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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2088343/

An owner of a Model S has received official confirmation from Tesla that ALL Tesla's now have a hard count of how many fast charging sessions are allowed (Supercharging OR via CHAdeMO adapter). Once the hard count is reached, max Supercharging speeds are PERMANENTLY reduced FOREVER.

Wow! If I was a Tesla owner I'd be pissed! Never being told about this restriction up front. Supercharging not what it used to be, eh?
 

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I can see a point to this though. Although it would suck, and being a vehicle owner you should be able to choose how you treat your own property even if it goes against manufacturer recommendations. That said, I think what Tesla needs to do is offer the option that if you choose to bypass this added safety net to preserve the battery life by limiting the number of fast charge cycles then you should absolutely be allowed to do so but perhaps with the caveat that bypassing the limit voids any remaining performance warranty of the battery. This way the customer is satisfied that they are no longer limited to the slower, yet still reasonably quick charging option, and in exchange accept full responsibility for any damage that may occur with repeated fast charging cycles and limit the number of warranty claims by those who want to accelerate the damage and have Tesla on the hook for repair or replacement.
 

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Still not convinced he got the real story. Supercharging speeds vary widely anyway, based on limitations in both the car and the charger and cord.

If what he was told is true, it certainly would be a problem that they never mentioned it.

OTOH, Even a full on Supercharger session is much less aggressive than fast charging a Leaf or Spark EV at 40-50 kW, because of the big batteries.

Prior guidance has been that supercharging daily is fine, and the Tesloop people that did 200k Supercharging daily never said anything about being slowed down.
 

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wow.... I foresee see a bunch of rich attorneys and doctors piling onto a class action suit to get batteries replaced that hit this limitation.

On the flip side, I wonder whether I can get a used Tesla cheap after it has hit this limit. I can live with level 2 every day for my commute (heck, I could go 3-4 days between charges if I had do).

I had the same fear in 2013 with level 1 vs. level 2 on the volt, but a phone call to the volt advisor assauged my fears, and I plug in at level 2 every day.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
That certainly won't help resale value (*permanently gimped Supercharging).
Lol
 

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Almost 32,000 miles on my 14 month old Tesla Model X with quite a few supercharges on roadtrips.

The below from last weekend is pretty good, right? I'm still getting 100+ kW at various SCs depending on my starting SOC.

bro1999, remind me again what your Bolt is getting (44 kW?) :0 -- you are a little overboard on the Tesla bashing aren't you :)

 

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bro1999, remind me again what your Bolt is getting (44 kW?) :0
Don't you mean, what the current public chargers are providing?

Regardless, if this is true, I could see Tesla with a major lawsuit on their hands. One of the major selling points for the Model S and X was "Supercharging for life." Based on that alone, they need to suck it up and keep their promise for the 100,000+ units that were sold before they put the cap on it.

Something else that this could be based on is the potential dendrite buildup in the batteries. Theoretically, the battery could reach a point where Supercharging at 100+ kW could literally turn the battery into a bomb. However, if that is the case, Tesla needs to have a model in place to provide a replacement battery. I guess they don't have to (i.e., Tesla owners just have a large brick sitting in their driveway), but that would be very bad for business.
 

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It doesn't sound as though Tesla is preventing these units from using Superchargers, but rather throttling down the charge rate to increase the life of the battery after so many fast charge cycles.

As for providing a replacement battery, it sounds as though Tesla is doing what they need to do in order to avoid a potential flood of batteries that have prematurely failed or show significant signs of degradation due to excessive use of high speed charging.

I have to say I tend to stand by my original post earlier in that they should make the charging throttling an option rather than forcing it on every customer that chooses to utilize fast charging options, but include a clause that states those who wish to "opt out" of the limited charging rate is at the owners risk and owner accepts full responsibility. Most people don't fully realize that dumping large amounts of power into or even out of a battery within a short period of time is stressful to the battery and may actually result in many people choosing to accept slightly longer charging times if it means they reduce long term damage to their battery.
 

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Almost 32,000 miles on my 14 month old Tesla Model X with quite a few supercharges on roadtrips.

The below from last weekend is pretty good, right? I'm still getting 100+ kW at various SCs depending on my starting SOC.

bro1999, remind me again what your Bolt is getting (44 kW?) :0 -- you are a little overboard on the Tesla bashing aren't you :)
I also think it's funny BRo will latch on to each and every rumor of something bad with Tesla, and run with it like it's the truth. Point out any flaws or question GM's designs, he's quick to defend his Bolt EV purchase as if multiple generations of his family's honor depended on it. :p

Most of my ~50k miles come from very long, L3 powered road trips. Colorado, Iowa, Florida, Nashville, with tons of Houston, Austin, and San Antonio trips over the past 3+ years. I would be surprised if it's under 200 Supercharges, plus 20 or so CHAdeMO sessions. I'm still getting Supercharging rates up to slightly over 119kW, if the planets are aligned. I think the dude is taking misinterpreting things, quite a bit and running with it. Hilarious that people keep bringing up Tesloop's 200k+ mile cars that always charge to 100% on a Supercharger, 2-3 times a day, with no L3 rate degradation. How in the world is this the first dude to have this happen? Does he think he's the only Tesla owner to do DCFC charging, to the extreme?
 

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If true, Tesla is likely right to reduce charge rates. Batteries age and increase internal resistance which will lead to more heat generated internally. It is something people will have to get used to with EVs. Agreed this sounds blown out of proportion. I try to remain neutral with Tesla, too many people trying to manipulate the stock price.
 

