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The banned V word still doesn't work

9K views 61 replies 18 participants last post by  llninja 
#1 · (Edited)
A few months ago idleup published a few controversial threads that all got closed. Still, I was curious and tried to do V----ing to see if it could indeed gain range using mountains mode. But back in Feb, it was cold and I had horrible results. Over the past few days, my daughter had several out of town track meets (she got 1st place at conference, but 6th in sectionals) which gave me the perfect conditions to try v---ing again in warmer weather. It still doesn't work. At 60 mph, 65 mph, or 70 mph the battery miles generated just don't cause the MPG number to move anywhere above my normal 35-38 mpg. When using ice, the trip odometer would show 18-22 mpg when doing the mountain mode run, then start to climb to around 35-38 mpg as I deplete the battery and I return to mountain mode.

Temps were between 65-75 degrees. Next test will be this summer under ideal EV conditions
 
#6 ·
Or better stated as "in before the lock"
 
#4 ·
From my experience, you can truly game how many electric miles your car will show on very long trips. My Volt is a 2012. Here is how to do it. Don't let the car fully use the battery at any time. Start out in MM and use the battery down to where the engine starts to be used. Then, at opportune times, switch between MM and normal. For example, when going down long hills, switch to normal and don't use MM. Do this at other times when you know the car will coast. It is a lot of fun and you can eek out many miles out of the battery. Use what you think you gained coasting in normal, then switch back to MM. For example, it is not uncommon for me to show 75 miles out of the battery only when messing around like this; HOWEVER, it is all a wash. I will still use the same amount of fuel over my trip. It is fun to see so many battery miles though, but it does not save me any fuel. I have done this many times when we go to Dollywood (amusement park in Tennessee), and for us, Dollywood is about 300 miles round trip. Playing around like this does not help or hurt fuel economy when done correctly, but it is fun, and adds many miles to the electric total.
 
#5 ·
Well, flat Illinois has no hills. I really don't have any interest in causing the EV numbers to show an insane level, just trying to see if V----ing actually can gain a few MPG. But I'm finding the same thing as you, it doesn't make any difference in actual MPG. I actually let the battery get down to zero, then grow back to halfway, and it all gets counted as ice miles. The MPG on the trip odometer is what I'm using to gauge whether this works or not.
 
#12 ·
From my experience, you can truly game how many electric miles your car will show on very long trips. My Volt is a 2012. Here is how to do it. Don't let the car fully use the battery at any time. Start out in MM and use the battery down to where the engine starts to be used. Then, at opportune times, switch between MM and normal. For example, when going down long hills, switch to normal and don't use MM. Do this at other times when you know the car will coast. It is a lot of fun and you can eek out many miles out of the battery. Use what you think you gained coasting in normal, then switch back to MM. For example, it is not uncommon for me to show 75 miles out of the battery only when messing around like this.
The 2011/2012 Volts had a programming glitch that resulted in the counting of MM-recharged battery miles as electric miles if you switched to MM before the battery was fully depleted, allowed the system to recharge your battery, then switched back to Normal mode.

What you might not have noticed is that the kWh Used number did not start increasing again until you drove some distance down the road (i.e., not until the battery soc had dropped to where it was when you switched to MM).
 
#15 ·
You are 100% correct in what you state, and in reality it doesn't really matter how the Volt counts the miles. What matters is how much gas you use in total no matter how the kWh meters counts it. I have driven that "DollyWood" trip many, many times as we always get season passes and the kids love it. No matter how I try to game the system I always use about the same amount of gas which is usually spot on about 5.5 gallons if we don't make any side runs. This is whether my Volt shows 40 miles electric or 75 miles electric on the 300 mile trip. I still use the same amount of gas ;)

Note, this is not driving on the highway, this is driving on rural mountain roads which is much more fun in the Volt :)
 
#7 ·
I think the only plausible way for MM to help efficiency is if it indeed allows deeper dips than hold, without revving up.
i.e. up a hill it keeps the revs locked and uses battery to boost (and recharges on the way down) whereas in hold it would up the revs to max
I will test this one on the next cottage run (tons of hills along the way).
But starting and stopping doesn't seem any more useful in my mind, and I'm really not surprised at your findings.

tldr;
IBTL
 
#9 ·
So maybe the fact I have no hills is causing V---ing to not work for me. IL is soooo flat.

