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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I live in Southern California and over the past week I took my family to Palm Springs for a short Spring Break vacation. We went to the ACE Hotel, a place we have been many times. I pulled up in my Volt and asked a hotel employee if they had any EV charging stations. His face lit up and proudly pointed over "there." What he was referring to was a new Tesla Supercharger station. This hotel took two prime parking spots in the front of the hotel and reserved them for Tesla only and the non-standard Tesla charger. Meaning only a $76,000 + Tesla can park and charge. After further investigation they did have a 120 volt outlet in the back of the hotel in cord distance to a parking spot without any charging adapter - so basically "bring your own portable charger" and "park in the back."

I soon discovered that many hotels in the Palm Springs area were adding Tesla charging stations. I have no details or personal knowledge but Tesla is probably aggressively offering some type of installation incentives.

Some background (and please correct me if not accurate): The Volt and the rest of the EV industry (except for Tesla) use the SAE J1772 plug, which is a “North American standard for electrical connectors for electric vehicles maintained by the SAE International”. Tesla has developed their own standard and while the Tesla Model S can use the J1772 with an adapter, the rest of the industry that has followed the North American standard cannot use the Tesla Supercharger.

Tesla has every right to design a car and connect to whatever standard they think in the best interest of their owners and a retail establishment has every legal right to provide amenities they think are in the best interest of their customers. And as the customer we have the leverage to support that retail establishment or not.

My opinion on three possible EV charging situations:

  1. Hotel/ retail company installs both a "non-standard" Tesla SuperCharging station and a standard EV charging station. This is great! Encouraging ALL electric cars, associating their brand with cutting edge, clean energy. Win, win for everyone.
  2. Hotel/ retail company installs just a standard EV charging station based on the J1772. This is common (Whole Foods, Government and University owned public lots do it). A good move as they are accommodating EV cars that have followed the North American Standard.
  3. Hotel/retail company installs a Tesla supercharger station only or in the case I just experienced gave preferential parking to Tesla and/or provided a full Tesla station and no J1772 charger adapter. In my opinion this fails the “smell test” in my book as they are only accommodating those that can afford a $76,000 + EV. I think Tesla's technology is fantastic just not in the price range for most consumers and as Tesla charging technology is not compatible with the rest of the industry Tesla has built themselves an island and their owners need to deal with that decision regardless of which technology is better.
I took my negative opinion to Yelp immediately and I encourage anyone else that encounters the situation outlined in #3 above to make your opinion known on Yelp, Tripadvisor, Google Reviews and any other public forum.

Would be interested to learn whether this is an issue being discussed in any of the industry trade groups…

Cheers
RG
 

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Why do you need supercharging at a hotel, where you would normally park overnight???? This is clearly the last place you would need a 15 minute charge.

Do they think Tesla owners will simply park there for 15 minutes, then come back and move their car so someone else can charge? NO... They will park there all night...

Clearly the guys making the decisions have no idea how electric charging stations work...
 

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Obviously you are not the type of customer the hotel prefers, :) The location of the charging station is likely due to the cost of supplying power lines further away, but the lack of support for JI772 charging is clearly a fail. Besides Yelp, did you talk to the hotel management?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Interesting thing is we frequent the ACE because of the "inclusive nature" of the hotel. It's virtually a "commune" with every sex, race, age, sexual orientation hanging out by the pool. This "Tesla move" was akin to those cheesy Vegas hotels (and other places too) parking the Rolls Royces and Bentleys in the front with the rest of us under the parking garage... I don't think the decision makers understand how this type of move can negatively effect their brand.
 

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Why do you need supercharging at a hotel, where you would normally park overnight???? This is clearly the last place you would need a 15 minute charge.

Do they think Tesla owners will simply park there for 15 minutes, then come back and move their car so someone else can charge? NO... They will park there all night...

Clearly the guys making the decisions have no idea how electric charging stations work...
It'll not be a Supercharger. He's referring to High Power Wall Connectors (HPWCs), that can handle up to 80A. Tesla has a destination charging program where they will give hosts a pair of HPWCs and may also assist with some installation costs. Hotels and restaurants, typically. The HPWC has jumpers to select different currents, so they aren't always set to 80A. Some places just have them, other places install regular J1772 alongside.

This is what happens when a company is trying to sell premium long-distance BEVs. They can sell their customers to host businesses, and their customers get easier travel.
 

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Tesla pays for the entire installation in most cases... 'Nuff said!

