[JoeReal]

As more people buy electric cars, it's getting crowded at the existing charging stations. More electric cars are being sold than charging stations being built.

If only GM can include the Voltec into the Bolt, we would be buying it in a heart beat even if it's priced $10K more! The main reason why we don't buy a Tesla, it will never have a range extender. The Chevy Volt is just not comfortable for long distance driving.


http://www.slate.com/articles/busin..._bolt_have_a_huge_infrastructure_problem.html

 

[srmarti]

And plug-ins are less than 1% of vehicles out there. I'd guess it will get worse before it gets better. What the OP seems to be saying is he wants a Voltec SUV or crossover. The topic has come up before.

I drove my Gen 1 on a road trip of about a thousand miles just stopping for food, fuel and restroom. Two senior passengers and the rest loaded with luggage, was still comfortable enough.

 

[Bacardi]

Many Bolt EV fans on here admit the styling is more attractive on the Gen2 Volt than the Bolt EV, that in itself is far more of a problem than charging station infrastructure...We could make the argument that for many, while DCFC can be important for future proofing and should be standard, few may only use it a few times a year...One of the most popular traveled routes in the entire united states is SoCal to Vegas; in favorable weather (I've witnessed 100f and 35f in the same trip) and employing conservative in may be possible to make the trip in a Bolt EV, odds are you can't and you have to worry about charging once you arrive...Strip hotels are now charging for parking, odds are you have to pay to/from DCFC and possible in Vegas...But Southwest & JetBlue constantly have flash sales, it could possibly be cheaper or within 25% of the costs (and this not factoring in wear/tear/mileage depreciation) to drive their Bolt EV to Long Beach where parking is cheap and security is quick, fly and take ubers vs driving a Bolt to Vegas...

Drop either the Voltec or the Bolt EVs drivetrain into an AWD Equinox, follow the footsteps the way that GM EVed the Spark, keep the interior the same as the ICE, keep the steel body the same and it'll sell like hotcakes...Give the thing C1/C2/DCFC standard on all trims, include existing power seats standard on the Premier, make the existing sunroof option standard...The thing would sell like crazy in Cali assuming its priced like the Bolt EV...Certainly possible with the existing steel body, existing interior and $145/kWh...In fact, the new MY18 Equinox is an all new model...If Chevy want scared about it taking sales away, simply EV the previous gen Equinox...All that tooling goes to waste anyways...

 

[ghostgs1]

Have you ever driven a Volt for a long distance? We find our Volts to be very comfortable in long trips.

 

[jsmay311]

As long as you're only talking about people with access to regular overnight charging, the only infrastructure impediment to wider adoption of BEVs is a DCFC network to facilitate long-distance travel.

Tesla has already demonstrated how to do this. If we can follow their blueprint, it's really just a matter of building out the network to a sufficient scale to meet long-distance driving demand.

For apartment dwellers and others without available overnight charging, that will be a tougher nut to crack.

 

[BAZINGA]

A Voltec CUV, how novel. No one here has ever asked for one.

 

[jsmay311]

Also, the article overstates the difficulties of home charging:

"But unless you install special equipment, the batteries sip their juice very slowly, just a few miles of charge per hour. Plug in at night and you’ll return in the morning to find that the car’s range has expanded by only about 30 miles."

You can get 30 miles in a Bolt charging at L1 (120V 12A) in ~6 hours. Most people at home overnight would have maybe 10-14 hours to charge overnight.

And referring to an L2 charger as "special equipment" sounds a lot scarier and more expensive than it is.

 

[DonC]

Drop either the Voltec or the Bolt EVs drivetrain into an AWD Equinox, follow the footsteps the way that GM EVed the Spark, keep the interior the same as the ICE, keep the steel body the same and it'll sell like hotcakes...Give the thing C1/C2/DCFC standard on all trims, include existing power seats standard on the Premier, make the existing sunroof option standard...The thing would sell like crazy in Cali assuming its priced like the Bolt EV...

Yeah, less range and higher cost in a undistinguished body would be a huger winner. The Voltec version would make more sense than a BEV since range would be limited, but the range and performance in the Voltec version would also be limited. GM could integrate the battery pack and the engine as it has done on the CT6, but that option adds costs. The AWD option helps but you're increasing the cost even more by having two motors.

I think the Bolt EV does a great job filling its intended niche. It's a great city car but personally I wouldn't want to use it as a road car.

Also, the article overstates the difficulties of home charging:

+1. Ditto for charging at work BTW.

