[Bluesideup]

Posted this earlier but somehow it got deleted.

https://electrek.co/2017/12/19/tesla-semi-record-order-125-electric-trucks-ups/

 

[Shivetya]

125 more trucks they don't have a line on which to build and based on other articles they haven't begun to buy the equipment needed to make the line.

 

[Mister Dave]

and based on other articles they haven't begun to buy the equipment needed to make the line.

Whether they make back their capex on semis or not (guidance says they won't), it first takes some capital to spend.

 

[BAZINGA]

So UPS was sold a "pig in a poke" and not smart enough to know they got fleeced. I better find a different shipper.

 

[hellsop]

So UPS was sold a "pig in a poke" and not smart enough to know they got fleeced. I better find a different shipper.

More likely something along the lines of "How much for this? Half million? How much press will we get? That much, eh? Put it into Promotions budget and tell Hoodwink & Lyers to hold off on the print buys for six months."

 

[scottf200]

http://www.businessinsider.com/companies-that-ordered-tesla-semi-2017-12

These are the companies who have placed orders for the Tesla Semi so far:

* Walmart: One of the first major companies to reserve the trucks, the retailer has made aggressive investments in technology in recent years as part of its effort to compete with Amazon.
* Pepsi: Pepsi previously had the largest Semi order, reserving 100 trucks in December.
* Anheuser-Busch: The brewer announced it ordered 40 Semis in December.
* Sysco: The food distributor has reserved 50 Semis.
* UPS: The delivery company placed the largest Semi order to date, reserving 125 trucks on Tuesday.
* DHL: The transportation and logistics company has reserved 10 Semis to add to its fleet.
* Meijer: Based in Michigan, the grocery chain has ordered four of the electric trucks.
* Ryder: The transportation company reserved an unspecified number of Semis in November.
* J.B. Hunt: The trucking company is set to purchase "multiple" Semis, but hasn't revealed the exact number.
* Flexport: Ryan Peterson, the freight company's CEO, announced the company has ordered one Semi.
* JK Moving: The independent moving company has reserved four Semis.
* Loblaw: After ordering 25 Semis, the Canadian supermarket chain announced plans to make its trucking fleet 100% electric by 2030.
* Fercam: Based in Italy, the trucking company has reserved a single Semi.
* Girteka Logistics: Not to be outdone by Fercam, the European transportation company also announced its plans to invest in one of Tesla's electric trucks.
* Fortigo Freight Services: The Canadian logistics company reserved one Semi.
* Best Transportation: The shipping company also ordered one Semi.
* Mecca & Son Trucking: According to Jalopnik, this trucking company has reserved one Semi.

 

[jayoldschool]

Cheap publicity for companies, capital for Tesla's vaporware.

 

[Mister Dave]

More likely something along the lines of "How much for this? Half million? How much press will we get? That much, eh? Put it into Promotions budget and tell Hoodwink & Lyers to hold off on the print buys for six months."

I think someone just helped make your point. ^

If UPS just now placed the order, they likely had to place a $2.5 million deposit.

That's a substantial outlay. Without knowing the terms (refundable? deadline?) it's hard to guess at the value of it. They can pull back later and I'll guess no one will want to talk about it, so...... probably hard to go wrong here.

 

[emartin00]

More likely something along the lines of "How much for this? Half million? How much press will we get? That much, eh? Put it into Promotions budget and tell Hoodwink & Lyers to hold off on the print buys for six months."

Right. They know full well that they won't see these trucks for at least a few years. But for now, it's good publicity.
And just like with all Tesla reservations, I'm guessing they can still cancel if they don't measure up. But realistically, UPS would likely use these 125 trucks for shorter runs between hubs and airports. Where they park at the same place every night and can recharge.

 

[viking79]

Cheap publicity for companies, capital for Tesla's vaporware.

Historically, what has Tesla said they would make that has turned out to be vaporware? Delayed, yes, vaporware, no.

 

[scottf200]

Cheap publicity for companies, capital for Tesla's vaporware.

