GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Surprised no one post this yet, Telsa now has a 100kWh pack. Some existing owners can even retrofit it (for $20k, ha).

Wish more companies constantly pushed range and retrofit options like this...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,661 Posts
Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way. Don't know where Tesla will be in 5 or 10 years, but you have to give them credit. They are ALL IN on EV's and it shows.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,013 Posts
Battery development must be paid by selling cars--lot's of them. Retrofitting old cars, nice for Tesla, won't work for manufacturers whose EV sales are already minuscule. But your old battery won't go to waste. Already SC Edison has a battery-based peaker plant using retired ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
902 Posts
A 100-kW battery pack is still worthless if you are parked at a trailhead near a wilderness boundary without even a 120-volt outlet. I only saw a couple of Tesla stations listed throughout Wyoming, Montana, Alberta, and Idaho. These are typically at universities or hotels. At 3-kW charging per hour, I would be parked for 33 hours to charge a Tesla off a trickle-charge outlet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,661 Posts
Yes we can all find places a Tesla can't go, but that could have been said about the "horseless carriage" 100 years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,890 Posts
I̶'̶m̶ ̶a̶ ̶T̶e̶s̶l̶a̶ ̶f̶a̶n̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶l̶e̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶t̶e̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶m̶a̶r̶k̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶e̶c̶h̶n̶o̶l̶o̶g̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶b̶r̶e̶a̶k̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶.̶ ̶ ̶I̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶T̶e̶s̶l̶a̶ ̶d̶e̶v̶e̶l̶o̶p̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶i̶m̶p̶r̶o̶v̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶c̶h̶e̶m̶i̶s̶t̶r̶y̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶.̶ ̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶y̶'̶r̶e̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶s̶l̶i̶g̶h̶t̶l̶y̶-̶m̶o̶r̶e̶-̶e̶n̶e̶r̶g̶y̶-̶d̶e̶n̶s̶e̶,̶ ̶s̶l̶i̶g̶h̶t̶l̶y̶-̶m̶o̶r̶e̶-̶e̶x̶p̶e̶n̶s̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶c̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶P̶a̶n̶a̶s̶o̶n̶i̶c̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶q̶u̶e̶e̶z̶e̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶k̶W̶h̶'̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶p̶a̶c̶k̶.̶ ̶ ̶1̶0̶0̶k̶W̶h̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶n̶i̶c̶e̶ ̶r̶o̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶n̶u̶m̶b̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶b̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶m̶i̶l̶e̶s̶t̶o̶n̶e̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶.̶

Edit: Nevermind my previous statement. ItsNotAboutTheMoney points out in post #11 (http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?254602-Tesla-hits-100kWh!&p=3563306#post3563306) that the 100kWh pack doesn't actually use a different, higher-capacity cell like I assumed (unlike all of Tesla's previous battery pack configurations). Instead the cells are packaged more densely, which Tesla describes as having required significant engineering work: https://electrek.co/2016/08/23/tesla-100-kwh-battery-pack-quickest-car-ever/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,340 Posts
A 100-kW battery pack is still worthless if you are parked at a trailhead near a wilderness boundary without even a 120-volt outlet. I only saw a couple of Tesla stations listed throughout Wyoming, Montana, Alberta, and Idaho. These are typically at universities or hotels. At 3-kW charging per hour, I would be parked for 33 hours to charge a Tesla off a trickle-charge outlet.
You do realize the 315 miles of range on the new Model S is right in line with the ~300 miles of range you get out of a 1st gen Chevy Volt, right (gas plus battery)?

A 315 mile radius circle is pretty damn big. Is Wyoming 630 miles across? ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,464 Posts
You do realize the 315 miles of range on the new Model S is right in line with the ~300 miles of range you get out of a 1st gen Chevy Volt, right (gas plus battery)?