 

[Bacardi]

As long as you're only talking about people with access to regular overnight charging, the only infrastructure impediment to wider adoption of BEVs is a DCFC network to facilitate long-distance travel.

Tesla has already demonstrated how to do this. If we can follow their blueprint, it's really just a matter of building out the network to a sufficient scale to meet long-distance driving demand.

For apartment dwellers and others without available overnight charging, that will be a tougher nut to crack.

There are differences however:
1. Tesla SCers are faster than most DCFCs which leads to point 2...
2. Many are reporting DCFC time limits, often at 30mins so speed really can matter...
3. SCer membership/registration is a breeze (unless things changed you're forced to create a "master" Tesla account); with DCFC, you have no idea how to pay, some you can pay at charger, sometimes you have to register online or an app before you can charge...
4. Tesla SCer are free for the majority of used and even new includes a free annual amount...DCFC pricing can vary wildly with $5+ "connection fees" especially at standalone in route locations becoming the norm...

Overall point being just building more DCFCs isn't by itself the solution...Faster chargers, the vehicles ability to accept faster charges and membership/payment standardization are also very important...

 

[JoeReal]

And plug-ins are less than 1% of vehicle out there. I'd guess it will get worse before it gets better. What the OP seems to be saying is he wants a Voltec SUV or crossover...

You got half of it alright. But the main reason is the same with the article. There isn't any good fast recharging infrastructure yet, that is why we need the Voltec on the more popular vehicles. When the DCFC is ubiquitous now, we would be buying the Chevy Bolt. It takes a while for these fast charging infrastructure to be established, and it could be a long time especially under Trump.

 

[JoeReal]

Also, the article overstates the difficulties of home charging:

"But unless you install special equipment, the batteries sip their juice very slowly, just a few miles of charge per hour. Plug in at night and you’ll return in the morning to find that the car’s range has expanded by only about 30 miles."

You can get 30 miles in a Bolt charging at L1 (120V 12A) in ~6 hours. Most people at home overnight would have maybe 10-14 hours to charge overnight.

And referring to an L2 charger as "special equipment" sounds a lot scarier and more expensive than it is.

That was a valid concern though. First, not all the existing 110V outlets are safe to handle 12A for a prolonged period of time. Second is that the EVSE aren't cheap. And if you need a 220 V line and it isn't in your garage, you're in for a lot of expenses.

The term Special Equipment or Electric Vehicle Service Equipment sound equally scary.

 

[JoeReal]

As for us, we don't really have a problem charging at home. We have added a 14-50 NEMA RV outlet in the garage for an additional $200 when the house was being built. All I needed was an adapter to the existing OEM EVSE that came with the Volt to plug it in to our 240V line or the 14-50 NEMA outlet. I can maximize the charging for Chevy Bolt as well. We have two separate 240V circuits with their own breakers at the main panel, the other one was free. So the Chevy Bolt would be okay to use only as a commuting car.

Today if you add a 240V line into your existing garage, the installation would be in the upwards of $3,000 without the EVSE.

 

[volt spain]

Since most EV charge at home, and rapid charging stations are rare, the real RANGE of the BOLT is just around 100 miles, enough to come back home to recharge...the day that a regular GAS STATION will have ELECTRIC STATION, then we can say range is 230-300 miles...Similar situation happened in the 70's with DIESEL, very few gas stations had diesel...Today most of them have it. The situation with Tesla is not that different, looking for the SUPERCHARGER is a pain in the neck !!!.

 

[Bacardi]

Yeah, less range and higher cost in a undistinguished body would be a huger winner. The Voltec version would make more sense than a BEV since range would be limited, but the range and performance in the Voltec version would also be limited. GM could integrate the battery pack and the engine as it has done on the CT6, but that option adds costs. The AWD option helps but you're increasing the cost even more by having two motors.

I think the Bolt EV does a great job filling its intended niche. It's a great city car but personally I wouldn't want to use it as a road car.

+1. Ditto for charging at work BTW.

Virtually every AWD/4WD ICE vehicle has one motor, even the VIA (Chevy Truck or Van), currently fleet only...The 4WD pickup truck has one EV motor to drive all the wheels...

http://www.viamotors.com/powertrain/

Chevy actually services VIA vehicles so they probably know already how to do it...

 

[Coppersnowboarder]

Judging from the steep losses that I have taken on my few shares of solar electric stocks since Trump took office, I doubt that the big infrastructure bill is going to do much to expand electric vehicle charging stations.

 

[Bacardi]

As for us, we don't really have a problem charging at home.

I may do a poll, but what I've stumbled upon in EV-Land is there are so few households who own EVs only, in fact 51% of the random data I've stumbled is that for many EV owners they own a second car...

