[Qinsp]

First the price of some options were adjusted upwards.
Then it was to roll supercharging into a mandatory option, then to limit 'free' use.
Next, it is removing the 60kWh option since it ships with a more expensive 75kWh physical battery.
Now, the Model 3 will not have AWD as an option at first.

Per Elon Musk, the Model 3 will have a shorter range, less power, less features, less room, and less options than the Model S. AWD will not be available in the initial release according to Musk.

This is NOT bad news. It is what many of us predicted from the start. Tesla needed to increase their margins and lower their operating costs. And they will have to focus on producing a Model 3 as cheaply as possible. However, rabid fans of the Model 3 have been putting out claims that the Model 3 is not going to be lesser car than the Model S.

I'm still not sure the Model 3 will be under $42,500 before Fed Incentive. It will be close if they must include supercharging costs and AP2 hardware on all versions. It will still be a bargain, just not priced lower than it can be actually produced at.

 

[Bacardi]

Agree with everything except the price...Also SC will be enabled but you will most likely need to buy SC kWh or they may offer free kWhs when bundled with certain options...

The general consensus from even the most delusional Tesla cheerleaders is that the days of the $35K are already numbered the only question is when it'll be axed...One popular theory is during the production reveal they will announce you will have a limited time (1-3 months) to lock-in at $35K or whatever the pure base version is...Also it is a popular theory that you can keep the MSRP $35K but only have one interior choice (gray cloth) and one included paint color (black)...Lastly I think they could increase destination charge which is currently $1200 for the S/X, they could sneakily raise that to $1500 or even $1995 for the M3 but still proclaim it's a $35K MSRP...

 

[Qinsp]

If I were Elon Musk, I'd get creative before abandoning the $35,000 Model 3.

Sell them with a body wrap with paid advertising from select advertisers on them. Nothing tacky, not a NASCAR clone.

 

[DrMiguelitoLoveless]

First the price of some options were adjusted upwards.
Then it was to roll supercharging into a mandatory option, then to limit 'free' use.
Next, it is removing the 60kWh option since it ships with a more expensive 75kWh physical battery.
Now, the Model 3 will not have AWD as an option at first.

Per Elon Musk, the Model 3 will have a shorter range, less power, less features, less room, and less options than the Model S. AWD will not be available in the initial release according to Musk.

Do you have a link to a story or post?

The base M3 was always going to have lesser specs than the MS. Also, the plan is that the first M3s off the assembly line will be going to Tesla employees/investors, then the general public. I think dropping the 60 and starting at the 75 is a move to further distinguish the MS from the M3. the M3 was always supposed to be smaller and cheaper, that kind of was the point. As to SC access, Tesla started making noises about limiting that a while back. It has not been eliminated completely, just scaled back to "x kWhs" for free every year (for vacation driving) and then charging people who use it daily.

I hang on the Tesla forums (and other EV sites) and haven't read much claiming that the M3 was going to be an equal of the MS. I am pretty certain that there will be a $35K base M3, but by the time you add the most desirable options (AWD, AP2, bigger battery), the price will definitely creep North of $40K, with $42.5K being the most quoted sweet spot (before tax credits). That is still less than the base MS60 current price of $68K.

And you are correct, it will be all about margins now. But, I think the quickest way to a lot of cancelled sales would be for the starting price to be above that of the Bolt. Given that the Bolt came in with a 238 mile EPA range, I am guessing Musk is going to squeeze miles more out of the pack just so he can reclaim the superior range spec from Chevy.

 

[Taser54]

Tesla's aspirational goal of July Production of fully optioned Model 3's appears to in trouble: No AWD initially available; Skipping the Beta testing phase or shall I say foisting beta testing on employees who ordered.

This is like that dream where a student wakes up one morning, remembers that he has an exam that day in class that he registered for, but never attended. Whatever happens, it's gonna hurt.

 

[Qinsp]

Do you have a link to a story or post?

The base M3 was always going to have lesser specs than the MS. Also, the plan is that the first M3s off the assembly line will be going to Tesla employees/investors, then the general public. I think dropping the 60 and starting at the 75 is a move to further distinguish the MS from the M3. the M3 was always supposed to be smaller and cheaper, that kind of was the point. As to SC access, Tesla started making noises about limiting that a while back. It has not been eliminated completely, just scaled back to "x kWhs" for free every year (for vacation driving) and then charging people who use it daily.