And power availability usually dictates where the chargers are placed...
 

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It'll not be a Supercharger. He's referring to High Power Wall Connectors (HPWCs), that can handle up to 80A. Tesla has a destination charging program where they will give hosts a pair of HPWCs. The HPWC has jumpers to select different currents, so they aren't always set to 80A. Some places just have them, other places install regular J1772 alongside.
Whats more, there is currently no adapter for the Tesla Model S on the HPWC to the J1772 on other cars available for purchase. There's a few homebrewed prototypes around. Chris Tx has made one.
 

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FWIW, electrically the HPWC also uses J1772. And yeah it can go up to 80 amps (20kw for Teslas that have dual chargers and Model Xs that also support > 10kw charging.) Just that Tesla developed the nice slim and elegant connector that also doubles for use at their Supercharger sites. Compare the Tesla connector to the fugly CHAdeMO and CCS DC charging connectors...
 

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This sounds like a case of "Hey business owner, how would you like to attract customers that can afford a $100K car and who typically spend x amount per year on the services you sell?"

That would be an easy conversation. I wonder if Tesla's choice of a proprietary connector was intended to make this tactic possible.
 

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It'll not be a Supercharger. He's referring to High Power Wall Connectors (HPWCs), that can handle up to 80A. Tesla has a destination charging program where they will give hosts a pair of HPWCs and may also assist with some installation costs. Hotels and restaurants, typically. The HPWC has jumpers to select different currents, so they aren't always set to 80A. Some places just have them, other places install regular J1772 alongside.

This is what happens when a company is trying to sell premium long-distance BEVs. They can sell their customers to host businesses, and their customers get easier travel.
EXACTLY. This is part of Tesla's plan to encourage businesses to install EVSE for Tesla's to support long distance travel in a Tesla aka Destination Chargers. Other vehicles/manufactures are not entitled to use them.

This is why folks keep harping on what's GM's plans for the BOLT and asking businesses to support ALL EV's is a noble thing.
 

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I'd imagine we're going to see a variety of "standard" plugs come up as the requirements change unless the cars get smart enough to just "take what they need" without overloading.

I suspect that induction chargers and more automatic charging systems are in the near future rather then cables and plugs.
 

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Hopefully, the reader is enlightened enough to have mixed emotions on the subject, especially in light of GM doing NOTHING about a DC fast charging network for its coming Bolt. The second of my two 2012 Volts just went to my second child and I picked up a 2017 Volt on Saturday. I am awaiting delivery of a Tesla Model X in the coming weeks. I note the practicality of a 'common' level 2 EVSE and, if I were in charge, would choose to offer up services to the vast array of EV owners.

However, GMs NON-decision about DC fast charging left a VERY bad taste in my mouth (along with its REFUSAL to even offer optional 6.6 kw charging in the Volt). I am TRULY disgusted with 6.6 part, because it means that we Volt owners take up TWICE as much time at charging stations as our counterparts do. To me, the world of EV is filled with Tesla...and those who only SLIGHTLY give a rip about converting drivers over to electric. It is hard to say that someone who went with Tesla charging is biased against non-Teslas. It is far easier to look at the horse RACING to stay out in front of the pack and bet on it instead.
 

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EXACTLY. .... asking businesses to support ALL EV's is a noble thing.
This sums it up !! Tesla offers a $450 Chademo-to-Tesla adapter cord and I believe they come stock with a J1772-to-Tesla adapter.
Why build an EV charging system that excludes the majority of EV's? Teslas are the ones that can adapt.

...I note the practicality of a 'common' level 2 EVSE and, if I were in charge, would choose to offer up services to the vast array of EV owners.
.... It is hard to say that someone who went with Tesla charging is biased against non-Teslas.....
Isn't this opposing views? It sounds very 'biased against' non- +$74k EV's.
 

