GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,085 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Tesla Motors inks tech deal with Daimler:

Fox Biz Link

Speculation on what its about:

Auto Blog Green Link

I doubt the tech deal is regarding batteries. Although Tesla Motors demonstrated that even a standard Li Ion battery for computers would work in an EV, there are so many other battery vendors out there with a better packaged battery with "safe" chemistries.

I suspect that the Telsa Motors motor and drivetrain designs would be a more interesting grab for Daimler, especially with the integrated regenerative braking and traction controls.

I don't think Tesla Motors would buy tech from Daimler, unless it is for suspension and handling, but Lotus should have been covered there. A tech deal doesn't sound like Tesla Motors is buying engines from Daimler for their own REEV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Good. Glad to see the big boys are getting serious abou EVs. Jason, were we not just speculating about the large corps joining with the start-ups? Come on Ford...grab Fisker while you can!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,085 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Good. Glad to see the big boys are getting serious abou EVs. Jason, were we not just speculating about the large corps joining with the start-ups? Come on Ford...grab Fisker while you can!
LOL - I thought the same thing when I saw the article. I would love it if Tesla Motors licensed to all automakers, and continued to be a leading edge design and technology house.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
LOL - I thought the same thing when I saw the article. I would love it if Tesla Motors licensed to all automakers, and continued to be a leading edge design and technology house.
It's still a trick seeing who is real and who is not. EEstor has a lot of people "hoping." And there are lots of little players trying to make a buck. I do like the Enerdels (I think I spelled that incorrectly) and A123s and such.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,085 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
As a general rule, watch what they do, not what they say.

A123 has been delivering to Black & Decker for years (not days or months). Tesla Motors has actually delivered a couple cars, while being transparent in their quest to solve their transmission problems. Nanosolar has been shipping panels to Germany, while building manufacturing capability in Germany and France.

You can't beat deliveries as a sign of success / strength. Of course, they have to be turning a profit. A123 and Nanosolar certainly have the products that do or will. Tesla Motors may depend on licensing agreements and component / system sales to be profitable, in addition to their technology showcase cars.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
968 Posts
"You can't beat deliveries as a sign of success / strength. Of course, they have to be turning a profit." - Hendler

Are you going to remember this the next time you're tempted to extoll the virtues of the ER-EV Volt and diss the fortunes of the HSD Prius? Or should I bookmark this page, so that I can remind you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,085 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
dag,

Still a little sore, eh?

So are you going to list for us what Toyota's margins are for the Prius? Moreover, are you going to explain how much Toyota now has to spend to develop Li Ion battery tech, highway speed EV propulsion and plug-in rechargeability? Do you know how long it will take and how much it will cost for Toyota to completely retool for a new platform, because the Prius platform is a dead-end?

Of course, GM will struggle to recoup all R&D, etc., but if they end up making a profit off just the production investment, then GM will be way ahead, as Ford and Chrysler seem to be flailing.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
968 Posts
dag,

Still a little sore, eh?

So are you going to list for us what Toyota's margins are for the Prius? Moreover, are you going to explain how much Toyota now has to spend to develop Li Ion battery tech, highway speed EV propulsion and plug-in rechargeability? Do you know how long it will take and how much it will cost for Toyota to completely retool for a new platform, because the Prius platform is a dead-end?

Of course, GM will struggle to recoup all R&D, etc., but if they end up making a profit off just the production investment, then GM will be way ahead, as Ford and Chrysler seem to be flailing.
Sore about what? You're wrong time and time again. Doesn't make me sore... although it is aggravating.

I already apologized for doubting that you're an exec and I've moved on. You're the perfect exec... surfing other's ideas indiscriminately. When one turns out to work, you're there. Never mind the ones that don't.

Anyway, you answered my question. I'll bookmark this for future reference.

As for questions specifically regarding Toyota's margins and investments... No, I'm not going to list them. Toyota's bottom line speaks for itself. They make money selling cars that list for as little as $10,900. They were selling the Prius above unit cost back in December, 2002. They've announced that they've cut the custo to produce HSD significantly since. A recent article says the selling price on the '09 Prius will be held to $21K. With gas at $4/gallon and a reported 10-month waiting list in some places, Toyota could raise the list price if they needed to.

Toyota has the cash to fund anything they care to fund. They appear to have decided to build their own NiMH and Li-Ion batteries. Those committments won't even take a quarter's worth of profits.

I'm looking for someone to credibly explain why two-time hybrid loser GM should be expected to produce an, arguably, even more advanced and revolutionary third car that will be a success.

Toyota has deliveries and a profit. Someone recently said that you can't beat that as a sign of success. Yep. Too true.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,544 Posts
Toyota has the cash to fund anything they care to fund. They appear to have decided to build their own NiMH and Li-Ion batteries. Those committments won't even take a quarter's worth of profits.

I'm looking for someone to credibly explain why two-time hybrid loser GM should be expected to produce an, arguably, even more advanced and revolutionary third car that will be a success.

Toyota has deliveries and a profit. Someone recently said that you can't beat that as a sign of success. Yep. Too true.
You make some good points regarding Toyota's success. The only argument for GM is simply that the E-REV concept is much better than the HSD and the hope that Chevy can build it more to American tastes. I won't make the argument that it will be a guaranteed success or that GM is making a big come back. I won't say that Toyota is being "blow away" or "left in the dust" but they do seem to be taking a very conservative approach to EV evolution. Of coarse, as you have pointed out, they have the resources to easily catch up and probably pass everybody if the put their collective minds to it. I hope for America's sake that GM is making a come back and Toyota is missing the boat, however it's way too soon to tell.

Price and availability are huge obstacles to GM's current line of hybrid's success. The same may come to pass for the Volt as well. Desperate times call for desperate measures and GM must be feeling pretty desperate right about now. I hope that this can be the motivation to really shake up the status quo around GM and push towards a new future full speed ahead.

On the original topic, I think about the only thing Daimler gets out of a deal like this is a little bit of motor and contoller experience cheap (perhaps for Smart?) and most of all, instant green street cred. Tesla gets everything it needs to be a real car company. Of coarse the history of recent start ups in this country is; start up a small company with venture capital and a great idea, hype the hell out of it, produce a bit of success and then sell it off as fast as you can to the highest bidder and rake in big bucks. Repete as nessicary.
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top