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I have/had a 2012 Volt. Recent crash, don't know yet if it's totalled or fixable. So I'm thinking about moving on from the Volt since GM has also moved on. I priced a Tesla Model 3, base model, $31.5K (looks like price went up this AM to 34.2K). I get to the end and without any add-ons it's $46K. I did it 3 times to be sure I did it right. Nope, $46K.

Turns out the lower base price of 34.2K is "after savings"--$7500 rebate + projected $4300 gas savings 6 years. IOW, I pay Tesla *upfront* all my rebate and savings in gas. What a crock!

This really ticked me off.

I hope they can fix my car.
 

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I'm not sure why you thought you could buy a Tesla for $31.5K, but that has never been even speculated as a possible price point for any Tesla at any time. That does seem like an odd way to depict the cost of the car, but apparently they are trying to offer a way to compare the total cost of ownership to that of competing brands, and for that purpose the comparison is legitimate. Also, you are not paying Tesla up front for your rebate. Tesla never receives or handles your rebate in any way. You get that as a credit off of your tax return, so you get that back directly from the Federal government (or from yourself, depending on how you want to look at the concept of income taxation).
 

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Tesla by the end of the year, if not now will have their Federal Tax incentive cut in half. GM will most likely loose half the Federal incentive by the second quarter of next year. I was considering trading in my 2014 Volt for a 2019 Bolt to utilize the full Tax Incentive, but as many have realized a used Chevy Volt has very little resale/trade in value.
 

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... I priced a Tesla Model 3, base model, $31.5K (looks like price went up this AM to 34.2K). I get to the end and without any add-ons it's $46K. I did it 3 times to be sure I did it right. Nope, $46K.

Turns out the lower base price of 34.2K is "after savings"--$7500 rebate + projected $4300 gas savings 6 years. IOW, I pay Tesla *upfront* all my rebate and savings in gas. What a crock! ...
I'm assuming by "Base Model" you meant you were trying to quote for the high anticipated "$35k" Model 3 that should be released eventually? While, yes, the way Tesla shows their pricing is highly misleading and whoever thought of doing it that way deserves a wake up call, the cheapest listed Model 3 is not actually the "base model" (is my understanding; someone more knowledgable please correct me if I'm wrong) but is actually just the mid-range model.

As per the Tesla Design Center for the Model 3 for the last few months; "Standard Battery available in 4-6 months", which I assume to mean the base model "$35k" M3.
 

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I have/had a 2012 Volt. Recent crash, don't know yet if it's totalled or fixable. So I'm thinking about moving on from the Volt since GM has also moved on. I priced a Tesla Model 3, base model, $31.5K (looks like price went up this AM to 34.2K). I get to the end and without any add-ons it's $46K. I did it 3 times to be sure I did it right. Nope, $46K.

Turns out the lower base price of 34.2K is "after savings"--$7500 rebate + projected $4300 gas savings 6 years. IOW, I pay Tesla *upfront* all my rebate and savings in gas. What a crock!

This really ticked me off.

I hope they can fix my car.
I noticed that too on their pricing page, it's dishonest. There are no savings on fuel, that assumes electricity is free and it's not, here in MA it costs me the same to run my Volt on either gas or electric, about 6 cents a mile either way plus of minus a penny depending on the time of year and the price of gas. The Federal tax credit is going away for Tesla, if you don't pick up your car by Monday it's down to $3750 assuming. The Federal tax credit only applies if you have that much tax liability, I doubt that anyone who buys a Tesla doesn't owe at least that, and probably much much more, but still it shouldn't be included in the price calculation, it should appear as a separate line.
 

