Tesla Lite !!

18808 Views 22 Replies 16 Participants Last post by drowan, Jul 26, 2015

Norton

Discussion Starter · May 31, 2015

4

I used a DCFC for the first time while running errands this weekend. My town has 14 DCFC stations and dozens of L2's, all FREE !
Here are some pics of the 20 minute pitstop !

Start:

Car Vehicle Ford motor company Multimedia Ford

Thirsty little Spark EV sucking it up @44kW:

Vehicle Car Technology Electronic device

20 mins later:

Technology Car Vehicle Electronics Electronic device

Same price as a Tesla at a Supercharger, only less quantity:

Text Font Technology Electronics Screenshot

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This was at that big coffee purveyor, so I went in and bought a simple coffee and stared at my phone for awhile.

During the week I plug into an L2 to power the round trip. It is done by noon and I move it.
I may never spend a dime on powering this fun little car!
This is Living the Dream, Lite !!

I know about the Battery TMS and how it should be plugged in at <30° and >90° F.
But is it that harmful to drive the car gently until the cars TMS gets the battery temp happy?
There will always be long term parking situations where the car can't be plugged in, such as an airport.

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1 - 20 of 23 Posts

peterdaniel

· #2 · May 31, 2015

Gotta love the little Spark EV...

rob

· #3 · May 31, 2015

As a Volt owner without DCFC capability (but free access to a couple of them), color me jealous. I'd love to be able to pick up 40 miles of charge in 15 minutes.

llninja

· #4 · May 31, 2015

Aren't spark EVs only available in CA and OR in limited quantities? Did you buy one and ship it to KCMO or find one used?

adric22

· #5 · May 31, 2015

We have a Volt and a Leaf. We've done the fast-charging in our Leaf a few times. It is amazing each time we do it. But here's the honest truth. These days, if we are going out somewhere far enough away that would require a fast charge we'll generally just leave the Leaf at home and take the Volt. While the fast-charge is certainly a game changer within the BEV segment as it allows your BEV to be significantly more versatile, it is still no substitute for an ICE range extender. And being how rarely we run the ICE in the Volt (about once a month) it probably needs to run anyway otherwise I'd be getting that annoying engine maintenance mode.

llninja

· #6 · May 31, 2015

After just visiting the tesla showroom yesterday in Indianapolis, believe me, the spark doesn't even come close to the tesla... But I guess you get 1/4th the car at 1/4th the price. That said, I think I'm more interested in 1/2 the car at 1/2 the price, though I don't think the i3 quite cuts it. It's more like 1/3 of the tesla at 1/2 the price.

KGG

· #7 · May 31, 2015

I wish other parts of Missouri had similar charging options although with the limited commute for most it just doesn't make sense. For most of us the volt is really the perfect electric vehicle. Chevrolet really did their homework and provided the best possible transition to electric for the majority of drivers. I don't think this power train is a short term solution unless some major battery advance occurs in the near future.

Kevin

Norton

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 31, 2015 (Edited)

llninja said:
... the spark doesn't even come close to the tesla... But I guess you get 1/4th the car at 1/4th the price.... I don't think the i3 quite cuts it. It's more like 1/3 of the tesla at 1/2 the price.

Funny you brought up the i3. I have read that the Spark EV is as fast as the i3 in 0-60 and faster than the i3REX. Same EV range too.
Plus it is front wheel drive. I have to deal with winter. Both use the same new DCFC connector. It is only a $750 option on the Spark EV.

My Volt is gone and when I found a used Spark EV w/DCFC for less than the cost of almost any used Volt, I went for it !
Yes, it is a pretty minimalist Korean S-box. But the drive unit is made in Maryland and the battery pack is assembled in Detroit.
This is the meat of the matter. It puts a smile on my face when I pull away from the pack.
This thing NEEDS traction control working all the time. 400 ft/lbs of torque! I wouldn't be surprised if this is the drive unit that ends up in the Bolt.

I tell nerdy friends that if I wanted to electrify an old classic ICE car I couldn't buy a similar battery pack, drive unit, power control unit, charger, TMS, cabin AC/heat systems, etc. for the price I paid for this car.

Raymondjram

· #9 · May 31, 2015

llninja said:
After just visiting the tesla showroom yesterday in Indianapolis, believe me, the spark doesn't even come close to the tesla... But I guess you get 1/4th the car at 1/4th the price. That said, I think I'm more interested in 1/2 the car at 1/2 the price, though I don't think the i3 quite cuts it. It's more like 1/3 of the tesla at 1/2 the price.

The Spark EV is 1/2 of the Model S because it can seat four.

DonC

· #10 · May 31, 2015

adric22 said:
We have a Volt and a Leaf. We've done the fast-charging in our Leaf a few times. It is amazing each time we do it. But here's the honest truth. These days, if we are going out somewhere far enough away that would require a fast charge we'll generally just leave the Leaf at home and take the Volt. While the fast-charge is certainly a game changer within the BEV segment as it allows your BEV to be significantly more versatile, it is still no substitute for an ICE range extender. And being how rarely we run the ICE in the Volt (about once a month) it probably needs to run anyway otherwise I'd be getting that annoying engine maintenance mode.

+1. You've said it all. Even the Tesla DC chargers are pathetically slow when compared to a gas pump. 320 kWh/minute versus "up to" 2 kWh/minute. Sad but true.

BAZINGA

· #11 · Jun 1, 2015

We need more DC fast charging stations because what happens to that mid-range BEV owner needing a charge to get home or to his destination and the charger is inop. Then what?