I've wondered fro quite some time whether a hold+ mode might be useful, where the ICE does what it does in hold mode, but when you do some regen, it stores it rather than uses it to take you back to the level before your pressed hold. Better yet, it uses just a bit more ICE to generate just a little more electricity to fill the battery. It would be nice to drive 300 miles and slowly fill your battery back all the way to 100% on the guessometer.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Life is complicated enough, so when I drive there are two numbers of interest that I can compute from information provided by the Volt – miles/kWh (electric) and mpg (gas). My goal is to maximize both these values without trying to spend too much time playing with the buttons and not hypermiling. However, if there is something to gain by V----ing, then perhaps I will try it, but will let you guys do the testing/confirmation.
 
#11 ·
It looks like basic physics. In simple terms there's no such thing as a free lunch. My theory is the best gas mileage for road trips all else being equal, is to use hold mode with 50% or better battery charge. My experience has been my mpg has exceeded that reported while V---ing.
 
#13 ·
It is unclear if MM is anything more than a variant of Hold mode where the computer, not the driver, selects the battery soc to be "held." Is there any technical documentation available that even suggests the propulsion system operates differently in MM than in Hold mode at that approximate soc? If Hold mode had been available in the 2011/2012 Volts, would there have been any need for MM? Could the manual have stated: "Driving in Mountains: Select Hold mode when at least 4 bars of power are still available, or stop to recharge, before driving up mountainous roads, to avoid degraded performance."

Mountain Mode is designed to "reserve" a specific amount of battery power for use in case additional power is needed under high-power-demand conditions, such as driving up steep roads (hence: "Mountain" mode). The ability to charge a depleted battery back up to the MM-maintained soc, if needed, instead of requiring the driver to stop and plug into the grid to recharge, is a "feature" of MM, not its purpose, and cannot be turned off by the driver.

The time frame and extra gas needed to recharge the battery using MM seem to be independent of the speed of the car (say, when driving on level ground). Perhaps one should just drive fast when MM is recharging (i.e., run up as many miles as possible during the short amount of trip duration when gas is actually being used) any then drive slow while using this recharged battery power (i.e., driving slow increases the distance you can drive on that amount of recharged power, increasing the Gas Miles total number for the MPGcs calculations, and the slow speed increases the percentage of driving time when the ICE is not running).
 
#18 ·
It is unclear if MM is anything more than a variant of Hold mode where the computer, not the driver, selects the battery soc to be "held."
Or, keeping with the timeline as introduced, Hold is nothing but MM with a flexible set point and a REALLY clumsy method of setting that point. I mean, if you could actually dial in the number of bars you wanted Hold to sit at, that'd make MM essentially moot. As it is, there's no way to tell Hold Mode "I want 40% reserve" if you're at 20% already.

Unless you kick it into MM, that is. Kind of out of luck if you want 60% or something, though.
 
#14 · (Edited)
You know, all these games would become moot if GM just gave us an optional battery expansion pack to achieve 100 miles of Ev range. I would drive it like I stole it every day and not worry about losing a little range since I have more than enough to make my 50 mile round trip without hitting the Dino juice. Tesla has been selling multiple battery sizes for years, why won't GM? Even the bolt can be outfitted with an economy and an XL battery for those who just want to push there cars to eleven.

http://youtu.be/uMSV4OteqBE
 
#17 ·
. Tesla has been selling multiple battery sizes for years, why won't GM?
I can think of several reasons why GM did not offer the option of different energy batteries. First, the Volt is a PHEV and not a BEV. If you need more range, use gas and the oil industry will thank you and GM. Second, GM is an old entrenched, legacy auto company that was bailed out by the taxpayers. They didn’t want to add more financial risk to the Volt by offering battery options. Third, they are not based in Silicon Valley where “thinking outside the box” and risk-taking are the norm. So if its new/novel, then its worth considering.
 
#28 ·
It is interesting that lininja’s data suggests that, under some conditions, charging with mountain mode and then driving off the charge may not burn extra gas. There are times when I might want to store some charge, but not have grid access. Like if I need mountain mode for climbing, but already have a depleted battery. Or if I want some electric range for quiet stop and go driving during an extended trip. Good to know that I might be able to do that without paying much of a gas penalty. Not something I would want to mess with regularly, though.
 
