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Discussion Starter #1
2017 with leather package.

This was a short test drive. The plastic was still on the seats, just off the truck on Saturday.

Pros

Diesel knock is absent, just as advertised.
9 speed automatic shifts smoothly - double clutch technology works. You have to get on the "oil" to make it downshift forcibly enough to feel it.
Stop-start technology.
Diesel torque + 9 speeds - pretty good acceleration

Cons
Low pitch engine rumble is always there - in no way is this silent propulsion.


Normally I would go with the Volt but the choice is not so clearcut here. There's zero state incentives, I'd have to buy the Volt and get 0% financing to go along with a modest amount of manufacturer's incentives. Even with the fed tax credit it's stretching to make the number close enough.
 

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What about a used 2016 Volt? Picked one up here in western North Carolina back in January for $21k. That's a few thousand less than the MSRP of a new Cruze Diesel and you'll get 53 electric miles and 42-mpg when running on much cheaper regular gas rather than the more expensive diesel fuel.

Plus don't you have to pay for that after treatment refill on occasion? I can't see how the math can work out in the Cruze Diesel's favor.

The Volt even beats it in performance, Volt = 149 HP / 294 Torque, Cruze Diesel = 137 HP / 240 Torque.

What am I missing here?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
What about a used 2016 Volt? Picked one up here in western North Carolina back in January for $21k. That's a few thousand less than the MSRP of a new Cruze Diesel and you'll get 53 electric miles and 42-mpg when running on much cheaper regular gas rather than the more expensive diesel fuel.

Plus don't you have to pay for that after treatment refill on occasion? I can't see how the math can work out in the Cruze Diesel's favor.

The Volt even beats it in performance, Volt = 149 HP / 294 Torque, Cruze Diesel = 137 HP / 240 Torque.

What am I missing here?
Answers
There are no 2016 Volts here - Michigan didn't get Gen 2 until well after the 2017 rollout started.
Diesel is marginally more expensive per gallon than regular (here) and occasionally the prices invert - diesel is cheaper.
Cruze looks to be about 600 lbs lighter than a Volt. Hence less hp needed.
This car is right out the factory and the salesman was sitting next to me so I didn't do anything zesty with the loud pedal other than force the tranny to downshift just to get a feel of the smoothness of shifting.
 

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Do we know what the official EPA / mpg figures are for the new 2017-18 Cruze diesel?

I still think it pretty hard to beat the 2016-17 Volt, and with the Fed Tax Credit, $7,500, along with any state tax credits / rebates, can bring the price down to $20,000 or so, maybe even less in some cases.

Even running just on good ole 87 octane our 2016 Volt still delivered over 48 mpg, just on the gas engine, on a recent 235 mile round trip, another 60 miles on electric....

Diesel is also anywhere from .10 to .20 cents more per gallon than 87 octane.
 

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Diesel is also anywhere from .10 to .20 cents more per gallon than 87 octane.
But diesel will return much better MPG along with many other benefits with the only downsides are entry price and difficulty deleting the destructive emissions system.
 

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It really depends on what is most important to you...

Diesel
Pros - fantastic range and highway efficiency, engines tend to last forever, torquey drive
Cons - urea refills, continued complete dependence on oil, expensive high pressure injections systems, emissions worse than gas

Volt
Pros - silent/fun electric drive, very low gas consumption depending on usage, respectable efficiency when on gas
Cons - expensive Voltec parts once out of warranty, compact car, need a plug at home (apartment/city living difficult)

If I was a travelling salesmen, I'd maybe lean towards a diesel. I used to really want one, but got tired of waiting for the ones I liked to come out (Mazda 6 diesel wagon, never came out in US), and then I tried my friend's Volt. Most of us here find electric propulsion rather addictive, it would be hard to go back. Good luck with your choice!
 

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There is a couple more issues with diesels.

Not all gas stations have diesel pumps, and sometimes you must wait because gas cars have taken the 1 or 2 diesel pumps, even when the other 7 pumps are empty.

Fuel filters must be changed on a routine basis.

Turbochargers often have a shorter warranty than the engine does. Read your warranty carefully.

Diesel fuel can 'gel' when it gets really cold, and this will strand you.

I love our diesels, but there are some drawbacks over gas engines. Their big advantage is that they are not hurt as bad by high output use. Heavy payloads, high speeds, mountains, high altitudes, see a small loss of MPG than you see in gas engines. Turbo diesels love high altitude compared to naturally aspirated gas cars.

That being said, the Volts are a better fit for our family. Gas is everywhere, but for normal driving we seldom use gas anyways.
 

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I hate to be near a running diesel, let alone own one.
having owned two TDI VWs recently I don't see why. You could sit behind it when running and only feel warm air, not a smell at all. Gasoline engines produce a noticeable scent when running, catalytic converter and all.

with regards to be big VW TDI screw up, oddly even at their worst levels they were far far cleaner than any model from 2009 or before
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I did some more reading online and perused the owners manual.

Emissions - the car meets Tier 3 Bin 125 standard (whatever that is). That I think is the 2025 standard so it's way ahead of the curve.
If you run low on the DEF, the car will first warn you, then as the tank nears empty, will reduce propulsion to 65 mph, 55 mph, till eventually it's 4! mph. Basically you can't ignore the NOx reduction system without consequences.

EPA rating is 31 city 47 highway with automatic. Based on my experience with Chevy cars I'd expect 50 at a steady 70 mph after break-in. By big city standards my traffic at worst would be considered "light to moderate" so I think I would average 40ish.
 

