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Discussion Starter #1
IF Tesla's upcoming Sedan in 2010 would look similar in form to the original concept Chevy Volt, but sold for $60K and a range of 6 times better than Chevy Volt, I would go for it instead of the Volt.

Unless of course GM will start producing the original Concept Chevy Volt body, than it would give me second thoughts, even more... But if Tesla's sedan will look like another Prius, I'm sticking with the Volt.


Tesla to open plant for Model S electric sedan

Tesla Motors on Wednesday is expected to announce a planned $250 million investment in a facility in San Jose, Calif., to manufacture its Model S all-electric luxury sedan.

The company plans to break ground on the installation next summer and begin to deliver cars in late 2010, a company representative said Tuesday. It has scheduled a news conference for Wednesday to detail the move.

...The San Jose operation will house a factory, research, and development center, and become Tesla corporate headquarters, the representative said.

The plant will be capable of turning out 15,000 Model S sedans a year, which can be ramped up to 30,000 units, she added.

The Model S will be a five-person luxury car with a range of 240 miles per battery charge. The projected cost is about $60,000.

....

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10043733-54.html?tag=mncol;title
 

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but

you'll have to replace the bettery every 5-6 years at your own expense if the batteries they are using are the same as the roadster. Those batteries will probably cost you at least 20-30k.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Certainly, no one can prevent them from having a contract with A123 or BYD, or even with GM's upcoming batteries (if GM succeeds). The Sedan wouldn't be designed for extreme acceleration like the Tesla, so I don't think they would use the same battery.
 

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Step back and look what is happening, its starting, its a new beginning, I'm really excited, its not here yet but you can see its coming----------NO PLUG NO SALE----
 

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The Sedan wouldn't be designed for extreme acceleration like the Tesla, so I don't think they would use the same battery.
I think the extreme acceleration of the Tesla has more to do with the low weight of the car than the batteries. The batteries in the sedan will no doubt be of much higher quality than the Tesla's hodgepodge of laptop batteries.
 

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I don't think so

I don't think that Tesla's Sedan will be a serious competitor to the Volt. First of all it will not be in the same class as the Volt. The proposed Tesla Sedan is being tauted as a luxury class car sold for around $60K. The Volt is a Sedan which will be priced $30 to $40K and is not being classified as a luxury car. 2nd, the Tesla Sedan and current Roadster are all electric cars. There are several other manufacturer's out there that most of you know about that build or will build all electric cars besides Tesla (Phoenix Motors for example). These cars may not be practical for everyone. They don't have range extenders in them like the Volt will with its small gas/ethenol engine that will help run the car's electric motor. What will be the back-up on the Tesla if the battery runs completely dead miles from home? Also Tesla along with Phoenix Motors are low production manufacterers that do not have the resources at hand that major manufacturers have like GM which will be able to market the Volt accross the U.S.
 

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Not really a major competitor

I don't think that Tesla's Sedan will be a serious competitor to the Volt. First of all it will not be in the same class as the Volt. The proposed Tesla Sedan is being tauted as a luxury class car sold for around $60K. The Volt is a Sedan which will be priced $30 to $40K and is not being classified as a luxury car. 2nd, the Tesla Sedan and current Roadster are all electric cars. There are several other manufacturer's out there that most of you know about that build or will build all electric cars besides Tesla (Phoenix Motors for example). These cars may not be practical for everyone. They don't have range extenders in them like the Volt will with its small gas/ethenol engine that will help run the car's electric motor. What will be the back-up on the Tesla if the battery runs completely dead miles from home? Also Tesla along with Phoenix Motors are low production manufacterers that do not have the resources at hand that major manufacturers have like GM which will be able to market the Volt accross the U.S.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I don't think that Tesla's Sedan will be a serious competitor to the Volt. First of all it will not be in the same class as the Volt. The proposed Tesla Sedan is being tauted as a luxury class car sold for around $60K. The Volt is a Sedan which will be priced $30 to $40K and is not being classified as a luxury car. 2nd, the Tesla Sedan and current Roadster are all electric cars. There are several other manufacturer's out there that most of you know about that build or will build all electric cars besides Tesla (Phoenix Motors for example). These cars may not be practical for everyone. They don't have range extenders in them like the Volt will with its small gas/ethenol engine that will help run the car's electric motor. What will be the back-up on the Tesla if the battery runs completely dead miles from home? Also Tesla along with Phoenix Motors are low production manufacterers that do not have the resources at hand that major manufacturers have like GM which will be able to market the Volt accross the U.S.