Clearly they are testing trucks and 3rd parties are as well providing feedback. Clearly not "vaporware."

https://electrek.co/2017/12/18/tesla-semi-test-program-partner-performance-specs-real/

In his latest note to clients, Morgan Stanley’s Adam Jonas says that he spoke with XPO Logistics, a company that helped Tesla test its prototypes:

“The Tesla semi has already received important validation from some customers. We spoke with mgmt. at XPO Logistics, one of the largest logistics companies in the country, that has been talking to Tesla on their EV semi for the past 18 months, including testing live prototypes. XPO mgmt. confirmed that in their testing, the features and capabilities of the truck mostly lived up to Tesla’s claims at the launch event, including the performance vs. diesel trucks up a 5% grade (55 mph vs 45 mph), recharging time, safety/anti jackknifing features and payload (similar to a typical diesel truck, as confirmed by Tesla).”

 

[Mister Dave]

I would love to see the anti-jackknifing test. Now let's look at the whole paragraph and a follow-up from Car Buzz:

“The Tesla semi has already received important validation from some customers. We spoke with mgmt. at XPO Logistics, one of the largest logistics companies in the country, that has been talking to Tesla on their EV semi for the past 18 months, including testing live prototypes. XPO mgmt. confirmed that in their testing, the features and capabilities of the truck mostly lived up to Tesla’s claims at the launch event, including the performance vs. diesel trucks up a 5 percent grade (55 mph vs 45 mph), recharging time, safety/anti jackknifing features and payload (similar to a typical diesel truck, as confirmed by Tesla).” However, Jonas added that XPO has not confirmed that 500-mile range.

It’s important to note that all of Tesla’s other claimed specs appear to be accurate, so why be untruthful about the most important detail? Wouldn’t that hurt sales and Tesla’s reputation? Absolutely. As Electrek further points out, just because XPO is so far unable to confirm the 500-mile range, does not mean Tesla cannot achieve it. Furthermore, based on Tesla’s current battery technology, that claimed range, especially with a full payload, does seem hard to achieve. However, it’s also entirely possible Tesla is basing that figure on prototype batteries that have yet to be announced. Leave it to Tesla for technological breakthroughs, something it’s proven very capable of doing. Meeting production deadlines is a different story.

And Electrek's take is interesting to say the least.

It’s interesting to have a second data point to confirm some of those specs.

But of course, the main one is a range of 500 miles on a single charge with a full load. Now the fact that XPO could not confirm range doesn’t mean that Tesla can’t achieve it. They could simply not have had the opportunity to test the full range.

Nonetheless, based on the performance numbers that Tesla released, the battery pack would have a capacity of about 1 MWh and that would be a very heavy and costly battery pack.

It doesn’t appear to be possible with the current battery cells that Tesla uses in its current vehicles in term of weight and cost. Most analysts seem to agree that at least some significant incremental improvements in Li-ion batteries would be required or even a breakthrough with a new type of batteries.

Tesla could potentially already have those batteries for its prototypes, but it could need some time to achieve the cost and volume production required to ramp up the Tesla Semi program.

 

[AtomicPowered]

Don't need a very large factory to build this kind of truck. A very big garage with a crane. If they were really clever they could assemble them at the customer's. Build a service garage at the customer site, ship a crew, a truckload of special parts and equipment and the big components shipped in from vendors.

 

[scottf200]

Don't need a very large factory to build this kind of truck. A very big garage with a crane. If they were really clever they could assemble them at the customer's. Build a service garage at the customer site, ship a crew, a truckload of special parts and equipment and the big components shipped in from vendors.

One article via reddit indicated the semi's would be built at the NV gigafactory.

Reddit:

Daily Breeze just did an article on the Tesla Semi and the port of Long Beach in which they quoted, Ike Brown, the President of NFI Industries as saying “Supposedly they’re going to build a truck plant at the Gigafactory”. They had just placed an order for 10 Semi Truck’s and do a majority of the operations at the Long Beach port, so it sounds like they have been in close talks with Tesla and I would imagine that the “ok, so where are you going to actually build it?” Question came up and this is what Tesla told them. It probably wouldn’t need to be a huge portion of the Gigafactory, at most I don’t see them building more than 10,000 a month and that’s only after several years time. There could be a higher demand if they really start expanding internationally, but that’s something they could do overseas as well.