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This is a good comparison summary of gas vs. Diesel pollutants:

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Gas and Diesel are both derived from the same substance, oil pumped out of the ground.

Gas requires more refinement, and thus has a greater impact in the creation of pollution during its production. On the other side, Diesel requires less refinement, and when contrasted with gas, causes less contamination during refinement. Both gas and Diesel make an ecological impact during the production process.



The six fundamental contaminates discharged by gas and Diesel vehicles are:


  1. Carbon Dioxide - Diesel vehicles, compared with gas vehicles, emit less CO2 in light of the fact that diesel vehicles expend less fuel. CO2 is (allegedly) the fundamental driver for a worldwide temperature alteration.
  2. Carbon Monoxide - Diesel engines produce no CO. Gas engines produce CO. This is a deadly, toxic substance that poisons the central nervous system, causes coronary disease and general feeling of weakness and/or nausea.
  3. Nitrogen Oxide - Nitrogen is one of the primary components of air. However, when exposed to high temperatures and pressures, it binds with oxygen to form nitrous oxide. Diesel engines discharge this to a greater degree. Dentists use NO (laughing gas) to ease tension and stress in some patients. In low doses it simply causes a feeling of euphoria. In very high doses it can cause death due to asphyxia. This is not generally a concern with Diesel or gas vehicles.
  4. Hydrocarbons - Benzene is transmitted considerably more by gas engines because it is added to gas during production. This is a known cancer-causing agent. Inhalation can lead to drowsiness, dizziness, headaches, tremors, confusion, and/or unconsciousness. In extreme cases, inhaling or swallowing very high levels of benzene can be deadly.
  5. Suspended Particulate Matter - These are the small particles of ash suspended in the exhaust. Diesel engines emit more of this matter. These are cancer-causing in nature and can cause respiratory issues.
  6. Lead - Emitted from older gas vehicles and airplanes. Influences the central nervous system, kidneys and heart.
Diesel vehicles emit more: nitrogen oxides, suspended particulate matter.
Gas vehicles emit more: carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, lead.
 

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For the technically inclined here is an explanation of Tier 3

www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_t3.php
One thing I have learned is to never own a diesel automatic.

You ruin the diesel unless you run it through a good old 5 or 6 mt

New diesel chevies come with a stick for a reason, don't waste your time learning the reason through experience.

Just buy the manual off the bat and smile
 

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One thing I have learned is to never own a diesel automatic.

You ruin the diesel unless you run it through a good old 5 or 6 mt

New diesel chevies come with a stick for a reason, don't waste your time learning the reason through experience.

Just buy the manual off the bat and smile
Chevrolet and GMC discontinued the stick shift Duramax 6.6L powertrains long, long ago. And when they were around, the manual trans engines were derated to lower torque and hp. The 5 and 6 speed Allison transmissions could take way more abuse than the manual trans or clutch could. It is not unusual for an Allison to over 100,000 miles towing at stock HP levels if you replace the spin-on filter and change the oil as recommended. I think at least one guy went over 250,000 miles IIRC.

Love that Allison. My race truck pushes 936rwhp through an Allison 6-sp. Enough torque to destroy any light truck manual trans instantly. So much torque is available that I detune it to hold it at no more than 1500ftlb to save the drivetrain and crankshaft.
 

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Chevrolet and GMC discontinued the stick shift Duramax 6.6L powertrains long, long ago. And when they were around, the manual trans engines were derated to lower torque and hp. The 5 and 6 speed Allison transmissions could take way more abuse than the manual trans or clutch could. It is not unusual for an Allison to over 100,000 miles towing at stock HP levels if you replace the spin-on filter and change the oil as recommended. I think at least one guy went over 250,000 miles IIRC.

Love that Allison. My race truck pushes 936rwhp through an Allison 6-sp. Enough torque to destroy any light truck manual trans instantly. So much torque is available that I detune it to hold it at no more than 1500ftlb to save the drivetrain and crankshaft.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/695811129/overview/

MT Diesel is priced quite competitively, in a few years maybe my road trip car will become a diesel.
Will have to test drive it to see if I can get 70+mpg like I did with the old TDIs

Anyway...

An Allison is Durable but when I converted my diesel truck from auto to a manual my city FE doubled, highway improved as well and my acceleration was better. True I was lucky if I even had 200hp but the difference was night and day better.
Near the end I had a 30mpg full size diesel truck, hard to do that using an auto.

That said I wasn't even talking a truck, the car certainly won't have an Allison (or anything close) automatic diesels suck, plain waste of a perfectly good car to cripple it with a 9 speed, cvt or whatever autotragic you want to throw at it. 10-20% lost off the top, especially at cold temps and no early shifts putting around town. (Hence the pathetic city rating that you probably won't reach in the auto and easily beat with the stick)
 

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Is your driving pattern mostlly urban stop and go? That scenario heavily favors Evs. Even though diesels claim excellent urban mileage, a Volt can get almost infinite mileage in city driving depending on your useage pattern.

More info on your commute would help.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Is your driving pattern mostlly urban stop and go? That scenario heavily favors Evs. Even though diesels claim excellent urban mileage, a Volt can get almost infinite mileage in city driving depending on your useage pattern.

More info on your commute would help.
Typically nothing like urban stop and go and I do some long driving trips - my GEN I lifetime mpg was 70 ish when I turned it in. I'm going to have to do some work on the Volt price.. I'll pay some delta over conventional for the EV but only so much.
 
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