For me, the 240 mile range is more than adequate for 99.99% of my trips. If I go close to or beyond that range, I would ride a train, bus, airplane, or even rent a car, and it could be a Volt.

For just adding $20K more, and 6 times the electric range of the Volt, and perhaps a lot sexier auto body, the enjoyment of Luxury, and regularly driving more than 30K miles/year, that is more than enough justification to go with the Luxury Sedan that is electric, and will catch more attention. If you increase the electric range of the Volt to 6 times to match the Tesla Sedan, you would have to spend $50K more in batteries, assuming that the current battery pack of Volt is $10K. So the Tesla is truly a wonderful deal, and it is the only one that will not make me use a drop of gasoline for about 99.99% of my trip. With the Volt and its current range, I would only reduce my gasoline consumption by 10% for all the trips that I make. So you should understand that from my perspective, the Tesla Sedan is a lot better deal than the Volt, only if you can afford the price, and surely I can afford it.

BUT IT ALL DEPENDS. If Tesla's luxury sedan will have the same shape as the production Volt or Prius or Insight.... I'll stick with the Volt. I only like the technology of the car a little better than its shape and body.
 

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IF Tesla's upcoming Sedan in 2010 would look similar in form to the original concept Chevy Volt, but sold for $60K and a range of 6 times better than Chevy Volt, I would go for it instead of the Volt.

Unless of course GM will start producing the original Concept Chevy Volt body, than it would give me second thoughts, even more... But if Tesla's sedan will look like another Prius, I'm sticking with the Volt.
$60k? Seriously?

From a car company that has really no track record at all. As opposed to $40k for a Volt from a real car company that will be forced by law to uphold its warranty?

If the looks matter that much to you why not just buy a good looking sports car and live with the high gas prices? You'd still save vs. $60k on an electric car and you wouldn't have to wait 2+ years to get it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
$60k? Seriously?

From a car company that has really no track record at all. As opposed to $40k for a Volt from a real car company that will be forced by law to uphold its warranty?

If the looks matter that much to you why not just buy a good looking sports car and live with the high gas prices? You'd still save vs. $60k on an electric car and you wouldn't have to wait 2+ years to get it.
Yes, the $60K price is serious. If you follow the Tesla news, the original plan was to produce a Sedan that would be about $40K, but given the range in the spec, reasonably, it is now priced at around $60K, which is still a good deal, in terms of electric mile range comparison compared to the Volt.

Hey don't give GM the idea to stick with $40K... I want them to lower the price some more to around $32K.

I said that both technology and looks matters a lot to me, not looks alone, so don't misinterpret. Certainly GM can produce more beauty with acceptable compromise to tout its brains.

And the same with the Volt, it is still in the late 2010 that it will be available. And Tesla's company, even if they deliver in 2010, I truly doubt that they can reach critical mass as GM's potential mass market. But then again, Tesla is after the luxury niche market, and it just happens that it would be a good deal from my perspective, only IF they deliver.

And from the other posts of darkening or blending out the A-frame of the production Volt, it has become slightly more attractive to me. If GM listens and place those slight modifications, I would be enticed once more.

But nothing is final until past 2010. Then it would be really good, and with the coming of other EV's it would be good to have several choices by then.

Meanwhile, I'm holding on to all the ICE that I have, waiting it out for the best (beauty and brains) EV or E-REV to come out, why need to buy some more when they could still work reliably for more than 5 years?
 

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But don't you think part of the reason the Volt is so 'ugly' is as a compromise to aero? I mean, I don't think they made it ugly on purpose! It just ended up that way in order to get a very low coefficient of drag (around .27 I read somewhere).

Maybe they should have 2 versions:

1 that gets 40 miles on a charge but looks like a Cavalier and one that gets 32 miles on a charge but looks like the concept Volt.

Also, last time I checked, Tesla had produced a grand total of 30 cars. Thirty. With 1200 waiting in line. And they were 2-3 years late with them.

Frankly, I seriously doubt you will have that choice by the end of 2010. Maybe by 2012. I'm just going by track record here.
 