I hang on the Tesla forums (and other EV sites) and haven't read much claiming that the M3 was going to be an equal of the MS. I am pretty certain that there will be a $35K base M3, but by the time you add the most desirable options (AWD, AP2, bigger battery), the price will definitely creep North of $40K, with $42.5K being the most quoted sweet spot (before tax credits). That is still less than the base MS60 current price of $68K.

And you are correct, it will be all about margins now. But, I think the quickest way to a lot of cancelled sales would be for the starting price to be above that of the Bolt. Given that the Bolt came in with a 238 mile EPA range, I am guessing Musk is going to squeeze miles more out of the pack just so he can reclaim the superior range spec from Chevy.

It was on Twitter by Elon Musk very recently.

I do not see the Model 3 as a competitor to the 2017 Bolt EV. I doubt there will be a lot of cross shopping. The Tesla EV brand name has value today. Chevrolet, not so much. Tesla is aiming at ICE Audi and BMW buyers, Chevrolet is aimed at Prius, Leaf, Ford EV/PHEV, and i3 buyers. Different kind of buyer.

If GM was intent on aiming towards the ICE Audi and BMW buyers, it probably would have carried the Buick or Cadillac badging, and be less utilitarian in design, and more fashion focused.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Tesla's aspirational goal of July Production of fully optioned Model 3's appears to in trouble: No AWD initially available; Skipping the Beta testing phase or shall I say foisting beta testing on employees who ordered.

This is like that dream where a student wakes up one morning, remembers that he has an exam that day in class that he registered for, but never attended. Whatever happens, it's gonna hurt.

It was expected that they'd skip AWD for the first deliveries, and Elon Musk had also said that have initial cars would have likely _some_ features missing.

But with those limitations it's still expected that the first cars will be sold with the largest available battery, highest available performance and loaded with all the available options.

 

[DonC]

I have no inside information on the pricing but it seems to me that eliminating the low end Model S telegraphs where the top end of the Model 3 will be. My guess is a minimum of $50K, which I think may not even be the minimum of where Tesla needs to be without the ZEV credits. All decked out might hit $60K. I've thought for a long time that the base Model S would be a much better idea than a decked out Model 3, and I doubt this insight was unique.

No doubt the pricing will disappoint some but you can't lose money on every car and make it up on volume, though at $40K I believe Tesla would have a positive margin even without the ZEV credits.

Tesla's entire fee structure for charging -- or perhaps the lack of a structure -- has created a mess. You can't provide enough of any good or service if it's free. Tesla might have to do some work on the software side but charging per incident would solve a host of issues.

The lack of AWD might be a problem for some. For a FWD car the lack of AWD is not much of an issue, but personally I'd greatly prefer AWD to RWD for the occasional inclement weather. The lack of AWD may also suggest lower power and 0-60 MPH times. If you have unlimited power traction becomes the limiting factor. Since four wheels in contact with the road surface helps, not having that option suggests the motor(s) may be the limiting factor.

But with those limitations it's still expected that the first cars will be sold with the largest available battery, highest available performance and loaded with all the available options.

This would seem to be a certainty. Several reasons for this. One is that Tesla will want to take advantage of a higher margin. Two is that the ZEV rules are changing and Tesla might be able to get more credits for longer range cars. Third is that the federal tax credits will go away at some point and using the credits for higher margin cars make more sense than using them of lower margin copies. Probably a few more reasons as well.

 

[Taser54]

It was expected that they'd skip AWD for the first deliveries, and Elon Musk had also said that have initial cars would have likely _some_ features missing.

I disagree. The omission of AWD at start of production was JUST announced by Elon and the responses from Model 3 fans indicate that they did not expect this.

 

[Bacardi]

Tesla's aspirational goal of July Production of fully optioned Model 3's appears to in trouble: No AWD initially available; Skipping the Beta testing phase or shall I say foisting beta testing on employees who ordered.

This is like that dream where a student wakes up one morning, remembers that he has an exam that day in class that he registered for, but never attended. Whatever happens, it's gonna hurt.

You also have to wonder how many coworkers will immediately sell, you'd imagine the first thousand customers would receive some incredible offers, I'm sure $10K+ over whatever they paid won't be uncommon...

 

[16513]

Reality strikes. I think GM had the same thought processes with Bolt EV, having withheld some important goodies like ACC and 4wd, etc. You can bet that the 2018 or 2018 1/2 Bolts are beyond final planning and will have sweeteners to offset the hype of Model 3 and the new Leaf.
It is good to be a part of this rapidly evolving market.

 

[KenC]

So it's stripped down to meet some arbitrary price promise Elon made. And the actual models sold will be loaded back up with an average price much higher. Yep.