The Bolt EV is basically uncharted territory, many call it affordable, many call it expensive but it has the best mile per dollar range out there...Before it, outside of the expensive Tesla, for a pure EV, you rarely got over 100 miles of range...There just isn't that many data points for a 238 mile EV...Folks may have bought the Bolt EV for a commuter and a year from now determine they really don't need their ICE vehicle...If the stat is still true that 55% lease PHEV/EVs, we'll have a fairly long time for chronic leasers are able to get into the Bolt as for the most part only 2014 3 year leasers and 2015 2 year leasers are coming off their leases...Also while if you live out of state where you cannot get a Bolt EV, you can find a way to buy one, yet leasing out of state on the other hand is pretty much impossible outside of somehow establishing a bonus residency...We sort of have to sit back for the rest of the year to see what the datapoints are with charging at home and DCFC...

Since most EV charge at home, and rapid charging stations are rare, the real RANGE of the BOLT is just around 100 miles, enough to come back home to recharge...the day that a regular GAS STATION will have ELECTRIC STATION, then we can say range is 230-300 miles...Similar situation happened in the 70's with DIESEL, very few gas stations had diesel...Today most of them have it. The situation with Tesla is not that different, looking for the SUPERCHARGER is a pain in the neck !!!.

Tesla for a while has had SCers built into navigation/trip planning, Musk touted this would end range anxiety, but ultimately range anxiety isn't as widespread as people think...The Bolt EV supposedly will add charging stations to its Navigation at some point...I personally do not see gas stations mass adopting charging stations; there will be some partnerships, perhaps some local governments will require them at all highway rest stops and individual owners may install them...It just doesn't fit their model to hang out there for 30mins+ and promote EV ownership...Now if charging speeds drastically improve to 10mins or less, I could see it happening...

 

[Slotracer577]

From racing in the Rc world, at the start standard charge rates were 1c, so an hour to charge. Now we do 4-5c charge rates which would give quick recharge times, but it comes at the expense of battery life. We don't care that much because batteries are cheap and they get replaced every 20-50 charge cycles when performance drops off. Not really possible on a Bolt where packs are 1000s, not 10s of dollars. Even if the charger network is in place, I am not sure batteries will like repeat high charge rates.

 

[saghost]

As more people buy electric cars, it's getting crowded at the existing charging stations. More electric cars are being sold than charging stations being built.

If only GM can include the Voltec into the Bolt, we would be buying it in a heart beat even if it's priced $10K more! The main reason why we don't buy a Tesla, it will never have a range extender. The Chevy Volt is just not comfortable for long distance driving.


http://www.slate.com/articles/busin..._bolt_have_a_huge_infrastructure_problem.html

I'm surprised VW hasn't come up yet. One of the consequences of "Dieselgate" is that VW now has a legal obligation to spend a fortune on EV charging stations, both in California and nationwide. If that is done correctly, it should form the backbone of a Supercharger type network for CCS cars over the next few years.

Destination chargers really aren't expensive - ~$500 per EVSE and maybe the same for installation. If the burgeoning ranks of EV owners make it clear to hotels and restaurants and malls that having one will draw a lot more if the owner's business to them, the business will install charging.

Of course, Tesla is committed to the change, so they offer the EVSEs to businesses free with a few conditions, and even pay to have them installed in some cases. If other OEMs really cared they could, too...

 

[Sean Nelson]

Many Bolt EV fans on here admit the styling is more attractive on the Gen2 Volt than the Bolt EV, that in itself is far more of a problem than charging station infrastructure.

For some people. For others, such as myself, the hatchback form factor of the Bolt is much more preferable than the Volt's liftback. And don't forget that the style has direct ramifications on the utility of the vehicle - I was all set to buy a Volt until I tried to stuff myself into the rear seat and tried to peer out the rear window. Those deficiencies, imposed by the Volt's style, are what caused me to wait for the Bolt.

 

[Bacardi]

For some people. For others, such as myself, the hatchback form factor of the Bolt is much more preferable than the Volt's liftback. And don't forget that the style has direct ramifications on the utility of the vehicle - I was all set to buy a Volt until I tried to stuff myself into the rear seat and tried to peer out the rear window. Those deficiencies, imposed by the Volt's style, are what caused me to wait for the Bolt.

Like I said in another thread, probably the largest factor is the front end which includes the extreme rake which it shares with the Spark and Sonic hatchback...There are hatchbacks that look great, anything German for example...Heck, even the Cruze hatchback looks pretty good...