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My opinion on three possible EV charging situations:

  1. Hotel/ retail company installs both a "non-standard" Tesla SuperCharging station and a standard EV charging station. This is great! Encouraging ALL electric cars, associating their brand with cutting edge, clean energy. Win, win for everyone.
  2. Hotel/ retail company installs just a standard EV charging station based on the J1772. This is common (Whole Foods, Government and University owned public lots do it). A good move as they are accommodating EV cars that have followed the North American Standard.
  3. Hotel/retail company installs a Tesla supercharger station only or in the case I just experienced gave preferential parking to Tesla and/or provided a full Tesla station and no J1772 charger adapter. In my opinion this fails the “smell test” in my book as they are only accommodating those that can afford a $76,000 + EV. I think Tesla's technology is fantastic just not in the price range for most consumers and as Tesla charging technology is not compatible with the rest of the industry Tesla has built themselves an island and their owners need to deal with that decision regardless of which technology is better.
As I think a couple of folks have mentioned, this isn't actually a Supercharger (which is 120 kW of DC fast charging squirted straight into the battery bypassing the onboard charger entirely.) There isn't a supercharger in Palm Springs, and very few SpC sites on at hotels (where you really don't need 30 minute charging anyway.)

The nearest Supercharger would be in Indio, at the Indio Town Center strip mall (there's also one a little way to the north/west, at the Desert Hills Outlet mall in Cabazon):

http://supercharge.info/

What you're looking at is a High Power Wall Charger installation - the HPWC is actually a J1772 compliant 80A capable EVSE, with a different physical plug. There's absolutely no reason you couldn't build a simple dumb adapter that connects the wires into the right places on the car's plug - that's all that the Tesla J1772 adapter is (in reverse.) I wouldn't be too surprised if a company starts selling those eventually.

As for your list of options, you have to realize that Tesla is giving the HPWC away for free to participating businesses, *and* subsidizing the installation. That's part of their marketing program, like the SpC network - rather than spending money on television advertisements, they spend money on making the car practical and visible, and trust word of mouth to bring them customers.

Edit: See here, note the invitation attached at the bottom of the page:
https://www.teslamotors.com/destination-charging

Given that, I think it's entirely reasonable for Tesla to only install their preferred equipment on their dime. Having said that, you must have found an unusual case. From what I've read, the first option is actually far and away the main solution - Tesla generally pays to help the business install at least one conventional J1772 along with the HPWCs - presumably as part of their general "accelerating sustainable transportation" goals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
FWIW, electrically the HPWC also uses J1772. And yeah it can go up to 80 amps (20kw for Teslas that have dual chargers and Model Xs that also support > 10kw charging.) Just that Tesla developed the nice slim and elegant connector that also doubles for use at their Supercharger sites. Compare the Tesla connector to the fugly CHAdeMO and CCS DC charging connectors...
So it seems that it is technically possible to offer both from a single HPWC and the problem is from the retail owners that are pulling a bonehead move to make it a "Tesla Only" area. IMHO The fault is not from the ignorant retailers but by the silent industry. Tesla is making this "Superplay" because they can.
 

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greener - if I were a retailer participating in Tesla's "Destination Charging" program, I would at a minimum offer additional spots adjacent to the Tesla HPWC spots with 120V and 220V outlets. FYI, below photo is a screenshot from Tesla's website which stipulates:

"Attract Tesla drivers to your property by joining the destination charging network. Qualified properties will receive their first two Tesla wall connectors free of charge as long as they are installed in visible or convenient locations."

Destination.jpg

And for the Tesla fanboys who keep slamming GM for not spearheading a CCS DC charging network, remember that Musk "proclaimed" Model S as an EV with no compromise, meaning he HAD to build the supercharger network to back up his claim. CCS DC charging network will continue to develop. Your patience, on the other hand, maybe put into better use waiting for Model 3 or waiting for Model X doors to be fixed.
 

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Perhaps because Tesla paid for it all (or, even more relevant, their customers did since it is built in to the price of the car)?
I see no problem with their model.

Why build an EV charging system that excludes the majority of EV's? Teslas are the ones that can adapt.
 

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FWIW, here's some limited information on Tesla's Destination Charging program. As someone pointed out earlier, Tesla partners with these hotels and foots some part of the cost (not sure how much): https://www.teslamotors.com/destination-charging.

I think our general disappointment with GM's refusal to support a DC fast charging network speaks to why Tesla even has this program in place and why it continues to expand the Supercharger network. Heck, it's even why they developed their own charge conenctor (which supports L1, L2, and DC charging) years ago. Tesla is tired of waiting for some coalition tasked with building a nationwide DC fast charging network to materialize and for charging standards to settle, so it's going solo.

That said, I believe the Tesla connector does technically support J1772 standards (they have adapters after all), so it wouldn't be difficult for Tesla to adopt the eventual standard once it materializes. With the fight being between CHAdeMO and CCS, however, something tells me Tesla's probably more inclined to stick to its slimmer connector.
 
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