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Another bit of iffiness that worries me about Tesla is that I haven't heard that the Model S is going to be based on some existing rolling chassis that's already had the bugs worked out by experienced automotive engineers and perhaps a few years of production. The Roadster is essentially a modified Lotus Elise, which is part of its success. If the Model S is an all-new structure, it may take them quite a few cars to "get it right."
 

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Discussion Starter #16
But don't you think part of the reason the Volt is so 'ugly' is as a compromise to aero? I mean, I don't think they made it ugly on purpose! It just ended up that way in order to get a very low coefficient of drag (around .27 I read somewhere).

Maybe they should have 2 versions:

1 that gets 40 miles on a charge but looks like a Cavalier and one that gets 32 miles on a charge but looks like the concept Volt.

Also, last time I checked, Tesla had produced a grand total of 30 cars. Thirty. With 1200 waiting in line. And they were 2-3 years late with them.

Frankly, I seriously doubt you will have that choice by the end of 2010. Maybe by 2012. I'm just going by track record here.
Really same sentiments here that GM should produce 2 versions. I would even have the initiative to be truly proud of their technology, especially to the young geeks who would be the future buyers. Yes, 2011 or maximum wait at 2014, I'll be definitely buying my next vehicles. So there would be wonderful choices, and whatever have beauty and brains at the best price gets a whiff of my wallet.
 

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I, for one, consider them to be competitive since I have reservations on both of them.

Consider this: since the Volt can run completely electric, what's to stop someone from adding enough batteries to equal the range of the Model S? (actually, 3 things - you'd need a heating/cooling system; not enough room and too much battery weight; AND IT WOULD THEN COST MORE $$$ THAN THE TESLA S). I'd say the Volt is a good compromise recognizing most factors including cost, whereas the Tesla S is emphasizing electric range, performance and luxury but is sacrificing cost.

Although the design announcements have changed from time to time, the Tesla Model S has a very similar drivetrain to the Roadster (although I believe it has more than the roadster's 6,831 batteries, and in two bundles rather than the single ESS of the Roadster). Also, unless they've changed their plans, the Model S was always intended to be offered in an extended-range version (with the same configuration as the Volt).

-prowler
 

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2010 would still be exciting, some IF would be pIFffft by then.
Indeed, late 2010 is not yet here and the Volts aren't for sale now...
Get Real Joe ;)
Tesla's a company of less than 250 employees, basically selling "prototypes" (27 to date) for huge $$ to people looking to drive something electric that they know they won't see at the country club.
ALL 27 current cars on the road are equipped with an "interim" transmission with the expectation to RECALL ALL OF them back for retrofits assuming they can win their legal battle with Magna International over the 2-speed version of their transmission.
Then there's the 26 ex-employee class action suit.
The car looks great but given their techncial difficulties and legal battles I'm afraid it might just become a collectors item.
JMO
WopOnTour
 

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Get Real Joe ;)
Tesla's a company of less than 250 employees, basically selling "prototypes" (27 to date) for huge $$ to people looking to drive something electric that they know they won't see at the country club.
ALL 27 current cars on the road are equipped with an "interim" transmission with the expectation to RECALL ALL OF them back for retrofits assuming they can win their legal battle with Magna International over the 2-speed version of their transmission.
Then there's the 26 ex-employee class action suit.
The car looks great but given their techncial difficulties and legal battles I'm afraid it might just become a collectors item.
JMO
WopOnTour

I thought that but than again, they seem to have held on tightly to over 1,000 deposits. What you are referring to are capital issues. If and when Tesla makes an IPO, they will be lightyears ahead of the little conversion shops out there. I suspect they are the real deal.

And comparing Model S to the Volt is hardly fair when the Model S is a BEV. The Volt simply is not. If GM nixes the range extender and adds a few extra miles on the range--then you're talking. I hope GM takes this approach.
 

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I thought that but than again, they seem to have held on tightly to over 1,000 deposits. What you are referring to are capital issues. If and when Tesla makes an IPO, they will be lightyears ahead of the little conversion shops out there. I suspect they are the real deal.
In this economic climate, how many people are going to invest in a company with legal troubles, eccentric management, poor track record for delivering product, building a car that has limited appeal, has not lived up to it's claims and is heavily dependent on outside contractors? I think only the truest of believers will through their cash into this money pit. I don't expect the Model S to ever get past the mock up stage.
 
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