[baragona]

In looking at the Carrier deal, Trump is giving Carrier a $7 million tax break to keep 1000 jobs in the US (while still outsourcing another 1000 jobs).

In other words, the Gov't is literally paying $7000 for each job Carrier keeps in the US.

Meanwhile, the EV tax break is $7500 per vehicle and helps create thousands of jobs at multiple automakers, decreases the use of foreign oil, and helps reduce pollution and greenhouse gas emissions.

Seems to me, that is a more more effective use of $7K.......

 

[MrEnergyCzar]

I thought only 800 of the 2100 jobs will remain or 38%.

 

[Joe67]

In looking at the Carrier deal, Trump is giving Carrier a $7 million tax break to keep 1000 jobs in the US (while still outsourcing another 1000 jobs).

In other words, the Gov't is literally paying $7000 for each job Carrier keeps in the US.

Meanwhile, the EV tax break is $7500 per vehicle and helps create thousands of jobs at multiple automakers, decreases the use of foreign oil, and helps reduce pollution and greenhouse gas emissions.

Seems to me, that is a more more effective use of $7K.......

This should really be posted here: http://gm-volt.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?5-Politics-Finance-and-Environment

 

[Qinsp]

Carrier now makes ultra efficient heat pump machines. It's sort of a Green company, but not in the Gimme $500 million in taxes to build a factory with no product type of Green.

 

[no fumes]

There is much debate and much division over whether this is a good use of taxpayer dollars, and yes, also how many jobs actually "saved" by this corporate handout.
You won't get argument from me that the federal tax credit for EV is a good idea and creates jobs,(but then I benefited from it, and my philosophy is that cleaner cars are better for the world). If you are a climate science denier, you see it differently.
As far as Trump giving Carrier a tax break, remember that the State of Indiana is doing this. Pence is still their sitting Governor.

 

[baragona]

I thought only 800 of the 2100 jobs will remain or 38%.

I rounded up....

I remember Trump threatening a 35% tariff on all Carrier equipment shipped from Mexico. I guess that's gone too.....

 

[baragona]

As far as Trump giving Carrier a tax break, remember that the State of Indiana is doing this. Pence is still their sitting Governor.

Trump is taking credit for the deal, so he owns it....

 

[baragona]

This should really be posted here: http://gm-volt.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?5-Politics-Finance-and-Environment

Thanks

Was looking for that forum section. I guess didn't scroll down far enough.....

 

[mr_raider]

Carrier now makes ultra efficient heat pump machines. It's sort of a Green company, but not in the Gimme $500 million in taxes to build a factory with no product type of Green.

So does Lennox, Trane, Daikin/AMana, and Mitsubishi. Ultra efficient heat pumps are the norm in this market segment, and have been for a decade.

 

[AZ EV Driver]

I thought only 800 of the 2100 jobs will remain or 38%.

At least until the robots take their jobs from them. It's the only way the cost of "work" will be competitive. Time for retraining classes.

VIN # B0985

 

[kns]

Headcount can be manipulated. Give a little here and take a little there. It is absolutely impossible to monitor/enforce how many of "those jobs" remain in the US.

But breaking down the numbers, it appears that $7M for 1000 jobs over 10 years is $700/worker/year subsidy for Carrier. Assuming an average work year of 2000 hours that equals roughly $0.35 per hour.

Labor cost differences across the US/Mexican border are a lot greater than that. Something else is going on below the radar or under the table, as you prefer.

KNS

 

[Just_Jon]

... Something else is going on below the radar or under the table, as you prefer.

KNS

Carrier's parent company, UT gets 10% of it's $50 billion annual revenue from the federal gov't.
It is good business to suck up to your largest customer.

 

[bjrosen]

What the EV credit and the Carrier deal have in common is that they are both political but the objectives are different. The Carrier agreement is about the illusion of saving jobs, the EV credit is about the environment. The Carrier deal is relatively cheap as these things go but in the long run those jobs will either be automated away or UT will decide to sell or shutdown Carrier and the new owner will shut the factory. The EV tax credit was designed to jump start the electric car industry. I doubt it had much effect on Tesla, $7.5K off of a $100K car isn't that significant but I have no doubt it significantly helped GM, the 10K (Fed + State) credit moves the Volt into the Chevy price range, without it you are looking at selling a Chevy for an Audi price which is a much harder sell. The wise thing in the EV law is that it has a sunset clause built in, i.e. it stops after 200K cars, unlike most of these programs that go on forever like the ethanol mandate. The unknowable is if it accelerated the development of EVs by more than a few years. Tesla has 350K pre-orders for the Model 3 and few or none of those cars will receive the EV tax credit.

One final thought, the OP claimed that the EV credit created jobs, it didn't. EVs cost jobs. They are simpler to build than ICE cars and they require less maintenance. A BEV never visits a gas station, it requires no oil changes, never needs a tune up, has no transmission to fail, needs half as many brake jobs, electric motors are less likely to fail than an ICE. Put that all together and that's a lot of jobs that go away.