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If true, Tesla is likely right to reduce charge rates. Batteries age and increase internal resistance which will lead to more heat generated internally. It is something people will have to get used to with EVs. Agreed this sounds blown out of proportion. I try to remain neutral with Tesla, too many people trying to manipulate the stock price.
I think it's fine to remain neutral (that's where I prefer to be), but too many people act as though Tesla is above any level of criticism. They have made (and continue to make) both blunders and outrageous claims, which they cannot or have not lived up to. At the same time, we are seeing even more of a concerted effort by certain industries to curtail EV adoption. Much like climate change, the best we can do is state verifiable facts and hope that reasonable people are listening.
 

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Would be disturbing if true since there hasn't been any disclosure about this potential problem. OTOH it's not clear how many people would be affected given that most likely charge at home most of the time. Plenty of Tesla owners likely have never used a DC fast charger. But for the minority who do it with great frequency it could present a problem which they weren't prepared for. If this is true my guess is that it's more policy or politically motivated -- maybe Tesla wants to discourage ride sharing or something -- rather than a chemistry problem. That would be better since it's easy to fix policy but hard to fix chemistry problems.

I also think it's funny BRo will latch on to each and every rumor of something bad with Tesla, and run with it like it's the truth. Point out any flaws or question GM's designs, he's quick to defend his Bolt EV purchase as if multiple generations of his family's honor depended on it. :p
You seem to think he's creating the story/rumor when he's just citing a thread in the Tesla forum. I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, mostly because Tesla has made a run or two before at limiting charging in one way or another. The problem is that you can never supply enough of a free good. It wouldn't surprise me if 10% of Tesla owner accounted for 90% of the fast charging, which is likely not what Tesla had in mind. Normally pricing rations usage, but the "free for life" selling point creates a situation in which some will want to charge all the time. No doubt more facts will come out.
 

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This isn't a rumor if you read the Tesla forum link.
I read every page of it, and the screenshots of the OP's RO still doesn't point to a real limit. As others have said, it's probably a new service person that isn't sure what's going on. Some people run into degraded Superchargers, now and then. When I plug into one, I just move my car over to the next one and call Tesla. Plenty of people don't even bother to see what their charge rate is, most of the time.

I've got some pings into some of my Tesla service contacts that have worked on my car for the past several years. I'd take their word over this speculation.
 

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I also think it's funny BRo will latch on to each and every rumor of something bad with Tesla, and run with it like it's the truth. Point out any flaws or question GM's designs, he's quick to defend his Bolt EV purchase as if multiple generations of his family's honor depended on it. :p
I don't think superchargers "for life" has to apply to all Tesla's ever made.
 

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I do hate ELR owners though.......... :D
Hey, I want an ELR, but am just looking for a valid excuse to go buy one. Had I not jumped the gun on the volt, I'd be driving an ELR right now.
 

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What's interesting about this discussion is there isn't any mention of this on the official Tesla.com forum. I know they don't usually allow negative posts/data from being displayed, but if this were true and enough Tesla owners were impacted and had proof they would be forced to allow the discussions.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/tesla-model-s

Makes you wonder where the truth lies.
 

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The biggest issue how its being presented...Many just read the catchy titles/subjects so it's important to not be vague...This will be a runaway story with folks believing "fast charging" or "DCFC" is all the same as a supercharging...It appears to reach this cap you need to DCFC nearly 200(?) times to reach this cap which is the extreme minority since supercharging is likely faster and cheaper if not free...It absolutely sucks and an interesting aspect is if you're dinged if you lease, but how many people are really going to DCFC 200 times?
 

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Almost 32,000 miles on my 14 month old Tesla Model X with quite a few supercharges on roadtrips.

The below from last weekend is pretty good, right? I'm still getting 100+ kW at various SCs depending on my starting SOC.

bro1999, remind me again what your Bolt is getting (44 kW?) :0 -- you are a little overboard on the Tesla bashing aren't you :)

This is why it's impossible to ever know what a Tesla is or is not in any aspect.

We see this kind of info constantly from range to cupholders to AEB to AP/EAP to infotainment to pricing.

So Teslas charge at 300 miles per hour. So if I rent a Tesla 85/90 and I plug it in for 30 minutes I can set the cruise control at 65 mph and go 150 map miles?

The answer? It could happen.
The full answer? Do not schedule airline departure times based on that number.

On Tesla's website to explain Supercharging to new owners or perspective buyers, it shows the 90 kWh Model S will charge to 80% in 40 minutes, (which is 235 Tesla miles). It does not say up to, because it's a percentage. It only says "up to" when referring to 170 miles in 30 miles. Oddly enough, Tesla sort of admits a Tesla Mile is not a map mile right on that page. 80% in 40 minutes on a Model S 90 kWh (294mi version) would be well over 176 miles in 30 minutes due to declining charge rate, not 'up to' 170.

A Tesla Mile is never directly related to a map mile while charging. If your Tesla gets 200 miles of map range each time you charge it, the Tesla gauge never changes based on that. If it said 248 Tesla miles, it will continue to.

I think that as more and more Chevrolet Bolt EV's get in the field, we are going to end up with an actual ratio between Tesla Miles and EPA miles based on 'neutral' EV from a company that seldom exaggerates their metrics.
 

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My first Tesla service person said there is no limit, like that. They stated the only L3 limits in place are on the A-packs (well known limit to 90kW), when you're sharing a Supercharger cabinet and the demand is higher than the cabinet can supply, temperature based limits on either the battery pack or the Supercharger gear, or if you are at 0mi range and you plug into a Supercharger, which drops the amps way down to bring it up to a safe voltage to do a full kW session.

Awaiting my second and third contact's response.
 
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