A 315 mile radius circle is pretty damn big. Is Wyoming 630 miles across? ;)
Um, 300 miles of range in a Gen 1 would only happen under adverse driving conditions; conditions under which a 100 kWh Model S wouldn't be able to achieve even 250 miles. Heck, baseline EPA ratings would result in at least 360 miles of range for a 2010 Volt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,520 Posts
I'm a Tesla fan, but let's not pretend that this is some remarkable technological breakthrough here. It's not as if Tesla developed a new improved battery chemistry or anything. They're just using a newer, slightly-more-energy-dense, slightly-more-expensive cell from Panasonic to squeeze more kWh's into their pack. 100kWh is a nice round number and maybe a notable milestone, but that's all it is.
Apparently, it's the same _cell_. They've redesigned the battery to allow them to fit more cells in the same volume. That redesign will likely have come as part of the Model 3 engineering.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I'm a Tesla fan, but let's not pretend that this is some remarkable technological breakthrough here. It's not as if Tesla developed a new improved battery chemistry or anything. They're just using a newer, slightly-more-energy-dense, slightly-more-expensive cell from Panasonic to squeeze more kWh's into their pack. 100kWh is a nice round number and maybe a notable milestone, but that's all it is.
Not a tech breakthrough, no, but shows how committed they are to pushing things forward. Most other EVs have kept the same battery (with no range options) for YEARS... looking at you Nissan. GM gets some credit for tweaking Volt capacity every few years. Tesla continuously upgrades theirs and releases it when it's ready, not waiting for another model year. I believe they've said they plan on regular 3-5% capacity bumps as their tech improves. I hope this pushes the rest of the industry to follow...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,340 Posts
Um, 300 miles of range in a Gen 1 would only happen under adverse driving conditions; conditions under which a 100 kWh Model S wouldn't be able to achieve even 250 miles. Heck, baseline EPA ratings would result in at least 360 miles of range for a 2010 Volt.
Then maybe my 2014 Volt is always driven in adverse conditions. When I fill up the gas tank, it says 251 miles gas range, and I might have seen the battery gauge say 40 miles, once. I'm the original owner of this car, too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,081 Posts
And GM did it for less than $40k and 4+ years ago. Here, Tesla did it at 3x the price, which frankly, is no real accomplishment.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
2,356 Posts
You do realize the 315 miles of range on the new Model S is right in line with the ~300 miles of range you get out of a 1st gen Chevy Volt, right (gas plus battery)?

A 315 mile radius circle is pretty damn big. Is Wyoming 630 miles across? ;)
Apples and oranges. You're comparing the EPA rating of the S to your individual "mileage may vary" with the Volt. EPA rating of a 2014 Volt is 380 miles.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=33900

How about Tesla's refueling time? Does it match the Volt's 4000 miles per hour yet? :)

That's before we get into the incongruity of comparing a $135,000 car to a $35,000 car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
And GM did it for less than $40k and 4+ years ago. Here, Tesla did it at 3x the price, which frankly, is no real accomplishment.
Are you referring to range? ICE miles != electric ones... are you really comparing a Volt's overall range to the Tesla's AER? Why not just compare them to a VW TDI that goes 600 miles and say they both suck? The Volt is a great compromise, but full time all-electric miles are important to some people... and the company (that pushed GM to develop the Volt) with most electric range just bumped their numbers even higher. I don't get why EV enthusiasts here want to diminish that...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,634 Posts
A 315 mile radius circle is pretty damn big. Is Wyoming 630 miles across? ;)
No, but it is about 440 corner to corner. You could run into issues making a tour of Yellowstone, Tetons, Devils Tower, etc. People forget in that area it can easily be 90 miles between services (can be a problem for gas if not careful). I remember driving from Laramie to Casper on a Christmas and nothing was open for 150 miles. Keeping in mind -50 wind chill and it can be an issue. Don't go anywhere without a full tank in those situations.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
19,968 Posts
I believe they've said they plan on regular 3-5% capacity bumps as their tech improves. I hope this pushes the rest of the industry to follow...
3-5% is the historical rate of battery improvement. Actually, I think its more like 5-7%. Regardless, what they are saying is their battery tech will at least keep pace with the broader battery tech developments. So not really special or unique in that respect.,
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,213 Posts
A 100-kW battery pack is still worthless if you are parked at a trailhead near a wilderness boundary without even a 120-volt outlet. I only saw a couple of Tesla stations listed throughout Wyoming, Montana, Alberta, and Idaho. These are typically at universities or hotels. At 3-kW charging per hour, I would be parked for 33 hours to charge a Tesla off a trickle-charge outlet.
I'm confused by your "couple" statement as I went to northern MT a couple months back and used more than a couple just in MT. I found a Tesla owner in Great Falls, MT that allowed me to charge otherwise I would have went to a campground and used their 50 amp plug. It was like $5 when I called them. Looks like they are adding a supercharger to Great Falls, MT and Shelby, MT (which leads into Canada).

Current:



Expected by the end of 2016:
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top