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The logic in the article doesn't wash. They talk about getting free power as a reason not to build solar, but Tesla isn't getting it for free - they get it for 30% off the first couple years, then the discount goes down.

I could see that being an argument for not putting solar up right away, but it certainly isn't a reason to scrap the plan entirely.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)


Nothing yet. Some takeaways from the article for me were....

The roof isn't big enough for their needs. More panels will be needed in the surrounding hills. This is not shown in the renderings.

Panasonic's alleged effect on battery production, which wasn't on-topic but was illuminating.

The effect utility power hiccups have on production which I would guess are a motivation to add some solar/battery capability. So get started already?
 

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The logic in the article doesn't wash. They talk about getting free power as a reason not to build solar, but Tesla isn't getting it for free - they get it for 30% off the first couple years, then the discount goes down.

I could see that being an argument for not putting solar up right away, but it certainly isn't a reason to scrap the plan entirely.
The reason is Tesla's lack of unencumbered money...:rolleyes:
 

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Exactly, don't put up solar on the gigafactory until they have some spare cash or capacity of solar panels.
Ah...they won't have unencumbered money until they go through Chapter 11 or 7 or 13...:rolleyes:

Expect Musk to be doing a cash raise real soon now...under the guise of starting up the Tesla Semi, Hyperloop, et cetera...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Since the Solyndra-esque failure of Project Whitney Solar City doesn't have any Silevo products they can use.

To reach the 100-megawatt goal, sources indicate that the pilot production line in Fremont would eventually need to yield between 800 to 1,000 high-efficiency Whitney panels per day. But the team was not able to automate the process consistently enough to produce more than dozens of Whitney panels per day, according to people familiar with the matter. Most of the production resulted in “scrap,” they say. “The big problem was simply that they couldn’t scale up the technology to the point where you could run it in a factory,” a source familiar with the development explains. A spokesperson for SolarCity acknowledges that the company ran into issues with some of its automation equipment, but says this was “not necessarily” due to its cell technology.

Multiple sources also claim that even the Whitney panels that did make it through the automation process in Fremont were not reliable enough for the market. Normally, solar panels are designed to last several decades on rooftops, but according to these sources, in early 2016, the Whitney panels failed internal tests that determined whether they met industry-standard longevity. SolarCity decided to go ahead with installing trials on around 70 customer roofs. But in many cases, the Whitney panels lasted just weeks before malfunctioning, and later needed to be removed, according to two sources familiar with the matter. (A SolarCity spokesperson says the trial deployments generated data that have since helped improve the product, and that its customers were reimbursed for any lost solar production.)

To date, there are just roughly five customer homes still equipped with Whitney panels.
Oh my, they even used an old Solyndra building. Ironic.

Can Elon Musk Get SolarCity’s Gigafactory Back On Track?

I seem to have a knack for finding really long articles today.

Now that Tesla/Solar city has moved in on Silevo's deal with New York and Panasonic has taken over the lion's share of PV production in Buffalo with their own products things could change.

According to Tesla’s blog post, the factory will produce Panasonic’s “high-efficiency PV cells and modules” and Panasonic will invest over $256 million in the Buffalo factory
New York’s Bet on Silevo’s Solar Technology Fails to Deliver

Maybe.....
 

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Why can't any of the US based solar installer companies install residential solar PV as cheap as that of Japan or Australia and still make a profit? These places, the installed price of solar is about $2/Watt before subsidies! If Tesla can't install them profitably at $2/Watt, they should get out of this business.
 

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Why can't any of the US based solar installer companies install residential solar PV as cheap as that of Japan or Australia and still make a profit? These places, the installed price of solar is about $2/Watt before subsidies! If Tesla can't install them profitably at $2/Watt, they should get out of this business.
Because their business model includes the Government tax credits as an integral part...rather than as a perk...:(

The other event was the precipitous drop in panel prices that they did NOT account for...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-china-is-dominating-the-solar-industry/
 

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Because their business model includes the Government tax credits as an integral part...rather than as a perk...:(

The other event was the precipitous drop in panel prices that they did NOT account for...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-china-is-dominating-the-solar-industry/
China is dominating the solar industry because they make cheap Solar PV panels. My main concern with cheap Solar Panels from China is that their manufacturers are so volatile that they just go through dissolutions or bankruptcies like a revolving door, dissolving the old one and making new ones with almost the same people. Even if they promised lifetime manufacturer warranty, how good is that when the listed manufacturer is gone within a year or two?
 

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China is dominating the solar industry because they make cheap Solar PV panels. My main concern with cheap Solar Panels from China is that their manufacturers are so volatile that they just go through dissolutions or bankruptcies like a revolving door, dissolving the old one and making new ones with almost the same people. Even if they promised lifetime manufacturer warranty, how good is that when the listed manufacturer is gone within a year or two?
That is not taking into consideration WHO are the top ten Solar Panel Maufacturers in the world...

In fact, six of the 10 manufacturers ranked by IHS are Chinese (if you count Canadian Solar which, though based in Canada, has its manufacturing base in China). The two biggest American solar panel makers, First Solar and SunPower, also made the list.

Here is the IHS ranking:

1. Trina Solar

2. Yingli Green Energy

3. Canadian Solar

4. Jinko Solar

5. JA Solar

6. Sharp Solar

7. Renesola

8. First Solar

9. Hanwha SolarOne

10. SunPower and Kyocera


The companies on the list really haven't changed in the past four years even though the solar manufacturing industry suffered through a downturn caused by an oversupply of solar panels. That glut prompted large companies to cut production or shelve factory building plans and forced smaller manufacturers to file for bankruptcy.

https://www.ihs.com/index.html

Here a free article on IHS analysis for 2015...
https://www.ihs.com/pdf/Top-Solar-Power-Industry-Trends-for-2015_213963110915583632.pdf
 

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The logic in the article doesn't wash. They talk about getting free power as a reason not to build solar, but Tesla isn't getting it for free - they get it for 30% off the first couple years, then the discount goes down.