#43 · (Edited)
The Car that went from NY to LA in 26 hours 28 minutes
“I’ll always love my E39 M5, but in light of the lessons of Bolian’s 2013 run, it was clear that technology had moved past 144A’s ability – regardless of modification – to break 28:50. Also, everyone knows the car, and I couldn’t risk it being recognized by a cop who reads Jalopnik or watches /Drive. A long search ensued. I called upon everyone I trusted to help analyze the performance and fuel economy of every appropriate car. To quote the wonderful intro monologue from the video game Homeworld, ‘the clans were united…[this] would demand new technologies…and new sacrifices.’ Bolian and Black had set an incredible time. An incredible car was needed. An utterly innocuous-looking car. A car that would become the ultimate Q-car for a new generation. And I found it in Polizei 144i: a highly modified 2014 Infiniti Q50, unquestionably the finest illegal cross-country race car ever constructed.”

“Clearly, anyone who knows me knows that, whatever I do, good, bad, home, work, in, out, I must go all the way. Since going sober (Roy entered a program two years ago and achieved sobriety, much to my relief and the relief of others) and finding my faith, I recommitted to setting a new bar. Adding a second steering position and GT-R driveline to the Q50, well, that was just the beginning.

A short but incomplete list of upgrades & extra equipment.

Driveline Swap-out w/2014 Nissan GT-R
654 Horsepower on Mild Tune, 850+ on Full Boost
55 Gallon Fuel Cell for Total 75 Gallon E85 Capacity w/Twin Feeds
Range: 1000-1200 miles
Duplicate Steering Wheel/Pedal Set in Front Passenger Seat For On-The-Fly Driver Swaps
Custom Ceiling-Mounted, Electrically-Actuated, Gyro-Stabilized Observation System w/Roof Pass-Through, including Helmet w/FLIR & LL Overlay to Optics For Rear Passenger
Custom Magnetorheological Self-Leveling Suspension System
Brembo Carbon Ceramic brakes
3x FLIR Night Vision cameras
4x Low-Light Video Cameras
2x Vertex Air-to-Ground Radios
1x Aircraft Proximity Warning System
3x Valentine 1 Radar/Laser Detectors
1x Custom-Built Laser Diffuser/Jammer System (Front/Rear)
5x Garmin GPS Units with XM Traffic
4x iPhone 6 Cradles & Chargers
2x iPad Air Cradles & Chargers
2x iPad Mini 3 Cradles & Chargers
3x Satellite Tracking Devices
2x Uniden Police Scanners w/External Antennas
2x Uniden CB Radio
2x Chemical Smoke Generators
Radar-Absorbent Paint
Anti-Laser Headlight Coating

“For the record, the car is owned, registered and insured through an offshore company in the Channel Islands whose shareholders must remain anonymous, for obvious reasons. It will, however, be on display at several auto shows this year, starting with the Greenwich Concours d’Elegance on May 30th. It will also be participating in the hill climb at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in late June. Maybe.”

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...nutes-gt-r-powered-dual-control-infiniti-q50/

Notice the speeds indicated in the GPS device...
 
#44 ·
The Tesla LA->NYC Cannonball record is a leisurely 57 hours, 48 minutes - much of it on autopilot. However since then, a couple of new superchargers have been added in Pennsylvania which would save some significant miles over the previous route. So the EV record is definitely breakable.
 
#45 ·
Getting back to the original topic, I think idleups main interest in MM was _not_ ultimate fuel efficiency. It was merely maximizing the number of miles driven in pure EV. Not the same thing. That is - if you have to run in CS because the battery is at zero, why not just run MM to bring the battery back up to 40% (or 20% in Gen 2) at the same time. Then you can switch back to Normal and run it in quiet EV again. Rinse, repeat.
 
#54 ·
ICE still has its believers...:rolleyes:
 
#56 · (Edited)
Gathering Of 60 Ferrari F40s Smashes World Record At Silverstone in 2012 to celebrate the F40 25th Anniversary, the Ferrari Owners’ Club of Great Britain has smashed their former 2007 record.

Just as they had done for the F40’s 20th birthday back in 2007, F40 owners from all over the globe descended upon the British circuit, with their cars in tow, and attended the Silverstone Classic with a total of 40 F40s present.

The Ferrari F40 was built for only two years, during which time a total of 1,315 examples were built, and most are believed to be still in existence.
 
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