 

[hellsop]

Reality strikes. I think GM had the same thought processes with Bolt EV, having withheld some important goodies like ACC and 4wd, etc.

Where'd you see GM ever promising 4WD on the Bolt?

And I see GM specifically DENYING ACC here: http://insideevs.com/exclusive-inside-the-chevrolet-bolt-with-its-chief-engineer-new-details/

 

[Bacardi]

So it's stripped down to meet some arbitrary price promise Elon made. And the actual models sold will be loaded back up with an average price much higher. Yep.

But that's how the rest of the automotive world works...GM said themselves that after they allowed Bolt EV dealer ordering 90% opted to add DCFC and 50% were Premieres...

 

[Bacardi]

Reality strikes. I think GM had the same thought processes with Bolt EV, having withheld some important goodies like ACC and 4wd, etc. You can bet that the 2018 or 2018 1/2 Bolts are beyond final planning and will have sweeteners to offset the hype of Model 3 and the new Leaf.
It is good to be a part of this rapidly evolving market.

If they added vented power memory seats, "home link", ACC and 4wd/AWD it wouldn't make that big of a difference in sales (no way it would double) and I'm the option/feature guy...I do think it would be a good idea to both showcase their abilities and take away from the T3 hype, but the T3 has proved styling matters, GM should take all of their EV engineering resources and start working on Model Y competitor or a mid size SUV with AWD and ground clearance...Whether they want an all new platform or to just EV the ICE Equinox like they did to the ICE Spark that should be their focus...

 

[Belgin]

I understand they are forgoing Beta testing of cars instead opting for software simulations. Like I said before they are letting the customers be Beta testers of their purchased cars. Musk has as many spins on reality as Trump.

 

[sparks]

I understand they are forgoing Beta testing of cars instead opting for software simulations. Like I said before they are letting the customers be Beta testers of their purchased cars. Musk has as many spins on reality as Trump.

Please, no politics. There are plenty of spins on reality on all sides. A prime example, "The Russians hacked the election!" Yea, right. LOL, thanks to American politics, I believe humankind is now on the verge of the Bull$hit Singularity. (Apologies to Ray Kurzweil.)

 

[Bluesideup]

Wait all I heard on this forum is how they will never sell the base 35K model first and anyone who wants one for that price will have to wait a long time as all the first production models will be the top of the line only. Now that they are obviously selling the base 35K model first all I hear is how horrible it is that they are waiting to put the extra features on it.

Even going so far as DonC who seems to have a rather large dislike of Tesla saying that they are losing money on their cars that are selling under $40k with no actual knowledge of what it cost to build or the advances in batteries that the gigafactory will bring but somehow the Bolt that is being discounted $5,000 is still a money maker for GM?

 

[Bacardi]

Wait all I heard on this forum is how they will never sell the base 35K model first and anyone who wants one for that price will have to wait a long time as all the first production models will be the top of the line only. Now that they are obviously selling the base 35K model first all I hear is how horrible it is that they are waiting to put the extra features on it.

Even going so far as DonC who seems to have a rather large dislike of Tesla saying that they are losing money on their cars that are selling under $40k with no actual knowledge of what it cost to build or the advances in batteries that the gigafactory will bring but somehow the Bolt that is being discounted $5,000 is still a money maker for GM?

Agree with every except the discounting...That is a dealer discount...A better example would be the Volt, last July it was GM, not the dealership discounting, offer 20% off cashback...

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I disagree. The omission of AWD at start of production was JUST announced by Elon and the responses from Model 3 fans indicate that they did not expect this.

Well, I'm surprised at those Model 3 fans who are surprised. Unlike when Tesla first released the S, the current Performance S and X models from Tesla now have AWD with a "full" rear motor and a "half" front motor. The regular D has "half" and "half".

So, assuming the 3's Ps and Ds will follow the same approach as the current S and X, P and D add components and complexity and that would delay release, and it's more important for Tesla to release early than to release the P and D first, especially given that the RWD-only period will be during the early ramp and that Tesla won't have any competition for the S and X Ps and Ds until next year at the soonest.

I think Tesla will likely try to go 375, 375D, P375D, 355D (assuming 55kWh for the base), 355. My reservation was pre-launch but online, so (assuming Tesla even meets utility and price targets) depending on option pricing I could well have a tax credit calculation that would make me jump from the 355 into a 375 or 355D. A lot would depend on whether Tesla bundles some extra performance in with the 75kWh battery option.