Reddit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotor...la_semi_to_be_manufactured_at_nv_gigafactory/
Daily Breeze article: http://www.dailybreeze.com/2017/11/...each-port-complex-2-years-before-its-release/

 

[Mister Dave]

“Supposedly, they’re going to build a truck plant at the Gigafactory,” Tesla’s lithium-ion battery production facility in Nevada, said Ike Brown, president of NFI Industries.

Tesla hasn't announced anything yet. Word is from Fortune that they build the 3 motors there. Perhaps gearboxes too.

 

[PrivatePilot]

All other arguments aside, as someone who's driven a truck for over 2 decades now for work, there's a lot of issues with that truck, mainly with the centre seating position. It's a classic case of when an engineer who's never actually done someones job for a single day of their lives designs the equipment that someone relies on to do their job.

There's gonna be a lot of smashed up trailers from guys trying to back into tight docks with these things.

 

[Mister Dave]

All other arguments aside, as someone who's driven a truck for over 2 decades now for work, there's a lot of issues with that truck, mainly with the centre seating position. It's a classic case of when an engineer who's never actually done someones job for a single day of their lives designs the equipment that someone relies on to do their job.

There's gonna be a lot of smashed up trailers from guys trying to back into tight docks with these things.

Jonathon Ramsey agrees with you.

I only have space here to address a few issues, so we'll start with the central seating position. I don't see how that helps a trucker. I already get "a commanding view of the road" in a traditional truck because I sit six feet above traffic. What I need is a commanding view of my own truck, which the central seating position compromises. The worst blind spot in a tractor is next to the doors; in the Tesla Semi, I can't lean over to see if there's a Toyota Corolla camped out beside me. The central seating position hampers my commanding view when I need that view most: when I back up. For any backing maneuver, I watch both sides of the trailer in my mirrors to make sure I don't clobber anything, or I lean out of the truck to watch the trailer as I back. Being able to physically watch the trailer – not camera images on screens – can be the difference between making a clean back-up or making an insurance claim.

This ex-trucker has some questions about the Tesla Semi
First, let's talk about that central seating position.

 

[Off Oil]

All other arguments aside, as someone who's driven a truck for over 2 decades now for work, there's a lot of issues with that truck, mainly with the centre seating position. It's a classic case of when an engineer who's never actually done someones job for a single day of their lives designs the equipment that someone relies on to do their job.

There's gonna be a lot of smashed up trailers from guys trying to back into tight docks with these things.

I would assume there's a complete surround view camera system. But I agree with your principle, the best design is in collaboration with people who have the real world experience.

 

[PrivatePilot]

I would assume there's a complete surround view camera system.

Go search for how often people complain about their backup cameras being usless because the lens on the cameras got dirty. Then equate that to a truck that travels more miles in a day than some drive in a month and ask yourself how reliable a 100% camera reliant system is going to be on a class 8 truck.

I don't want to have to get out of the truck and clean a bunch of camera lenses (which will end up scratched all to hell in no time flat from having road grime/salt/dirt ground into their lenses with a drivers gloves) before I can back up every time I need to. Which for the target audience Tesla is aiming at, is many...MANY times a day.

 

[scottf200]

All other arguments aside, as someone who's driven a truck for over 2 decades now for work, there's a lot of issues with that truck, mainly with the centre seating position. It's a classic case of when an engineer who's never actually done someones job for a single day of their lives designs the equipment that someone relies on to do their job.

There's gonna be a lot of smashed up trailers from guys trying to back into tight docks with these things.

That is pretty curious. You do realize they have various partners testing the trucks already right. ie. not engineers.

Don't you think if they just put larger mirrors on either side like 1 of the demonstration trucks (in reveal) had that that would be the same benefit. I mean if today in existing trucks you are sitting close to the left door and have a mirror on passenger (right) don't you have to look *all* the way across the cab to see that mirror in backing up? See my confusion?

In this picture I just quickly made up to demonstrate my point is the combined distance to both your mirrors used for backing up from the traditional left drivers seat the same as from the middle seat position?

Aside: Guess work by KmanAuto on what was in the one semi at the event.

Red arrow on the right side of the picture below is the above picture.