lease the car and claim the federal tax credit. The finance company gets to claim that credit, and they usually don't give you the full $7500 against your lease. The reason why the lease rate looks so good is because you're putting $11k down on the price of the car - $9K for the trade and $2K cash. so the balance is $19,400 that they are financing. And in 3 years you're giving the car back with no equity at the table and starting all over from scratch.

Are the rebates after that's $19.4k number or are some of them buried in the discounts? If they are not buried in the discounts, then that $19,400 drops down to $10,400. I'd rather pay $10.4k to own a car that I can drive until the wheels fall off than pay $2670 over 3 years then have to go shopping for a new car. So don't think about the low monthly lease rate over the end 3 years. Think about what happens 3-10 years from now. What would you like to be driving, and does this temporary low payment hurt you in the long run.

I like the 100% down, unlimited term, unlimited mile, 0% money factor, $0 per month payment plan.

 

[notaguru]

I've demonstrated my ignorance - we've never leased or financed a car before.

Thanks for the help.

 

[llninja]

I've demonstrated my ignorance - we've never leased or financed a car before.

Thanks for the help.

On the flip side, if you want to always get a new car every 3 years and have lots of disposable income, you could just lease new cars every 3 years to avoid having the hassle of selling it or trading it in. In fact, Steve Jobs leased an indentical Mercedes every 6 months to exploit a California loophole that allowed him to drive without a license plate. He didn't like how the plates ruined the look of the car.

And I'm sure forum member Bacardi will chime in soon and start preaching how wonderful leases are.

I have never leased but have financed. As soon as I realized my stupidity I reached into my savings and paid off two car loans in the same week. I will never finance anything again. I knocked my mortgage balance down to 5 figures and hope to pay that off 15+ years early. Once the mortgage is gone, I'll be considering some seriously nice car purchases and a big barn to hold them all.

 

[jbakerjonathan]

I've demonstrated my ignorance - we've never leased or financed a car before.

Thanks for the help.

Not to worry... I, for the very first (and last) time, leased a 2012. I was a babe-in-the-woods regarding the intricacies of leasing and blythely signed the document. I worried about scratching or damaging the car. I worried about exceeding the mileage limit of 36,000. I loved the car. When it came time to turn in the car, I worried and worried and worried.... until I got the acceptance letter from Ally Bank. I swore never to lease again. Three months later I bought a new 2014 from the same dealer in 2015 for a healthy reduction in price. So, don't worry about being ignorant - that's different from being stupid, 8^)

 

[llninja]

Not to worry... I, for the very first (and last) time, leased a 2012. I was a babe-in-the-woods regarding the intricacies of leasing and blythely signed the document. I worried about scratching or damaging the car. I worried about exceeding the mileage limit of 36,000. I loved the car. When it came time to turn in the car, I worried and worried and worried.... until I got the acceptance letter from Ally Bank. I swore never to lease again. Three months later I bought a new 2014 from the same dealer in 2015 for a healthy reduction in price. So, don't worry about being ignorant - that's different from being stupid, 8^)

Yes, stupid would be leasing a car, realizing it was a mistake, then doing it again. There are many who can afford to lease and like it, then there even more who can't afford it and they do it anyway citing the lower monthly payment, not realizing that they are squandering their retirement nest egg and kid's education funds on their new car habit.

I made the mistake of trading in a newly purchased car in my younger years. When I got home and did the math, I realized I got taken. Never again. Life lesson learned.