I could see that being an argument for not putting solar up right away, but it certainly isn't a reason to scrap the plan entirely.
Looks like it has started.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-...ing-world-s-largest-solar-roof/article/516530



 

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I believe I read somewhere that there are Tesla customers waiting for their solar roof products. Perhaps Tesla needs to concentrate on getting these orders filled before they worry so much about getting their gigafactory covered.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
LOL.... “solar Gigafactory”.

Tesla claims it already has a “solar Gigafactory”, known as Gigafactory 2 in Buffalo, New York where they manufacture solar products. However, Gigafactory 2 is powered by hydroelectricity — which, in all fairness is a renewable source of electricity.
The first question to come to mind....

Electtrek [sp] writes they would like to know if "Tesla is using its own new Panasonic solar modules manufactured at Gigafactory 2 in Buffalo, creating some new synergy between Tesla’s two gigafactories?"
Electrek beat me to it! :( Chinese panels?
 

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LOL.... “solar Gigafactory”.



The first question to come to mind....



Electrek beat me to it! :( Chinese panels?
The "Gigafactory" in Buffalo is "Giga" in name only...:rolleyes:
 

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I believe I read somewhere that there are Tesla customers waiting for their solar roof products. Perhaps Tesla needs to concentrate on getting these orders filled before they worry so much about getting their gigafactory covered.
These are not the same solar panels vs solar roof shingles. Why wouldn't a company use/verify/etc their own product? Would that also not fulfill plans and save them money in the long run?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
The "Gigafactory" in Buffalo is "Giga" in name only...:rolleyes:
Maybe this is part of the reason.





EneregySage: Tesla solar roof cost vs. solar panels: worth the premium?

$8K for a new shingle roof, or $50.9K for a Tesla shingle roof. That's if I'm re-roofing.

That's like "Should I buy the Chevy Impala or the Koenigsegg Agera for getting to work?" Sure the Agera gives me a lot more driving pleasure, but......

For either one (and solar panels are the more cost effective buy) if I want to use them at night when I consume the most power, I'll need some serious batteries too. Not sure if that's factored in here. I tend to skim these articles, since I'm not in the market with this McMansion I live in.
 

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Maybe this is part of the reason.





EneregySage: Tesla solar roof cost vs. solar panels: worth the premium?

$8K for a new shingle roof, or $50.9K for a Tesla shingle roof. That's if I'm re-roofing.

That's like "Should I buy the Chevy Impala or the Koenigsegg Agera for getting to work?" Sure the Agera gives me a lot more driving pleasure, but......

For either one (and solar panels are the more cost effective buy) if I want to use them at night when I consume the most power, I'll need some serious batteries too. Not sure if that's factored in here. I tend to skim these articles, since I'm not in the market with this McMansion I live in.
Why is this article comparing the cost of a much less durable, much less attractive asphalt shingle roof to the Tesla roof?

It should really be comparing to a slate or tile roof that resembles the appearance and durability the Tesla roof is supposed to provide...
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Why is this article comparing the cost of a much less durable, much less attractive asphalt shingle roof to the Tesla roof?
The vast majority of homes are asphalt shingles, for one. The there's.....

You might expect to pay as much as 20 times the cost of an asphalt roof for a slate roof.
..........
Another big difference between these two types of roofing materials is in the installation process. An asphalt roof is much easier to install than a slate roof. With a good roofing crew, you could potentially have a new asphalt roof installed in one day. In some cases, it might take a weekend to finish the project. It will take a longer to install a slate roof and you have to find a crew that is skilled in installing this type of system as it is a more difficult process.
..............
These two types of materials differ greatly in how much they weigh. Asphalt shingles are very light compared to slate roofing tiles. if you plan on installing a slate roof, you need to make sure that the frame of the house can support the weight or the material. Otherwise, you could run into serious problems where the roof actually collapses under the weight. In other cases, the roof will flex and cause the slate tiles to crack. This weight factor also contributes to the difficult installation of a slate tile roof.
So they're just talking what people would do.

The point of the site's comparison is solar panels vs. solar shingles. The cost of the asphalt shingles is ancillary.

It should really be comparing to a slate or tile roof that resembles the appearance and durability the Tesla roof is supposed to provide...
Some slate roofs can last as long as 175 years.
I don't know of anything solar that is supposed to last that long, or even longer than an asphalt shingle roof (both IIRC are about 25 years). The solar tiles/shingles/panels might still be there in 175 years, but they won't be putting out any juice.

https://www.doityourself.com/stry/asphalt-roof-vs-slate-roof

Composite slate or tile roofs might cost and weigh less, and each has its own issues. You can't walk on a tile roof without breaking it. That's a real problem when you have leaks around roof fixtures.

Ask me how I know this.
 

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Why is this article comparing the cost of a much less durable, much less attractive asphalt shingle roof to the Tesla roof?

It should really be comparing to a slate or tile roof that resembles the appearance and durability the Tesla roof is supposed to provide...
Have you ever seen solar panels installed on a slate roof??

The installers here in Vermont were dead set against doing that type of installation...:(...they wanted to go with positonal tracking ground units for homes with slate roofs
 
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