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The other crock is that you can't buy a base Model 3. They aren't building them. If you really want a Tesla, look at a used Model S. I don't know where you live, but a quick search around me popped up this one for $38K:
https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-for-sale/listing/5YJSA1AG4DFP09660/2013-tesla-model-s/

Or this one with less miles and a minor front end collision in it's Carfax report for $35k:
https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-for-sale/listing/5YJSA1DN1DFP21582/2013-tesla-model-s/

If you want new and need it to be around $35k, I would look hard at the Hyundai Kona electric. That's a nice looking and, so far, reviewed vehicle. That should be coming out any day now.
 

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Yes, a decently equipped Model 3 will be ~50K, and a version in 30's isn't on the horizon. At this point I'd be hesitant to buy a Bolt also given GM's eliminating the Volt powertrain in it's entirety.

Used Model S prices are in a more reasonable price range.
 

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Yes, a decently equipped Model 3 will be ~50K, and a version in 30's isn't on the horizon. At this point I'd be hesitant to buy a Bolt also given GM's eliminating the Volt powertrain in it's entirety.

Used Model S prices are in a more reasonable price range.
Why? I don't think the two powertrains have that much in common.
 

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At this point I'd be hesitant to buy a Bolt also given GM's eliminating the Volt powertrain in it's entirety.

I don't follow.

GM said the Bolt will be the underlying platform for more BEV's (people suspect a Buick version at least). It's also the platform that will be used for the Cruise AV, a ride sharing car GM is pinning a lot of it's future on and spending gobs of money on. I doubt the Volt affects the Bolt in any way since they aren't made in the same plant, don't have the same drive train, don't share the same parts.
 

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Why? I don't think the two powertrains have that much in common.
I don't follow.

GM said the Bolt will be the underlying platform for more BEV's (people suspect a Buick version at least). It's also the platform that will be used for the Cruise AV, a ride sharing car GM is pinning a lot of it's future on and spending gobs of money on. I doubt the Volt affects the Bolt in any way since they aren't made in the same plant, don't have the same drive train, don't share the same parts.
It's true the powertrains for the Volt and Bolt are different. The logic is based on relying on GM's on-going commitment to the product, and commitment is based on action. GM currently only has 2 EV's, with nothing new releasing in the near time-frame, and they just cut 1 of their EVs from production. Due to this I'd be hesitant to buy the Bolt right now. My vehicle purchases are normally long term, at least 7-10 years.
 

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I have/had a 2012 Volt. Recent crash, don't know yet if it's totalled or fixable. So I'm thinking about moving on from the Volt since GM has also moved on. I priced a Tesla Model 3, base model, $31.5K (looks like price went up this AM to 34.2K). I get to the end and without any add-ons it's $46K. I did it 3 times to be sure I did it right. Nope, $46K.

Turns out the lower base price of 34.2K is "after savings"--$7500 rebate + projected $4300 gas savings 6 years. IOW, I pay Tesla *upfront* all my rebate and savings in gas. What a crock!

This really ticked me off.

I hope they can fix my car.
Yeah, no-one likes the way the price ticker on the right of the screen, shows the after-savings price. It's always been that way for the Models S and X as well. However, the actual price is on the bottom row as you build out your car.

$46k is the current lowest price on a MidRange Model 3. The base $35k car is not coming until the latter half of 2019. Of course, that car will have the smaller battery, 50kWh, and no premium features like leather, heated power seats, no glass roof, no upgraded stereo, etc., etc. That's a $5k option.

Anyhow, if you saw in the last couple days, there was an Edmunds article, going around on the AP wire:
https://finance.yahoo.com/m/52018456-d6fe-3bc0-b059-c701bb67bf53/edmunds%3A-how-much-car-can-you.html

That says, according to Experian, the average finance cost for a new car is $530. The article is trying to figure out how much car you can buy for $399 a month, using 72 months. The came up with a $27k car. I came up with $45k if you get a better finance rate, and the tax credit. That's the cost of a Model 3 MR.