The military in me has me asking those "what if" questions and if there isn't an answer than the BEV won't be making the trip. As an urban vehicle a 50 to 80 mile range BEV seems to be its natural environment. But I would not wander too far from home with the current state of EV charging infrastructure in place to handle those "what if" scenarios.

mczajka

· #12 · Jun 1, 2015

Can we talk a little more about temperature?

I had my Spark EV charging at a location on L2 over the weekend. It was basically baking in the hot sun for about 1.5 hours. The performance after that was not good - about 3 miles per kwh as I drove 5 miles to a party. In the evening when the sun went down, performance was fine.

Should I have preconditioned it or run it longer while plugged in?

ClarksonCote

· #13 · Jun 1, 2015

DonC said:
+1. You've said it all. Even the Tesla DC chargers are pathetically slow when compared to a gas pump. 320 kWh/minute versus "up to" 2 kWh/minute. Sad but true.

While the advantage still easily goes to gas, 320kWh per minute is slightly misleading. Yes, that's the gasoline going into the tank, but only 20% of that energy gets converted to mechanical energy in a car, in even the most efficient of engines.

So it's really 64kWh/minute versus 2kWh/minute, though still a good point DonC

viking79

· #14 · Jun 1, 2015

ClarksonCote said:
While the advantage still easily goes to gas, 320kWh per minute is slightly misleading. Yes, that's the gasoline going into the tank, but only 20% of that energy gets converted to mechanical energy in a car, in even the most efficient of engines.

So it's really 64kWh/minute versus 2kWh/minute, though still a good point DonC

New Prius has 40% thermal efficiency, which isn't too bad. Also, in the winter you can recover some of that 60-80% waste to use as heat. However, point is still the same. Any pump-able fuel has battery charging beat for "fill" up time.

Norton

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jun 1, 2015

mczajka said:
....I had my Spark EV charging at a location on L2 over the weekend. It was basically baking in the hot sun for about 1.5 hours. The performance after that was not good....
Should I have preconditioned it or run it longer while plugged in?

This is not good to hear. Was there a pop up msg saying 'reduced power due to temp', or any such thing?

It was my understanding that when plugged into any EVSE, even an [email protected] stock unit, that the battery pack TMS is supposed to take care of battery temperature.

I can see if it was outside at the Tucson airport for a week in the summer without being plugged in the system might limit power from the hot battery until TMS can cool it. I would hope it gives a msg when this is happening.

Norton

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jun 1, 2015

viking79 said:
New Prius has 40% thermal efficiency, which isn't too bad...

I just recently heard a podcast (Bill Nye?) talking about the ICE having 28% thermal efficiency as the limit due to the 'X? law of thermal dynamics'.
Whereas EV's use the power on board with 95% thermal efficiency.

How much more can be gotten from burning flammable vapors in a reciprocating engine?
That's a bold claim by Toyota.

Plus how much energy did it take to get that gallon of gas to your neighborhood gas pump from our buddies in OPEC?
You see 'X' kWh or Kcal or BTU of energy in a gallon of gas, but not the total amount it took to produce and deliver it.

rob

· #17 · Jun 1, 2015

viking79 said:
New Prius has 40% thermal efficiency, which isn't too bad. Also, in the winter you can recover some of that 60-80% waste to use as heat. However, point is still the same. Any pump-able fuel has battery charging beat for "fill" up time.

Most locales won't let you have a gas pump at your house. So long as it's charged by morning, I don't really care how long it takes. Road trips are another matter of course, but that's < 5% of my miles.

mikeg3

· #18 · Jun 3, 2015

Norton said:
This is not good to hear. Was there a pop up msg saying 'reduced power due to temp', or any such thing?

It was my understanding that when plugged into any EVSE, even an [email protected] stock unit, that the battery pack TMS is supposed to take care of battery temperature.

I can see if it was outside at the Tucson airport for a week in the summer without being plugged in the system might limit power from the hot battery until TMS can cool it. I would hope it gives a msg when this is happening.

I'm glad that someone else noticed that the Volt manual recommends that you stay plugged into an EVSE whenever possible.

There are several threads about EVSE courtesy suggesting that you unplug your Volt when it is fully charged. Where I live Summer temperatures top 100 degrees and I stay plugged in to fully support the TMS. Luckily, the local power company installs EVSEs in groups of four, so there is never a plug shortage. Even Whole Foods put in two and they have room for more if needed (I asked). Telling a business that the EVSEs are so popular that they needs more should be welcome news, especially for the employee who suggested them in the first place.

May I suggest that California Volt owners who charge at work ask their management to just add more units instead of mediating between EV owners. Even if it were not for the TMS issue, my work day on Wall St. (before retirement) was just too intense to do more at lunchtime than munch and work. I'm not being abstract - I personally got one EVSE cluster installed from scratch at work (and I was just a lowly adjunct) and I got another cluster on private property opened to the public.

Learn some office politics - it will help your career in many ways.

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Norton

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jun 3, 2015

mikeg3 said:
.....recommends that you stay plugged into an EVSE whenever possible.

But if the outside temp is not at extremes another line of thought says:
Li-ion batteries have the longest shelf life if they are stored around 40% SOC.
With my normal routine I can strive for this and never top up the battery pack.

llninja

· #20 · Jun 3, 2015

Norton said:
But if the outside temp is not at extremes another line of thought says:
Li-ion batteries have the longest shelf life if they are stored around 40% SOC.
With my normal routine I can strive for this and never top up the battery pack.

Don't top off a leaf. I wouldn't worry about the volt. When it shows 100% on he dial, it's really much less. Not sure what the spark does.

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