A 72month, 3.25% loan on $40k is $612. The tax credit amortized over 72 months would knock off $104. Savings on gas, would be another $90, based upon 12k miles, $3 gas, and 25mpg ICE, vs 13c/kWh the national avg. While gas is cheaper now, you have to factor what you think the average price will be over the 72 months. It'll probably be higher than $3. When you add it up, you get around $420 a month, when comparing apples to apples. Then the article adds 12% as the average down pmt, and the $40k car with the $420 a month in financial costs, is $45k, which is right around the base cost of a Tesla Model 3 MR. In other words, the Model 3 is already cheaper to own, than the average car financed in the US, according to Experian.

While what Tesla shows on their website is not very cool, I think what they are trying to get across is that people don't really factor in how much the tax credit and fuel savings really do impact their actual budget.
 

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I noticed that too on their pricing page, it's dishonest. There are no savings on fuel, that assumes electricity is free and it's not, here in MA it costs me the same to run my Volt on either gas or electric, about 6 cents a mile either way plus of minus a penny depending on the time of year and the price of gas. The Federal tax credit is going away for Tesla, if you don't pick up your car by Monday it's down to $3750 assuming. The Federal tax credit only applies if you have that much tax liability, I doubt that anyone who buys a Tesla doesn't owe at least that, and probably much much more, but still it shouldn't be included in the price calculation, it should appear as a separate line.
They're using national averages, 13c/kWh, $3 gas, for their assumptions. Of course, places like New England, electric is above the national average. Then again, don't you get another $2500 in Mass for EVs?
 

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Problem with the Bolt is how it looks- it's more like an electric Prius- not a very interesting design. And the interior is horrible- cheap materials, no real seats and looks like a toy designer did the interior. I know LG did most of the finish work and it was done to a price point but, there is a point where the car has to have something more than being electric. GM used to have the best designs- The Gen 1 Volt was interesting and unique. Nobody wants a Bolt anything beyond it's electric drive train. It also costs too much for what you get. The Bolt needs an upmarket version with real seats and a real interior. The interior part is a challenge, as most GM cars have inferior interiors to the competition.
 

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Problem with the Bolt is how it looks- it's more like an electric Prius- not a very interesting design. And the interior is horrible- cheap materials, no real seats and looks like a toy designer did the interior. ....
You're talking STYLE.
There are no rights and wrongs in matters of taste.

Plus it's a hatchback which some of us want instead of a sedan.

And lots of owners don't understand the fuss about the seats. I drove one. Seemed fine to me. But that's my taste.....

I want one, but I'm waiting for some sort of auto-pilot tech.
 

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Problem with the Bolt is how it looks- it's more like an electric Prius- not a very interesting design. And the interior is horrible- cheap materials, no real seats and looks like a toy designer did the interior. I know LG did most of the finish work and it was done to a price point but, there is a point where the car has to have something more than being electric. GM used to have the best designs- The Gen 1 Volt was interesting and unique. Nobody wants a Bolt anything beyond it's electric drive train. It also costs too much for what you get. The Bolt needs an upmarket version with real seats and a real interior. The interior part is a challenge, as most GM cars have inferior interiors to the competition.
These are some of the reasons a couple of car reviewers on youtube picked the Kona over the Bolt.
I drove a Bolt home from the Chevy dealer for my wife to look at. She said no way. Doesn't like the looks of it.
 

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Tesla by the end of the year, if not now will have their Federal Tax incentive cut in half. GM will most likely loose half the Federal incentive by the second quarter of next year. I was considering trading in my 2014 Volt for a 2019 Bolt to utilize the full Tax Incentive, but as many have realized a used Chevy Volt has very little resale/trade in value.
There's no probably in this. Tesla delivered there 200,000th US EV in the first week of July, and they drop to 50% tax credits starting January 1st per the current law. GM hit it in November, so they will lose the full tax credit starting April 1st. Unless Congress changes the law, it's all in black and white.

Each then gets two quarters of half credit and 2 quarters of 25% credit. So after December 31st 2019, there's no tax credit at all for Tesla - and after March 31st 2020 GM gets nothing.
 
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